Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

Started Mar 1, 2007 | Discussions
Anthony Medici Veteran Member • Posts: 5,725
Re: Excellent analysis!

Osku wrote:

Thom Hogan wrote:

pixels than I'd get by switching to a 1DsII (yes, I know that will
trigger some response; to peempt that: simple answer, 3x2 panos at
five exposures run through Autopano Pro).

Ok, so how do you keep this setup leveled? I assume the leveling
should be between the two rows. (I have so far used single row
stitching for that reason). Do you down sample the shot at the same
time to make up for the need to control those distortions? (10-20
%?)

If you look at Autopano Pro, you'll see that the images do not need to overlap perfectly. It is quite capable of joining images with minor movement since it was made to join images using different focal lengths.

But if you want close, I'd suggest you looking at the Really Right Stuff website. They have heads, clamps and plates that are designed to help with taking Pano images. http://www.reallyrightstuff.com

 Anthony Medici's gear list:Anthony Medici's gear list
Nikon D800E Nikon D7100 Nikon 1 AW1 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 500mm f/4G ED VR +1 more
Jimmy86 Regular Member • Posts: 153
YEAH!! and 3 focus areas and Manual focusing on some lenses!

qwerty

 Jimmy86's gear list:Jimmy86's gear list
Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED
Thom Hogan Forum Pro • Posts: 13,659
Re: Excellent analysis!

Osku wrote:

Thom Hogan wrote:

pixels than I'd get by switching to a 1DsII (yes, I know that will
trigger some response; to peempt that: simple answer, 3x2 panos at
five exposures run through Autopano Pro).

Ok, so how do you keep this setup leveled? I assume the leveling
should be between the two rows. (I have so far used single row
stitching for that reason). Do you down sample the shot at the same
time to make up for the need to control those distortions? (10-20
%?)

What Tony said. Though you may need to pay attention to order if there's any possible movement in the subject.

But the proper way to do it is to rotate around the entry point of the lens in both axes if you can.

-- hide signature --

Thom Hogan
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70s, D80, D100, D200, D1 series, D2 series
http://www.bythom.com

Rod 10 Regular Member • Posts: 101
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

I'll stick with the D80 and backup D 50,,Thank you very much..................

Thom Hogan Forum Pro • Posts: 13,659
Re: Excellent analysis!

Perry Jacobs wrote:

I don't think most great photographs communicate only observation,
if that is what you meant to imply.

No, I didn't. If all it took was good analysis, all analysts would be great photographers. And I think I said "photographers" not "photographs."

-- hide signature --

Thom Hogan
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70s, D80, D100, D200, D1 series, D2 series
http://www.bythom.com

Osku Veteran Member • Posts: 3,985
Re: Excellent analysis!

Thom Hogan wrote:

What Tony said. Though you may need to pay attention to order if
there's any possible movement in the subject.

I have done stitching with 12 shots in a row. There are many aspects other than movement one needs to take care of, but I know you know those too (at least as well as I do).

But the proper way to do it is to rotate around the entry point of
the lens in both axes if you can.

That is not the problem (I have the RRS pano-kit for that purpose) just wondering what kind of leveling setup you have with your (ball?)head. I use mostly only the panoramic plate on top of my 1228-LVL, no head at all. Markins M10 allows me to rotate it if needed, and it is relatively easy to first level and then turn it down almost half the frame, and then upwards same amount (over the leveling plane). But that gives more distortion that the stitching program needs to fix (compared to keeping the frame in level and shooting only one set of "portrait"-frames instead of "landscapes"). And the more it fixes the result the more resolution is lost.

-- hide signature --

Osku

 Osku's gear list:Osku's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Nikon D800 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG Aspherical HSM +4 more
Osku Veteran Member • Posts: 3,985
Re: Excellent analysis!

Anthony Medici wrote:

If you look at Autopano Pro, you'll see that the images do not need
to overlap perfectly. It is quite capable of joining images with
minor movement since it was made to join images using different
focal lengths.

I am familiar with PTGui. The point was not how to make the frames overlap (I can do that even without my tripod...), but to minimize the need for the converter (stitcher) to correct perspective problems due far-from-perfect leveling. You see, if I shoot one row with my leveling panoramic plate, I get a row that is perfectly leveled and I can actually stitch those perfectly in PS if need be. But if I do 2 rows like Thom wrote he does, I need to first level, then distort until I will get the leveled "line" still in the frame, and then take all horizontal frames in one row, and then take the other row with same amount of rotation to the opposite direction. That way both lines of frames will be distorted (hey, I am shooting buildings mostly, needs to be leveled perfectly in the end), and the stitcher fixes the distortion. Fine. But if I want to keep the resolution real, not strongly upsampled in many areas (of each frame), there comes a question of how much to downsample to keep the resolution "real".

Ok, I can take also one row straight leveled and then one row above it and another below it. But since Thom uses 2 rows (3x2), he can not do so. Ok, he can take one row leveled and then one row above it. Then I would also take one shot from both sides (ends) in the upper row to limit the narrowing the result after stitching since that (perspective correction) can not create anything, it just bends until the result is straight.

But if you want close, I'd suggest you looking at the Really Right
Stuff website. They have heads, clamps and plates that are designed
to help with taking Pano images. http://www.reallyrightstuff.com

See my profile, I have had those for some years now... so if they have some updated version that was not in the catalog they send their customers...

I made an exact question, at least I tried to make, I do know how to take 16-bit pixel perfect wide DR panoramic files (hey, I sell those too), but since Thom has done some testing and finally ended up with a 3x2 frame method I felt he had also some standard procedure how to minimize the distortion while photographing and PRIOR to stitching since that will affect the result. I feel that using 2 rows is harder in terms of leveling compared to using one row only (portrait) or 3 rows (landscape), but in all other options than the single row the file will lose detail compared to the original file after shooting (or if shooting straight into the subject (part) that is under MTF evaluation). And you do not need resolution charts as your subject to see what I mean.

-- hide signature --

Osku

 Osku's gear list:Osku's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Nikon D800 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG Aspherical HSM +4 more
Osku Veteran Member • Posts: 3,985
Re: Excellent analysis!

Thom Hogan wrote:

Perry Jacobs wrote:

I don't think most great photographs communicate only observation,
if that is what you meant to imply.

No, I didn't. If all it took was good analysis, all analysts would
be great photographers. And I think I said "photographers" not
"photographs."

I agree with this interesting requirement that you have found to be useful in photography. But I feel also that it enables person to be able to accomplish also in other areas that photography (economics, marketing, sciences, arts too if can handle photography if one just has patience etc.).

I actually have never thought of that as a requirement but I now do understand more about the photographers I do know personally. I am saying I had pretty well pictured where they are in the overall "map" but now I feel I have a "name" for an important ("new") factor that deserves to be "recognized" on its own. So perhaps 6 factors in the equation now, not 5 anymore;-)

Thom, one interesting list of key necessities in perfecting anything are found from "Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design":
http://spacecraft.ssl.umd.edu/akins_laws.html

(and now there is said to be evolutionary lists around for almost every purpose that have origins in this Akins original list...)

-- hide signature --

Osku

 Osku's gear list:Osku's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Nikon D800 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG Aspherical HSM +4 more
stasvolik Contributing Member • Posts: 570
Re: How about a D50x then?

My thought also. I wonder if they can also update ASICs that handle image processing to brig it up to modern (D40/80) levels...

BG5700 wrote:

A step up in megapixels and it then slots nicely between the D40
and D80.

Right now, if there is no D50 or D70 replacement, there is a huge
gap in the lineup. I have a D50 and think it was a bit overspecced
to be an entry level.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Stas.

 stasvolik's gear list:stasvolik's gear list
Nikon Coolpix 5400 Nikon D300 Nikon 1 J3 Nikon AF Nikkor 180mm f/2.8D ED-IF Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC OS HSM +6 more
Anthony Medici Veteran Member • Posts: 5,725
Re: Excellent analysis!

Osku wrote:

I am familiar with PTGui. The point was not how to make the frames
overlap (I can do that even without my tripod...), but to minimize
the need for the converter (stitcher) to correct perspective
problems due far-from-perfect leveling.

Autopano Pro corrects perspective due to a number of different factors. My point was to use the software strong point since as you go up and down and side to side, there are perspective corrections that will need to be made unless you are very accurate with things like nodal points, etc.

But if I do 2 rows like Thom wrote he does, I need to first level,
then distort until I will get the leveled "line" still in the
frame, and then take all horizontal frames in one row, and then
take the other row with same amount of rotation to the opposite
direction. That way both lines of frames will be distorted there
comes a question of how much to downsample to keep the resolution "real".

I've rarely found a circumstance where I needed two rows for any scene since I find the vertical resolution of the D2X large enough for the image sizes I plan to print. If I had to go larger, I'd start with a panning clamp leveled on a ball head. (or on anything that can level the clamp.) I'd then setup my side unit so that I'm level according to the marks on the second panning clamp.

I'd check to make sure that both plates were setup correctly so that swings (left - right, Up - down) were properly set for the nodal point of the lens I was using. If I was going through the effort of a multi-tiered pano, I'd also manually calculate the angle of view for the focal length I was going to use.

Then I'd adjust the vertical adjustment and horizontal adjustment based on the calculated angle of view and the overlap I wanted. I'd set my exposure manually along with focus and run through the predetermined number of shots I intended to take.

That's if I was going to try to maximize the image as you seem to want to do. As I've stated, I've found the resolution sufficient that I'm willing to take some loss and let the program adjust the image slighltly in stitching. The amount of loss seems trivial to me since I've been able to produce 1' by 4' images at 360 dpi with no interpolation with a single row of images.

See my profile, I have had those for some years now... so if they
have some updated version that was not in the catalog they send
their customers...

They have produced a new catalog recently but the basic pano stuff has not changed over the last few years. I'm sorry if I didn't have time to read your profile, most people that ask how to do panos have never even heard of RRS.

I made an exact question, at least I tried to make, I do know how
to take 16-bit pixel perfect wide DR panoramic files (hey, I sell
those too), but since Thom has done some testing and finally ended
up with a 3x2 frame method I felt he had also some standard
procedure how to minimize the distortion while photographing and
PRIOR to stitching since that will affect the result. I feel that
using 2 rows is harder in terms of leveling compared to using one
row only (portrait) or 3 rows (landscape), but in all other options
than the single row the file will lose detail compared to the
original file after shooting (or if shooting straight into the
subject (part) that is under MTF evaluation). And you do not need
resolution charts as your subject to see what I mean.

It sounds like you are well beyond where I have experimented with. The amount of work to do these images seem overbearing until I discovered Autopano Pro. The software does stitch but it also combines images for HDR work. I'm been willing to lose theoretical resolution so that I don't need to spend hours in setting up the shot and I don't need to spend hours putting it together in post processing.

My maximum is usually 5 to 7 frames (for HDR) in a 1 x 4 vertical orientation which gives me close to a 3 x 2 result aspect ratio with a larger dynamic range and appoximately 12" of printed output vertically without interpolation. The only thing I need for this is a single panning clamp and a MPR-CL. Since I only shoot scenics, I can usually use a mid-range focal zoom with this setup.

 Anthony Medici's gear list:Anthony Medici's gear list
Nikon D800E Nikon D7100 Nikon 1 AW1 Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 500mm f/4G ED VR +1 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads