Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

Started Mar 1, 2007 | Discussions
puravida Forum Member • Posts: 56
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

be patient. time will tell.

In the meantime go out, enjoy your cam and UPGRADE your view, shoot pics and show it.

I don´t understand the steam here. First there is a lot of praise about the D40s 6mp sensor, the size of the cam ...and as soon as there is a
hint of 10mp all is forgotten and you shout: Yeah 10mp better and....

Seems like some want the impossoble: D40 (sizewise), with 10mp, including focus motor, at least D200 sensor, all bells and whistles of D2H in an weathersealed full metal boday and at the price of the new coolpix P5000.

It just won´t happen !

Robert

miancu Senior Member • Posts: 1,530
And no new, pro lenses ? n/t
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Dave Cheatham Contributing Member • Posts: 951
It will happen...just wait and see...4 or 5 years(nt)
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Dave Cheatham

Allen George Senior Member • Posts: 1,458
Awesome :)

Heh...looks like I'll have to seriously consider picking one of the existing D40s up.
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keemra Senior Member • Posts: 1,306
Re: It's funny how things work out in Japan ...

David, as a long time resident of Japan I can tell you that smaller and lighter is definitely better here, and that tiny little D40 is about as small and light as you can find in a DSLR. Many people, including yours truly do not own cars, so you have to carry whatever you are going to use, and it gets heavy very quickly. I have been thinking for a while of upgrading my D70 to a D80, but I picked up the tiny D80 in the store yesterday, and boy, it sure is attractive. But, I have 7 lenses at present, and only 1 of them would auto focus on the D40, so..... I am still thinking.
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chichibabin Regular Member • Posts: 151
Re: It's funny how things work out in Japan ...

If only it were true.

pjv Senior Member • Posts: 1,319
Re: Why keep 5 year old chip?

YoungJedi wrote:

If they can get 10mp's to take good clean high ISO...or even as
good as the past chips...Then why not?

None of the 10MP sensors can even approach the 6MP for quality at ISOs above 800. Most people (certainly at the D40 end of the market) won't notice much difference in resolution (especially not with consumer grade lenses, I'd say).

You also need a much faster PC to process 10MP RAW files (I tested it and I'd have to upgrade just for that, when I'm fine at 6MP)...

Pete

imbsysop Veteran Member • Posts: 4,963
Re: Why keep 5 year old chip?

pjv wrote:

YoungJedi wrote:

If they can get 10mp's to take good clean high ISO...or even as
good as the past chips...Then why not?

None of the 10MP sensors can even approach the 6MP for quality at
ISOs above 800. Most people (certainly at the D40 end of the
market) won't notice much difference in resolution (especially not
with consumer grade lenses, I'd say).

Kindly provide some manufacturers specs doc to sustain that claim ?

You also need a much faster PC to process 10MP RAW files (I tested
it and I'd have to upgrade just for that, when I'm fine at 6MP)...

As a long time ICT manager I just do not believe such claims .. sorry ..

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pjv Senior Member • Posts: 1,319
Re: Why keep 5 year old chip?

imbsysop wrote:

Kindly provide some manufacturers specs doc to sustain that claim ?

You're actually expecting specs from manufacturers on this? Just take a look at any review site (including this one)! Make sure to either look at RAW samples, or to check for detail smearing from excessive noise reduction.

You also need a much faster PC to process 10MP RAW files (I tested
it and I'd have to upgrade just for that, when I'm fine at 6MP)...

As a long time ICT manager I just do not believe such claims ..
sorry ..

Well, I've actually tested it with my PC (6MP is quite doable, 10MP RAW files chug like you wouldn't believe, the less said about 12MP the better) and I trust that far more than your ICT knowledge... sorry...

Not that it really bothers me what you believe -- I'm just relating my own experiences here. Take from it whatever you want.

Pete

miancu Senior Member • Posts: 1,530
D40 instead of D3 :))

Probably they had a D3 but the MIII took'em by surprise so they decided to release an improved D40.
And improve the D3.

miancu

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imbsysop Veteran Member • Posts: 4,963
Re: Why keep 5 year old chip?

pjv wrote:

imbsysop wrote:

Kindly provide some manufacturers specs doc to sustain that claim ?

You're actually expecting specs from manufacturers on this? Just
take a look at any review site (including this one)! Make sure
to either look at RAW samples, or to check for detail smearing from
excessive noise reduction.

Yeah sure .. the easy way out as I expected .. ever heard of Sony CX News for example ? Guess not .. rather make "it is generally accepted that .. " claims

Oh well .. having a sensor spec sheet and understanding it are 2 unrelated things ..

You also need a much faster PC to process 10MP RAW files (I tested
it and I'd have to upgrade just for that, when I'm fine at 6MP)...

As a long time ICT manager I just do not believe such claims ..
sorry ..

Well, I've actually tested it with my PC (6MP is quite doable, 10MP
RAW files chug like you wouldn't believe, the less said about 12MP
the better) and I trust that far more than your ICT knowledge...
sorry...

Not that it really bothers me what you believe -- I'm just relating
my own experiences here. Take from it whatever you want.

Of course .. and actually I do not care about this sort of non-information that is backed up by absolutely nothing .. gosh I get dozens of computer users every day that are trying to convince me that the planet is actualy a cube .. oh boy .. If I had to rely on "users' experience" to run my computer nodes we could as well revert back to pencil and paper .. anyway the computer industry is thanking you for the expenses ...

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Richard Fossum Senior Member • Posts: 1,404
Re: PerL - any link to ...

I am sorry, I was a bit triggerhappy; I thought you were discussing wether a new dslr was up for PMA or not... Sorry about that

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Rich.

Darrell Turner
Darrell Turner Contributing Member • Posts: 588
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

As a D40 owner I'd rather see an X version with an in body focus motor not more megapixels. That would be real vallue not just marketing sizzle.

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miancu Senior Member • Posts: 1,530
Re: Why keep 5 year old chip?

Well, I've actually tested it with my PC (6MP is quite doable, 10MP
RAW files chug like you wouldn't believe, the less said about 12MP
the better) and I [...]

Pete

Pete, what PC conf do you have ?

I recently "built" a PC system from components, a sub $1,000 system based on Intel Core2 Duo 6300 and 2GB RAM (very fast RAM, though). I also have a Mac powerbook. I can tell you I process also CR2s (or CRs) from my friend's Mark II and the speed is ok. My D80 RAWs are up to 10 or 11 MB. Speed is quite ok in Lightroom and NX also.

Please also note that for a month or so my PC system worked on single channel because I bought only 1 RAM dimm at the beginning. The speed was also ok even though Intels are famous for their bandwith needs.

miancu

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Darrell Turner
Darrell Turner Contributing Member • Posts: 588
I agree...(nt)

with everything said.

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miancu Senior Member • Posts: 1,530
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

gerryd04 wrote:

otherwise it is just an extremely quick upgrade to an already
successful product, what is the point.

Maybe they want to cover very well the addressed market segment with this camera. Could be that they noticed the trends and probably they expect a boost of sales, profit and perfect positioning. Each need a cash cow and volume sales is what makes money for to invest in R&D for their "platinum" products.

Nikon needs to get in front of Canon in this respect. Not only pro. IMO, this strategy is welcomed.

And, also IMO, nikon also need to try something that Canon did: throwing "bombs" on the market: low-cost, high quality devices to be sold in millions. I stress "high quality".

And lenses. I know, it may look like an obsession, but it's vital.

miancu

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Superchromat250 Regular Member • Posts: 100
Perhaps Nikon run out of 6mp sensor ?

Perhaps Nikon run out of 6 mp sensor?

D80 viewfinder alone is worth the price difference between D40x and D80

Thom Hogan Forum Pro • Posts: 13,659
Re: It's funny how things work out in Japan ...

jeff-c wrote:

David Chin wrote:

... any idea why Nikon is so strong there as opposed to the rest of
the world?

I'd bet the trend is same worldwide, i.e. Nikon is gaining market
share in the past few month and the main reason is the product
lineup: D40 (price sells), D80 (package sells) and D200 (feature
sells).

You'd bet correctly. Things may not be quite so dramatic as they have been in Japan, but early Q4 2006 and Q1 2007 figures on sales (not yet public) show Nikon continuing to gain unit volume sales faster than the market average in the US and Europe.

But such runs generally don't last long periods of time in the high tech world. You're only as good as your most recent efforts, and we get complete model changeover every 18 months, which offers new opportunities for change in market shares.

Everyone who follows the DSLR sales is also trying to figure out why the growth didn't taper as fast as predicted. The initial consensus seems to be that there was more upgrade purchasing than expected. This, too, partially explains Nikon's rise: D100 -> D200 and D70 -> D80, for example, are bigger leaps than 20D -> 30D or 300D -> 350D. Note that Canon's big rise was the D30/D60 -> 300D/20D change, which was a bigger incremental leap.

I still come back to the same thing, though: what happens when the DSLR sales growth drops to 10% annually (or worse)? It's looking more and more like you'd need a huge technological change (e.g. Bayer -> Foveon) to alter market shares at that point. And you'd have to not only be first, but have a long lead time on the others. My bet: such a change won't happen without everyone following within months.

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David Chin Forum Pro • Posts: 11,670
An interesting read - thanks! (nt)

keemra wrote:

David, as a long time resident of Japan I can tell you that smaller
and lighter is definitely better here, and that tiny little D40 is
about as small and light as you can find in a DSLR. Many people,
including yours truly do not own cars, so you have to carry
whatever you are going to use, and it gets heavy very quickly. I
have been thinking for a while of upgrading my D70 to a D80, but I
picked up the tiny D80 in the store yesterday, and boy, it sure is
attractive. But, I have 7 lenses at present, and only 1 of them
would auto focus on the D40, so..... I am still thinking.
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OP jeff-c Senior Member • Posts: 2,096
Re: It's funny how things work out in Japan ...

What confuses me, and probably even Nikon themselves is why the small size and low price D50 didn't sell well whereas the D40 becomes an instant sales champion 18 months later. It's even a lower spec'ed model than the D50 it replaces.

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