Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

Started Mar 1, 2007 | Discussions
OP jeff-c Senior Member • Posts: 2,096
Re: Please keep the 6MP sensor!

Clint Thayer wrote:

The picture quality is stunning, the dynamic range is first rate
and very agreeable ISO up to 1600. In fact, this model takes better
pictures than my D200 does at higher ISO's. I'm just afraid that by
replacing the chip with a 10MP one, the diffractions limitations
take place and we lose that extraordinary ISO 1600 capability,
which in the D40 retains excellent color saturation.

I am with you. In fact I now bring the D40 with me than the D200 in trips because the high ISO capability.

To me personally the D200 is better than D40 in one major aspect: speed, both in terms of focusing and continuous shooting.

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thegreatj Regular Member • Posts: 187
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

If they released a d50s do you think it would be 10mp or 6?

Pik2004 Contributing Member • Posts: 754
It will D3 (H or X).
Raymond Kim Regular Member • Posts: 294
Re: It will D3 (H or X).

Well, notice that Jeff-C didn't reply or say anything at all in the D3 thread. And notice he did say "at least one" DSLR announcement at PMA, so both cameras (D40x and D3) may be introduced.

Greg Terzian Senior Member • Posts: 2,382
Re: It will D3 (H or X).

I believe jeff-c. History proves his reliability. Thank you for the info Jeff.
--
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Fahd Contributing Member • Posts: 698
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

Yes, in that case I would probably get one provided the price is not much higher than the D40. But just for 10MP, not worth it in my opinion.
--
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YoungJedi Senior Member • Posts: 2,637
Why keep 5 year old chip?

I think 6mp's has lived on long enough. Its time for 10 and above from now on. Look at p&s cameras, even they have more than 6 mp's always.

If they can get 10mp's to take good clean high ISO...or even as good as the past chips...Then why not?

6mp is DEAD!

jeff-c wrote:

Clint Thayer wrote:

The picture quality is stunning, the dynamic range is first rate
and very agreeable ISO up to 1600. In fact, this model takes better
pictures than my D200 does at higher ISO's. I'm just afraid that by
replacing the chip with a 10MP one, the diffractions limitations
take place and we lose that extraordinary ISO 1600 capability,
which in the D40 retains excellent color saturation.

I am with you. In fact I now bring the D40 with me than the D200 in
trips because the high ISO capability.

To me personally the D200 is better than D40 in one major aspect:
speed, both in terms of focusing and continuous shooting.

Clint Thayer
Clint Thayer Senior Member • Posts: 1,894
Re: Why keep 5 year old chip?

This 6MP chip is very refined.
--
Clint

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ed johnson 1 Regular Member • Posts: 168
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

makes sense thow. reverse psycholigy. a d40 for more then a d50 da
a d40 with 10 meg pix and d200 metering, with ittl flash ? thats a stretch.

starcolony Regular Member • Posts: 343
Re: Please keep the 6MP sensor!

First off, I would be fairly surprised if they upgraded the new D40. Though in the marketing and technology world, anything is possible.

I purchased my D40 one month ago. If Nikon actually put a 10mp sensor in the D40 body, I wouldn't be too interested. I would be surprised if they could maintain the impressive 1600 ISO performance of the D40. I would not compromise this performance for any pixel increase.

Now, if they found a way to jam in a body mounted focus motor, they will have my attention. I would be a nice way to open up the lens options till more AF-S lenses become available.

All that said, Nikon seems to have put a lot of attention into their consumer grade cameras lately. I really expect them to freshen up their professional DSLRs at the PMA.

Cheers, TR

the911s Forum Member • Posts: 94
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

Honestly, I'd be a little annoyed. That's called s#!tting on your customers. Even if they increase the price a bit, you should really wait a while before directly upgrading a camera that doesn't have problems.

And I don't even care about the 10MP, as I would probably rarely use it. Just the principle of it would really bother me.

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David Chin Forum Pro • Posts: 11,670
It's funny how things work out in Japan ...

... any idea why Nikon is so strong there as opposed to the rest of the world?

jeff-c wrote:

Do you also know the D40 is tthe sales champion in Japan in January
(last week data), over passing the 400D/Rebel XTi?

http://bcnranking.jp/freepaper/12-00012860.html

And it helps Nikon occupy 49.9% of the DSLR market in Japan,
kicking Canon down to 33.1% as #2 since last December.

So why do they upgrade the D40?

I would contribute this as manufacture and supply issue instead of
marketing reason. 6mp is sufficient for the market segment but Sony
may be EOF'ing the famous 6mp chip and lowering the price of the
new 10.2mp chip.

And for most of the consumers, pixel does count.

For me, I will hold on to the 6mp D40 as it has better high ISO
performance than the 10.2mp D200 as my own test confirms (in
Chinese but the graphs should be readable):

http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=413611

the911s Forum Member • Posts: 94
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

That said, I'd be alright unless they added screw drive. Then I'd really be mad.

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Another satisfied D40 owner
50mm f/1.4: ancient
70-300mm: moderately old
AF-S 55-200mm
kit lens

Greg Terzian Senior Member • Posts: 2,382
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

Why would you be mad? You could have purchased a D50 at an even lower price and that has an AF motor, among other things...

the911s wrote:

That said, I'd be alright unless they added screw drive. Then I'd
really be mad.

Greg Terzian Senior Member • Posts: 2,382
Re: Nikon's PMA DSLR announcement

Explain this logic, if you will. So, Nikon should hold back development? IF they upgrade the D40, current D40 owners still got they researched and paid for. End of story.

the911s wrote:

Honestly, I'd be a little annoyed. That's called s#!tting on your
customers. Even if they increase the price a bit, you should really
wait a while before directly upgrading a camera that doesn't have
problems.

OP jeff-c Senior Member • Posts: 2,096
Re: It's funny how things work out in Japan ...

David Chin wrote:

... any idea why Nikon is so strong there as opposed to the rest of
the world?

I'd bet the trend is same worldwide, i.e. Nikon is gaining market share in the past few month and the main reason is the product lineup: D40 (price sells), D80 (package sells) and D200 (feature sells).

Comparing to Canon, its entry level 400D is priced higher than D40, thus ends up losing its #1 position. The 30D is surrounded by D80 and D200, both having more pixel and features. While in the higher end 5D is FF but it's priced beyond what the mass can afford.

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David SL Veteran Member • Posts: 3,474
I think that is it exactly.

jeff-c wrote:

Whether Nikon is going to bring up the price of D40x to the same
level of Canon 400D or not we will find out in a few days.

From CCD chip cost stand point of view I doubt there is any major
cost difference between the 6mp and the 10.2mp, as the biggest cost
factor is die (chip) size which is same for both of them.

And it could very well be that the 10.2mp chip is even cheaper from
Sony because Sony is ramping up the 10.2mp due to more models are
using this version instead of the 6mp one.

If true, this is the only reason I can see Nikon retooling the D40 after such a short period of time. Sony told them something akin to "if you want more of those 6mp chips you'll have to pay MORE for them since we are fabbing them down or you can take the 10mp ones for the same price , what say you?" Obviously an easy choice for Nikon despite the fact that they would have had to reengineer the data pipeline of the D40 to accomodate the bigger chip. In order to keep the same fps, shot to shot and buffering and timing performance (assumed) as the D40 the D40x will have to up it's components and this leans away from the x model having the same price as the current D40 even if the chip procurement cost is the same. My bet is it will be boosted in price relative to the D40 , the existing stock of D40's will sell away and the D40x will be poised to compete with the 400D.

I guess we'll find out in a matter of days.

Regards,

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Raymond Kim Regular Member • Posts: 294
Re: I think that is it exactly.

I agree. It seems like it's meant to compete with the 400D.

OP jeff-c Senior Member • Posts: 2,096
Re: I think that is it exactly.

David SL wrote:

If true, this is the only reason I can see Nikon retooling the D40
after such a short period of time. Sony told them something akin to
"if you want more of those 6mp chips you'll have to pay MORE for
them since we are fabbing them down or you can take the 10mp ones
for the same price , what say you?" Obviously an easy choice for
Nikon despite the fact that they would have had to reengineer the
data pipeline of the D40 to accomodate the bigger chip. In order to
keep the same fps, shot to shot and buffering and timing
performance (assumed) as the D40 the D40x will have to up it's
components and this leans away from the x model having the same
price as the current D40 even if the chip procurement cost is the
same. My bet is it will be boosted in price relative to the D40 ,
the existing stock of D40's will sell away and the D40x will be
poised to compete with the 400D.

I'd bet majority of the electronics inside D40 is same as the D80, probably even the D200. They all have two processors: one for camera body control and the other for graphic processing. It's known fact the camera body CPU is from Fujitsu (CPU B) and the graphic chip is from NEC. This can be confirmed by doing an ASCII dump of the D40 and D80 firmware and look for Copyright notice.

Again from production cost stand point of view it makes sense for the manufacture to use same CPU/processor chips across product line. Canon boosts its DIGIC chip being used in all their cameras, from compact type to the high-end professional one.

And this D40x upgrade is probably planned way before D40 was launched and they probably already have the design done back in last December, just waiting for Sony to tell them when to switch.

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David SL Veteran Member • Posts: 3,474
and as well....

consumers tend to forget that in a market where components are commodities across different manufacturers (eg. Sony sensors in Nikon bodies) the procuring company is in a way at the behest of the provider in terms of what components they can wrap their products around. In Nikon's case , Sony is a major source for the sensors in their most lucrative (volume and profit) models, if Sony's internal machinations has them EOL'ing the 6mp lines to produce the 10mp ones for the same price. Nikon can either insist that Sony provide them the 6mp for their current model but PAY the premium to keep Sony's line open OR Nikon can quickly re engineer a modified "x" version of the body around the new sensor, boost the price a bit and sell it without incurring additional procurement costs for the sensor. The price boost a result of the fact that they will have to recoup redesign costs and component upgrades to maintain body performance characteristics like fps, buffer size, speed..etc.

Sometimes a company does things because they have to and not because they necessarily want to. Nikon would probably not have had the gun to their had if they produced their own sensors but they don't have their own lines leaving at the mercy of their supplier.

Regards,

Greg Terzian wrote:
Explain this logic, if you will. So, Nikon should hold back
development? IF they upgrade the D40, current D40 owners still got
they researched and paid for. End of story.

the911s wrote:

Honestly, I'd be a little annoyed. That's called s#!tting on your
customers. Even if they increase the price a bit, you should really
wait a while before directly upgrading a camera that doesn't have
problems.

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