I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

Started Feb 24, 2007 | Discussions
rbhun Regular Member • Posts: 285
I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

...because then every new user will fill in here asking if they shall buy it, and what to buy with it, and if the photo of their favourite anything is nice enough, and if it does have a live image, and so on...

PLEASE people! Photography is an art. Yes, you all can own these cameras, and we are all happy if you buy these instead of a P&S, and you may come and ask questions, but just because you paid $800 for a camera you will NOT become an artist. I'm sure you all know this. Photography is also a technology. You need to know the f numbers, what aperture means, and how to choose a lens. If you dont know what focal lenght you need, you have not outgrown your current equipment. Better equipment only will not give you better images. The EOS line is the pro line of Canon's photography division, and any lens you can attach to your camera is capable of capturing extremely beautiful images. Yes, they all have limits, but those are much farther away you would think. Please buy a camera you will use. Please read the manual. Please try to understand it. Please read the net, books and other posts for information on subjects or functions you dont know or understand. Shooting with a DSLR is not as difficult as it have been, but creating visions still demands your COMPLETE understanding of your camera, equipement, and the full process. No, you dont need to know how a CMOS works, but you need to know why its there.

If you're not a born pro photographer, or you just think you want to improve your pics, or you are asking too much questions on this board, please consider the following:

1, understand the following words and their effect on your pics:

aperture, shutter, ISO, DOF, exposure, exposure compensation, focal length, macro, tele, f stop, EV, blur, bokeh, noise, white balance (WB)

2, read your manual again. Think about the functions you have in your camera. They are there to help your creativity, not to stop you. Understand your camera's metering and AF modes. Understand how they work. Your EOS is doing most of the work for you. You better know about how its done if you want a good end result.

3, Do not use the auto mode on your camera. Use Tv, Av or M depending on the situation. If you dont know which one to choose, go back to 1 and 2. If you dont care, you're stuck on P&S level, and you dont need to buy more stuff or ask questions, just press the shutter.

4, Do not buy a new lens. Do not buy more equipment. Experiment with your kit lens. Use what you have. A piece of cardboard can make more difference than an L class lens.

5, Experiment. Walk with your eyes open. Imagine things in a frame. Try to figure out how things will look thru a camera. Look thru your camera. Take it with you when you walk, and look thru the viewfinder. Try to figure out the focal length before you put the camera to your eyes. This is a very good expertise.

6, If you feel you have run out of subjects, read this fantastic list here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1031&thread=16309636 I'm sure you will got a lot of ideas.

7, Dont take pictures while you're standing. Bend down, get on one knee or lie on the ground. Stand on a stool or on a ladder.

8, Try out ALL the features your camera have. If its intended for a special shot (like action shoots or landscapes), do that. Walk to a nearby park and shoot youngsters playing football or closeups of a flower. You will find that there are countless subjects.

9, Go out in groups of two or three. Find a subject (like an apple on a tree or a strangely shaped road) and take one shoot each. You can all use the same camera. Compare the images. Notice how differently you all see the same object. Try to find new ways to show the object. Make this a contest.

10, Try different settings on your camera. Try bulb mode. Try f/16 and f/3.5.

11, Take a photo of something (anything, like a cup on your kitchen table) with the zoom in the middle setting. Now zoom in all the way, and take a few steps back to get the same sized object. Try to make the same image. Now zoom out and walk closer. Compare the images (look at the background). Try different sized images with different backgrounds.

12, Try out a few filters. You can use cheap and good-looking Coken P filters. Try grad filers. try out a cheap polar on a blue sky or on a car (watch the windows!). You can have a try with an infrared/deep red filter. Try to archieve crazy looks. Try vaseline smeared around a glass (this is called DIY soft effect filter). Read after filters.

13, Try flash photography and avilable light photography. Keep in mind that the onboard flash is more like a selling point, and that direct light is the worst you can have. Try to use your onboard flash at daylight, with the sun behind your subject. Try Av mode and M mode with flash. You must know which one to choose.

13, If you find yourself making nice images but being limited by something, THEN you can buy new equipment. After all this, you will precisely know what you need. If you dont, go back and take more photos. Find your style. Load up all your images and flip thru them. Find ones you like, but can be improved. Go back to the same spot and do it again.

Thanks for reading this all. I dont want anybody feel bad about my language, but you all need to improve yourself before you improve your camera. I still use my 300D and plan to use it for a few more years. I am shooting for years now but I never felt I have outgrown my camera. I might wished for a better lens or a bigger flash but I was always wrong. People out there create stunning images with $150 P&S cameras and 20 years old film cameras. Be grateful for the camera feature you have at your hands, but dont let them take the picture instead of you.

Balazs

dondeesten Forum Member • Posts: 67
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

Twenty year old film cameras are probably the single best resource for learning about photography, IMHO. Good post, by the way.
--
Evolution of gear:
A610> OM2> 400D
http://esten.carbonmade.com

CanonKen Senior Member • Posts: 2,854
Very good post!

I grew up (I am only 22, but started as a little kid with a manual Ricoh SLR) on basic film SLR's - and boy did I learn a lot!

I seamlessly know and use ISO, shutter, and aperture (main ones) in creating the scene - using a automatic P&S camera is very annoying and frustrating for me unless I am just taking snapshots to record an event (as opposed to making art).

After 2 years with a 300D, I graduated to a 30D because I really needed more from the camera - but the 300D was able to do SOOO much.

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jrynash Veteran Member • Posts: 3,141
Re: 450D underexposed by 1/2 stop (nt)
n/t
Anthony de Vries Veteran Member • Posts: 3,789
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

dondeesten wrote:

Twenty year old film cameras are probably the single best resource
for learning about photography,

Not in my world... I never experimented with photography with my film camera, like I've been doing with my DSLR.

Because you don't have to pay for every single picture you make, you can experiment without any cost. A significant part of my pictures are just tests, learning about the camera's behaviour, certain compositional effects, etc etc. With my film camera, I only once shot a role of film that way.

Lajos Hajdu Senior Member • Posts: 1,590
Hűha...

... jól megmondtad nekik! De hogy a többiek is megértsék:

What you wrote is true. The reason for all the dissatisfaction is the technology craze of our age. We always want something better, even only one year after buying a brand-new model. Just read the 30D forum: many people there are very disappointed by the continued absence of a successor model. This is called "upgraditis" and it's very hard to remain immune to it, especially in West Europe and the U.S. where camera prices are lower and disposable incomes are higher.

hlse Regular Member • Posts: 257
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

Good post !
Let the truth be told.

I recently bought a 400D and I'm very happy with it. If it underexpose or not , I don't know. And I don't care. With important shots I always use bracketing.

When I go out to take some shots I always bring my trusty old A1.
Yes, film !
That camera has tought me what photography is all about.
And how to consider different varables before I push the shutter release.

My move to digital was trough an Agfa P&S digital camera. And when I felt comfortable with digital I upgraded to the 400D not so long ago.

I know I have much to learn yet, but I know enough to not to blame my mistakes on the camera.

Learning photography takes a lifetime.

OP rbhun Regular Member • Posts: 285
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

Anthony I agree that digital cameras, especially with their instant replay, has shortened the leaning curve for som many things. Its easier to learn things like panning, and theoritically it would be better to lean on a DSLR. And I have nothing against digital images. I'm a technocrat, and I have hard times resisting buying the biggest lenses and bodies just to satisfy my such needs. What I'm against here is the full-auto mode on a DSLR. Most new people here bought their camera thinking 'it' will make better pics than a cheap P&S. While they are right in a sense, they are expecting their camera maiking their pics. Digital just makes it worse in this case, because it allows for unliited number of bad shots. The advantage of film was that you had to pay for evey shot, so you really thought about pressing the shutter.

Dennis Regular Member • Posts: 351
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

very good post. I just hope that people will read it and understand that you are not being inconsiderate just factuall. I have seen so many silly post on here from people that have no idea of what they just bought. Other then it is a DSLR and I would be willing to bet that the majority of them don't even know what DSLR means.

Alain D Senior Member • Posts: 1,102
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

rbhun wrote:

What
I'm against here is the full-auto mode on a DSLR.

but don't forget that a DSLR is often shared in a household by more than one person - I could not get my wife to understand all the settings....

Even my 4.5 years old daughter wants to take pictures of us with it (which I cringe the one time I let her do it due to the weight/$$$ of the camera in her tiny hands - she did ok and we were actually in the frame!!

Most new people
here bought their camera thinking 'it' will make better pics than a
cheap P&S.

and it should, with the big caveas that DOF is much smaller due to the sensor size difference, which can be a big surprise.

This comes up again and again, but the XT/XTi is canon entry level DSLR (those coming from P&S), has many auto modes and canon does even includes a direct print button on the back (which I don't get)!

Maybe you are not the target audiance Canon has for the XTi....

While they are right in a sense, they are expecting
their camera maiking their pics. Digital just makes it worse in
this case, because it allows for unliited number of bad shots. The
advantage of film was that you had to pay for evey shot, so you
really thought about pressing the shutter.

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Alain D

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Magnum Bob New Member • Posts: 16
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

Whoa there rbhun,
Why in the world would you be "against" a full auto mode on a DSLR?

Example: I noticed earlier one of the posters said he has an old Canon A-1. I also had one of those for over 20 years. My wife, who is the opposite of a technogeek, had no problem screwing my Metz handheld flash to the camera, sticking on a wide angle zoom, and taking it off to school to shoot many beautiful pictures of her kids in "program" mode. (that camera's equivalent of full auto without automatic focus of course.)
Are you saying she shouldn't be able to do that with a DSLR?

And also, why shouldn't a DSLR work every bit as well and as easy as a point and shoot? My old A-1 basically did. Have we gone backwards in technology?
Magnum Bob

SteveDuff Contributing Member • Posts: 752
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

dondeesten wrote:

Twenty year old film cameras are probably the single best resource
for learning about photography, IMHO. Good post, by the way.
--
Evolution of gear:
A610> OM2> 400D
http://esten.carbonmade.com

Anybody want to buy a twenty year old film camera?

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/1987-1991/data/1989_eos630_qd.html

(yes, I know, it's only 18 years old, but it can still take decent picture)

Actually these are a really BAD way to learn about photography. A dSLR is a really GOOD way, provided you're experimenting and learning, rather than just complaining that the camera didn't produce exactly the result you were hoping for. (I'm not suggesting that you, dondeesten, do any such complaining)

Steve

Al_10D Senior Member • Posts: 1,798
Excellent post. Must read for all newbies. nt
n/t
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junkmail9782 Forum Member • Posts: 65
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

rbhun, wow, please speak what you really mean. . I think you as a more experianced artist gets a bit annoyed with us (meaning me) newbie questions, but were you ever new to photography, to slr? to Dslr? im sure you had questions, right? I cant speak for everyone but i have read the manual (and bring it out and re read it every time i get the camera out) i read tons of sites on the web ( some recommeded from helpful people on here) taken lots of pictures trying to 'get' it, but sometimes i need it said a different way, explained a different way, for me to understand. and im pretty sure thats what this site it for. Your post is full of useful iformation, but also sounds a bit rude to me, (that you were annoyed) now i may be completely wrong and there is no testyness (sp? is that even a word) in your post, but if i am correct, please feel free to ignore my posts in the future, as im sure i will stil have a ton of questions. . Take care.
--

im very new, so please excuse my silly question, especially if its been asked before!
Laurie

nahmed Forum Member • Posts: 91
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

Great post!

Vito_F Regular Member • Posts: 172
Thanks for your time, effort and information, but...

the overall tone of your post imo is one of pomposity and pretentiousness. Although you included an abundance of great suggestions, too bad you haven't the temperment to deal with posters you consider "novices" as you obviously have a lot of information to share, its just that you can't mask your frustration.

I just started looking at this (dslr) forum after years of looking at the P&S Canon forum, from which I learned much. I am considering purchasing an entry level dslr and had been very interested in the 400 Xti until I started reading about the "under exposure" issue - real or perceived as it may be. I do have to say that posts like yours are not very welcoming.

A few things for you to consider ...

Some people here and on other forums have expressed interest in a dslr due to the speed of the camera in its ability to keep up with fast moving subjects such as children and pets. Not every picture is expected to be a work of art; it may be to capture a particular moment of time that can be enjoyed for years to come. And although I'd like to think my children are works of art, I don't really care if anyone thinks my photos are or not.

If some people here have asked an opinion on whether or not to buy a particular camera, why should you be so upset? The answer for you to is ignore the post and let it go unanswered or have someone who wants to be helpful, answer.

Specifically regarding the issues with whether or not some Xti units underexpose in auto mode, or with a particular flash, or whatever, imo there are enough posts that make me question the camera's ability to consistently provide accurate exposure. And although you may consider it sacriligious to use Auto mode, many people may not, and just want to quickly capture a scene with very fast focusing and non-existent shutter lag. That's why in some instances they ask for the opinions of others before dropping > $1000 for a camera with abilities that their current P&S cannot perform.

Thanks for listening...

Vito

percush Regular Member • Posts: 132
Re: I sure hope there will be no 450D out...

I feel so humbled and extremely privelidged, no! honoured,in fact I am now in the kneeling position no less and am unable to find the proper words to express my feelings of sheer admiration and wonder that I could be admonished by such a master of his craft. To be allowed even to browse these forums that are frequented by such a being as he, is no less than a miracle.

It is with some sadness and even a little personal shame that I pack up the machine that I dared to attempt to use in taking a simple picture of my loved ones when my only claim to the right to use it was the fact that MY hard earned cash bought it.

How I could ever have had the audacity to attempt to use a machine dedicated only to persons at, or above the level of such a being I will never know.

What to do with the offending DSLR is the question. To attempt to sell it would be admitting to all and sundry that I had, perhaps illegally, bought one and even attempted to try it. Thats a problem.

I better simply hide it away deep in a cupboard somewhere and not admit any knowledge of it, and who knows in time to come I may be forgiven for ever buying it.

The safe way and probably the most acceptable to the almighty "pro" is to stick with my kodak 1mp or even my mobile phone camera and if I am not sure about anything, DONT ASK HIM!!!

One question, BUT NOT FOR HIM, when a "pro" photographer is "born" does the camera come attached, poor mum.
Now, where can I hide that damn green box.

Lajos Hajdu Senior Member • Posts: 1,590
Off-topic: your web page is not working

The home page in your signature is not working. I'd like to see your posts.
--
http://www.pbase.com/laja30/inbox

Lajos Hajdu Senior Member • Posts: 1,590
I ment "pics"

Ehhm... of course I meant to write that I want to see your pics.
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drz Senior Member • Posts: 2,227
Woo Hoo!

What?! There's a new 450 coming out?! I hadn't heard that before! I wonder if I should get it. I'm sure my pictures will be better with the better equipment.

I can't wait!

D.

PS - I am also sure that it will be better than even the most expensive Nikon. It's just has to be -- it's a Canon!

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