K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Started Feb 21, 2007 | Discussions
Genes Pentax Senior Member • Posts: 1,044
K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Hi all,

I'm rather frustrated with K10Ds ... what would you do?

PROBLEM: Front focusing on TWO (2) K10Ds shipped directly from Pentax.

DILEMMA: Whether to order another (3rd) copy of K10D to see whether it'll be any better (or strike out), or just return both K10Ds for refund and just live with my DS until a even higher quality Pentax is released.

I really like the faster focus and controls on K10D. Also, I got a great price on the K10D (Anyone interested in a new K10D + a kit lens for $850?). So, I'm rather reluctant to part with it. But on the other hand, I am rather disappointed with the focus accuracy issue. Besides, because my DS produces very good pictures also, I am not sure whether further hassle with K10D is worth it for now.

SITUATION:

1. I first purchased a K10D about a month ago. Serial number 231XXXX. But I noticed that it was having a front focus issue. So I bought another one before returning the first one to see how the first one compares with another copy of K10D.

2. I received the 2nd K10D today. Serial number 236XXXX. The front focusing problem is worse on this one.
3. Both K10Ds were shipped directly from Pentax in Golden, Colorado.
4. I took the same picture with my ist DS to make sure it's not my lens.

What do you think?

Gene

TEST SETUP:
1. FA 50/1.4 @ f/1.4
2. Tripod, center focus, SR off on K10Ds.
3. Distance from the target: about 50cm and about 20 cm above the plane.
4. The horizontal lines are 2cm apart.
5. From left to right: K10D (copy 2), ist DS, and K10D (1st copy)

Focus on the intersection of two lines, one of which is marked with an "x."

Focusing on the line further away....

Sinan Tarlan Veteran Member • Posts: 5,855
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

I think its a common problem with K10's = mine would FF too - did you try adjusting the AF through the debug menu? Its a shame Pentax cant get the AF issue right on this camera - especially since it seems fine on other Pentax's. I dont really believe anyone that says there is no AF problem with the K10 - there most certainly is and therea have been many many comments about focusing issues with the K10 and most of them warranted - mine would FF just like your two copies did there, unfortunate but true. I still love the K10 - I just have to adjust the AF when im shooting indoors or at worst leave it at a value like -40 for all around use (since in daylight im likely to use smaller apertures so DOF will cover the slight BF that I will get by setting -40).

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Sinan

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OP Genes Pentax Senior Member • Posts: 1,044
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Debug menu? What debug menu? Where is it? Did it solve your FF problem?

I wonder whether anyone sent their K10D to Pentax for warranty repair and how it worked out.

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

I think its a common problem with K10's = mine would FF too - did
you try adjusting the AF through the debug menu? Its a shame Pentax
cant get the AF issue right on this camera - especially since it
seems fine on other Pentax's. I dont really believe anyone that
says there is no AF problem with the K10 - there most certainly is
and therea have been many many comments about focusing issues with
the K10 and most of them warranted - mine would FF just like your
two copies did there, unfortunate but true. I still love the K10 -
I just have to adjust the AF when im shooting indoors or at worst
leave it at a value like -40 for all around use (since in daylight
im likely to use smaller apertures so DOF will cover the slight BF
that I will get by setting -40).

-- hide signature --

Sinan

Alfisti Veteran Member • Posts: 6,649
It is the lens

There are dozens of threads showing the FA50 front focussing, dozens.

Fanboys here will deny everything and say it is user error (we are all idiots apparently). Others will say that AF is a gimmick and they only use MF, I also assume they get about on horse and cart as well.

Learn tolive with it or switch. I still cannot make up my mind. If the D80 was smaller and 6MP rather than 10, i'd just about jump ship because this AF business is ridiculous.

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Alfisti Veteran Member • Posts: 6,649
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

I did. It came back a little better but the process was harrowing (a complete balls up, morons the lot of them). Shipped to the wrong address, idiot reception girl, no notes on what they changed, unable to talk to the repair person ... freakin nightmare.

Genes Pentax wrote:

Debug menu? What debug menu? Where is it? Did it solve your FF
problem?

I wonder whether anyone sent their K10D to Pentax for warranty
repair and how it worked out.

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wlachan
wlachan Veteran Member • Posts: 6,759
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Forgive me if I miss something but I am about to sleep and didn't reading everything. But to keep it brief, DON'T test AF accuracy with any 45 degree target. This test is flaw by design. The reason is that the actual AF sensor covers a wide area, and its actual placement might not be dead centre. If you must, test it on 2D target which is perpendicular to the camera. Also, don't draw any conclusion based on 1 lens only.
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blende8 Senior Member • Posts: 1,494
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Yes there is an AF issue under tungsten light.
I predict that you did this under tungsten light.
If you repeat the test under normal daylight, it will be (about) ok.

This issue has been confirmed by many users so far. It appears to be a special K10D issue. There is no real solution or explanation yet.

The only workaround is to use the (inofficial) service menue and use correction values.

wlachan
wlachan Veteran Member • Posts: 6,759
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Alfisti wrote:

I did. It came back a little better but the process was harrowing
(a complete balls up, morons the lot of them). Shipped to the wrong
address, idiot reception girl, no notes on what they changed,
unable to talk to the repair person ... freakin nightmare.

CR.K. I presume? Yeah they suck.
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Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan

Alfisti Veteran Member • Posts: 6,649
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Sorry Alan, what is CR.K?

wlachan wrote:

Alfisti wrote:

I did. It came back a little better but the process was harrowing
(a complete balls up, morons the lot of them). Shipped to the wrong
address, idiot reception girl, no notes on what they changed,
unable to talk to the repair person ... freakin nightmare.

CR.K. I presume? Yeah they suck.
--
Alan Chan
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan

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Alfisti Veteran Member • Posts: 6,649
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

No the K100D does it too, I feel it is morwe the FA series lenses causing the grief.

blende8 wrote:
It appears to

be a special K10D issue. There is no real solution or explanation
yet.--

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Pentax Lens examples at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti/images_by_lens

wlachan
wlachan Veteran Member • Posts: 6,759
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Alfisti wrote:

No the K100D does it too, I feel it is morwe the FA series lenses
causing the grief.

But all my FA lenses AF fine with my DS.
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http://www.pbase.com/wlachan

wlachan
wlachan Veteran Member • Posts: 6,759
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Alfisti wrote:

Sorry Alan, what is CR.K?

CR Kennedy.
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Julian324 Regular Member • Posts: 140
What is service / debug menu???

Heard about it many times, but can ' t manage to find info ...

wlachan
wlachan Veteran Member • Posts: 6,759
Re: What is service / debug menu???

Julian324 wrote:

Heard about it many times, but can ' t manage to find info ...

Have fun!
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=22013971
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Bronek Regular Member • Posts: 204
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Genes Pentax wrote:

I wonder whether anyone sent their K10D to Pentax for warranty
repair and how it worked out.

now, that's a thought! I actual plan to do it (mine has strong back focus with 77 Ltd) but part of me resist parting with the camera ...

Bronek Regular Member • Posts: 204
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Alfisti wrote:

I did. It came back a little better but the process was harrowing
(a complete balls up, morons the lot of them). Shipped to the wrong
address, idiot reception girl, no notes on what they changed,
unable to talk to the repair person ... freakin nightmare.

please tell where? US, Europe?

Laurens Senior Member • Posts: 1,391
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

Use the infamous Nikon test chart
http://www.focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf

rather than the chart you have. Your camera may have an AF problem, but your test method is flawed. The AF area is ca. the size of the centre ( ) on the DS and may be slightly offset. We must assume that anything in focus in the AF area is deemed "in focus" by the camera.

FWIW I have focus problems with some of my lenses (DA21, DA40), but my FA50 works well under all light conditions. What is the shutter speed/ISO?

Laurens

Genes Pentax wrote:

Hi all,

I'm rather frustrated with K10Ds ... what would you do?

PROBLEM: Front focusing on TWO (2) K10Ds shipped directly from
Pentax.

DILEMMA: Whether to order another (3rd) copy of K10D to see
whether it'll be any better (or strike out), or just return both
K10Ds for refund and just live with my DS until a even higher
quality Pentax is released.

SITUATION:
1. I first purchased a K10D about a month ago. Serial number
231XXXX. But I noticed that it was having a front focus issue. So
I bought another one before returning the first one to see how the
first one compares with another copy of K10D.

4. I took the same picture with my ist DS to make sure it's not my
lens.

What do you think?

Gene

TEST SETUP:
1. FA 50/1.4 @ f/1.4
2. Tripod, center focus, SR off on K10Ds.
3. Distance from the target: about 50cm and about 20 cm above the
plane.
4. The horizontal lines are 2cm apart.
5. From left to right: K10D (copy 2), ist DS, and K10D (1st copy)

Focus on the intersection of two lines, one of which is marked with
an "x."

Focusing on the line further away....

tootal2 Regular Member • Posts: 132
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

You Know if you set your f-stop higher the whole page will be in focus. Its called depth of field.

Alfisti Veteran Member • Posts: 6,649
Re: K10D - Systematic Focus Problem - Quality Control Issue?

What a tool of a comment.

tootal2 wrote:

You Know if you set your f-stop higher the whole page will be in
focus. Its called depth of field.

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***********************************************
Please visit my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti

Pentax Lens examples at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti/images_by_lens

OP Genes Pentax Senior Member • Posts: 1,044
Re: It is the lens -- I don't think so....

I'm a Pentax fan also, but a rational one.

If it's the lens, then my ist DS should've been out of focus also. But as you can see, it is not.

Also, although I've not tested with my FA 43 on the diagram, but from the pictures I've taken, the K10Ds do have the problem.

Alfisti wrote:

There are dozens of threads showing the FA50 front focussing, dozens.

Fanboys here will deny everything and say it is user error (we are
all idiots apparently). Others will say that AF is a gimmick and
they only use MF, I also assume they get about on horse and cart as
well.

Learn tolive with it or switch. I still cannot make up my mind. If
the D80 was smaller and 6MP rather than 10, i'd just about jump
ship because this AF business is ridiculous.

-- hide signature --

***********************************************
Please visit my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti

Pentax Lens examples at http://www.pbase.com/alfisti/images_by_lens

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