40 specs disappointing?

Started Feb 20, 2007 | Discussions
Progress Lover Senior Member • Posts: 1,620
40 specs disappointing?

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_40D.html

This is my first post after lurking for years. I've never wanted to get into the flame wars, but these specs annoyed me enough to make being called a troll on my first post by all the 'new camera haters' worthwhile.

I've been shooting for a long time with LF, MF, Pentax and Minotla film SLR gear before moving to Canon DSLR with the D60 several years ago. Been using a couple of 20Ds and L glass (amongst others) with great pleasure since its release. The difference between the D60 and 20D was a quantum leap in terms of performance. I was disappointed by the 30D and had no reason to buy. I have been eagerly awaiting the 40D and all the improvements Canon 'would' be able to put in after nearly 3 years of the 20D. Especially as one of my 20Ds died and I need another body.

Here's the alleged spec for the 40D. More details at link above.

10.1 MP CMOS sensor
5fps, 30 JPEG image burst
Integrated Cleaning System
2.5 Inch LCD with 230K pixels and 160º viewing angle
Picture Styles
Spot metering & 9-point AF
DIGIC II processor with 0.2 sec start
DPP software
Magnesium alloy body

We'll have to wait, but I suspect this is on the nail.

Ok. So where's the improved AF? DR? High ISO (assuming this is similar to 400D/Xti)? Where's the DIGICIII and significantly deeper RAW buffer it should offer? Where are the weather seals, the live-view with histogram, the one touch MLU, the real built in AF illuminator?....

It does have a spot meter (which I don’t care about due to having the ability to use Manual mode and/or judge exp comp from looking at a scene). With digital it only takes a split-second to bracket anyway and there's no cost to it and it take less time that spot metering...

It’s fine to put a spot on there and I’m sure some people will benefit, but it’s not a priority.

I wanted better AF, seals, better DR (and/or better high iso) and deeper RAW buffer. They have improved the RAW buffer by 2 frames (to 11) and the total data that the buffer can hold is about 50% greater (if my calc is right). However, for me, 50% in almost 3 YEARS, is pathetic. Especially when you consider that the 50% more DATA is actually only a 20% difference in terms of number of FRAMES in the buffer (the important bit). I’d rather stay at 8mp with better ISO, DR frame rate and/or buffer depth. Not even a new processor. After nearly 3 years?!

If true, this has all the hallmarks of an entirely marketing driven effort baring no relation at all to what could/should be possible at the same price in the time frame. A cynical attempt to boost margins? No innovation. No useful performance gain over 3yo tech of same level. 11% more res. No high iso improvement. No AF improvement. No PS elements like with the 20D. I use the full version, but it had added value cos I can resell the disk!
The alleged 40D will have to be very very cheap for me to buy it.

So, unless there’s the ‘3D’ (I’ve been waiting for for 5 years) or a nice ‘7D’, I’ll either have to get a 400D to tide me over, or possibly (and almost incredibly) get a Nikon as a 2nd body - or maybe even a Pentax if they can release a higher res & faster body at PMA. Other option is a used 20/30D.

Canon also seems to have updated some lenses, but the prices on first glance appear to be rather high (or that’s my first impression):

400 5.6 IS for 2000Euros. WTF?! Non-IS is £700!!! They want another £650 JUST FOR IS?! Obviously, a used non-IS is cheaper still and there’ll be a lot more of them around if the IS version is real. Canon is really forcing me (and others) to look long and hard at both the used market and indeed at the competition, not because they can’t afford it, but because they refuse to pay the prices asked in light of the competition. Canon’s high ISO used to be a big enough difference in the bodies. Now, there are other features that leave me less than convinced that superior high ISO is all I want.

Perhaps Canon peaked a couple of years back with the 350D, 20D, 1DII & 1DsII generation? The 400D had a tiny res increase, no ISO improvement and a dust-shaker that by all accounts doesn’t work. The 30D was no upgrade, the 5D is overpriced (according to the market) and the 40D looks to be disappointing, (assuming the noise/DR are in line with the 400D), no new processor is a real kick.

I reckon that if the specs are right, the 40D will need to sell for half the 20D launch price to make customers any better off. I bet Canon would still make more margin than they did on the 20D at launch.

If it's true that the 40D has no new AF, no seals, imho pathetic res increase without ISO and/or DR improvement, negligible buffer increase; that simply cannot be the best the engineers at Canon can do in nearly 3 years of work.

I hope Canon have something more impressive for the pros and prosumers at PMA.

Also sad to see outright lies starting to come from the Canon marketing dept:

“The 22.5 x 15mm sensor size adds an effective 1.6x increase to the focal length of EF lenses, extending reach at the telephoto end.”

The ONLY thing that matters in terms of the ‘reach’ is the pixel pitch (and the focal length of the lens of course). Crop factor has nothing to do with it. Just how many pixels fit in a given area.

Perhaps that quote points to the whole spec being a hoax - in which case they got me! Let's hope so!

But if not, I'm off to get the pitchfork and torches ready for a visit to Canon marketing dept’s ivory tower and then I’ll bust the engineers out of their marketing prison. Who’s with me?!

Sorry if first post offends the fanboys who would pay for a turd if it had an anagram of Canon on it.

Back to lurking now. Needed to vent. Been waiting too long for the 20D upgrade and expected better. Please forgive me.
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OP Progress Lover Senior Member • Posts: 1,620
forgot to mention

Forgot to mention that the leap from D60 to 20D was also a leap in value as well as performance. D60 was EXPENSIVE.

Has the trend towards better value in the Canon DSLR system seems gone AWOL outiside ff? Are users of cropped sensors now subsidising FF?

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liquidstone
liquidstone Forum Pro • Posts: 10,096
This will extend the utility of my 20D....:)

If those specs are true, I'd pass too and just get a 400D to backstop my overworked 20D/350D.

Romy
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Dark Matter Regular Member • Posts: 229
Re: This will extend the utility of my 20D....:)

liquidstone wrote:

If those specs are true, I'd pass too and just get a 400D to
backstop my overworked 20D/350D.

Romy
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Thats exactly what i thought. I will remain with my 400D - at leats it is lighter and more compact camera than 40D.

OP Progress Lover Senior Member • Posts: 1,620
Re: This will extend the utility of my 20D....:)

Nice to see a couple of others are thinking the same.

Sorry for typo in title BTW! Must try harder in future. Obviously it should say 40D. Just realised the title might imply the post is another one about dust on a sensor! I've seen (and sadly read) plenty even more boring threads. Good lord!

Another reason why lurking is best.

See. Once I started I've gone from 0 - 5 in no time. Must resist the power of the forum to waste my time. It was just a rant!

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Topaz Contributing Member • Posts: 588
Worst. Rumors. Ever.

Look, I'm all in favor of rumors and wild speculation threads, but the "info" people are linking to today is ridiculous. As far as I can see, there is a broken link to a Canon site with "40d" in the URL, with no proof it ever worked. There is some typed-up marketing text with no proof it ever came from a Canon site. And the text is virtually identical to the 30D marketing blurb on hundreds of official Canon web sites, but with "8.1" replaced with "10.2" megapixels. Finally there's a link to some guy's personal home page called "eflens.com" where he put a blank space for a 40D. The people who posted all this stuff are probably laughing their asses off, watching all the fuss they started.

Let's save our energy until there are some real leaks, like the one here:
http://www.pbase.com/itj12345/image/55013576/original

MortenJensen Contributing Member • Posts: 541
Re: This will extend the utility of my 20D....:)

Well, yes, clearly disappointing if this being the case. But it just cannot be. Already the 30d was a disappointment - and more so since the xti was introduced only months later with the cleaning system.

On top of the specs listed on that site, the 40d would need most of the following not to be a disappointment:

  • digic III

  • ISO-program - an invention within canon dslrs.

  • a programmable button.

Many more things would be nice, but to me, the 40d would be a disappointment if it does not show some kind of change in Canon's design strategy by introducing new features instead of just new sensors. That is the bottom-line for me!

So, let's wait and see. This site can sure be a hoax. It doesn't really matter. Time will show.

Morten

d-og Regular Member • Posts: 417
Price point might be the only innovation…

Of course we're all just speculating, but I agree with your dissapointment the rumours turn out to be true.

But we must not forget: Price can be an innovation too. If this spec-wise lukewarm camera will be available for a real bargain price, then Canon just has a different, but valid take at how to bring technology to the masses – not by developing new techonology at each market level from scratch, but handing the established Camera models one level down.

With the original Rebel (300D), Canon has done a similar thing: They've dumbed down the 10D and sold it at a killer price nobody expected. The innovation here was offering the first affordable (=$1000) DSLR, something their rivals couldn't do for quite some time, and opened a new market for Canon.

That said, I'd rather see this strategy with the 5D than with the 30/40D – something like a "7D", a full frame camera at a break-through price. There, Canon could be ahead of the pack again, and since it hasn't been available yet, it would be innovative as well. Boring, maybe, if compared to Nikon's route of innovation, but getting the best bang for the buck is appealing as well.

Kind regards,
d-og

Boissez Contributing Member • Posts: 659
Re: 40 specs disappointing?

IF (big if) those specs are true then it's kinda disapointing. There's very little added value over a 400D IMHO. I'll just keep my 10D till it breaks

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fr0z Forum Member • Posts: 56
Re: 40 specs disappointing?

Lets copy 30d specs and then little guessing and thats it...

40d + digic II + discontinued Wireless File Transmitter WFT-E1 = no way!

OP Progress Lover Senior Member • Posts: 1,620
Re: Worst. Rumors. Ever.

I hope you're right.

30D, 400D and the conspicuously absent '3D' have got me and clearly some others worried enough to believe those specs though. That's a sad situation in itelf! Lol.

Hope it's a 'consipiracy' to lower our expectations so we're thrilled with the Sealed, Digic III, 12MP, ISO6400, HDR, 25RAW buffer, customizable buttoned, blah blah....40D! Somehow I doubt it.

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OP Progress Lover Senior Member • Posts: 1,620
Re: Price point might be the only innovation…

Agreed entirely. If it's cheap enough I'll take it back and buy one. But they'd have to drop the price of the 400D to sell me the 40D at that price!

BTW, I didn't notice until now the speculation about the 100-400 f4 for 2500 EUros. Now that's potentially interesting. Indeed, it may even be in itself a reason to finally get a 1 series. Not that I'm suggesting Canon would ever want to push us up the tree! HA HA.

I guess that if the new 1 series and that lens are both good enough, the 40D won't matter for for many as anything other than an economical backup. Still sad to see that area neglected and I would feel for anyone that couldn't justify or afford the extra money.

I get by with the 20D, and I don't want a brick like the current 1 series if I can avoid it. However I do want the sealing, the better AF and the buffer. Where is that 3D anyway?

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OP Progress Lover Senior Member • Posts: 1,620
Re: 40 specs disappointing?

Well, maybe there is hope. Perhaps it really is another hoax. I'd never have been happier to have been misled! Fingers X'd.

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Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 26,466
Re: 40 specs disappointing?

You're complaining about specs in a rumor?? Wait until Canon announces it.

Bernie_King Senior Member • Posts: 1,985
Re: Worst. Rumors. Ever.

Progress Lover wrote:

I hope you're right.
30D, 400D and the conspicuously absent '3D' have got me and clearly
some others worried enough to believe those specs though. That's a
sad situation in itelf! Lol.

Hope it's a 'consipiracy' to lower our expectations so we're
thrilled with the Sealed, Digic III, 12MP, ISO6400, HDR, 25RAW
buffer, customizable buttoned, blah blah....40D! Somehow I doubt it.

If those are your expectations, then you're just asking to be disappointed. You're not going to get a cropped 1 series camera for $1200! I think the web site is wrong, we'll more than likely get Digic III, maybe a bigger viewfinder (to compete with Pentax and D80), 10mp, Dust Removal (who cares), a better LCD, and maybe a slightly higher buffer. ISO 6400 would be nice, but they don't even have that in FF cameras yet -- how would they have it in a crop!

I also doubt they will ever weather seal an xxD camera. We may be crazy enough to buy L lenses with weather sealing, but I'm willing to bet that most people out there with a 30D are using EF lenses (or EF-S) and they're not sealed anyways so what's the point.

Fact of the matter is, that we don't know the specs and won't until there's a real announcement. Anyone who expects something earth shattering for $1200, however, is just setting themselves up disappointment.

subroc Senior Member • Posts: 1,096
Re: 40 specs disappointing?

How can one be disappointed in specifications (SPECS) that are just speculation (SPEC)? ;-)))))

pics_uk Regular Member • Posts: 107
Re: 40 specs disappointing?

subroc wrote:

How can one be disappointed in specifications (SPECS) that are just
speculation (SPEC)? ;-)))))

Welcome to PMA hysteria......

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Rowbear Senior Member • Posts: 1,684
Well said ;)

d-og wrote:

Of course we're all just speculating, but I agree with your
dissapointment the rumours turn out to be true.

But we must not forget: Price can be an innovation too. If this
spec-wise lukewarm camera will be available for a real bargain
price, then Canon just has a different, but valid take at how to
bring technology to the masses – not by developing new techonology
at each market level from scratch, but handing the established
Camera models one level down.

With the original Rebel (300D), Canon has done a similar thing:
They've dumbed down the 10D and sold it at a killer price nobody
expected. The innovation here was offering the first affordable
(=$1000) DSLR, something their rivals couldn't do for quite some
time, and opened a new market for Canon.

That said, I'd rather see this strategy with the 5D than with the
30/40D – something like a "7D", a full frame camera at a
break-through price. There, Canon could be ahead of the pack again,
and since it hasn't been available yet, it would be innovative as
well. Boring, maybe, if compared to Nikon's route of innovation,
but getting the best bang for the buck is appealing as well.

Kind regards,
d-og

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Duane Bong Senior Member • Posts: 2,494
Re: forgot to mention

I think you forgot there was a 10D inbetween. So the leaps were half the size of D60 to 20D.

Progress Lover wrote:

Forgot to mention that the leap from D60 to 20D was also a leap in

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RichW Forum Pro • Posts: 12,838
How can a rumor be disapointing?.....

If you don't like it make up another one.

Rich

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