How many people are sick of this stuff

But SLRs are not for everyone. SLRs require photographic knowledge,
skills, and experience. They're not "picture-taking" machines.
Film SLRs used to be "picture-taking" machines, basically for everyone. Recall the herds of SLR-touting tourists in the 80s. Why shouldn't DSLRs be for everyone? Admittedly, with knowledge, skill, and experience, you'll get better results, but that does not imply DSLRs is only for a smalll elite group.

Where is the digital equivalent of the Nikon FG with its small 50mm lens...
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Uzi
http://www.pbase.com/uyoeli
 
OK I want an affordable drug that cures all cancer.
I'm not ranting that canon has all junk here, I'm saying they
should have a better base standard is all.

Like we needed the dust software fix, more then having a AF that
still works at f8. The AF is limited by canon, TC that don't report
still AF don't they. And with the 400D XTi's new AF system would
work fairly good most likely.

a consumer f5.6 lens that has to be stopped down is worthless, and
not everyone has the money to buy all L lenses to fix the problem.
Maybe the hobby is for the rich only, that would be fine but why is
canon selling the rebels then.

And yes what about film cams, sorry but they set the standard with
them didn't they. But now they lower that standard with digital, I
do under stand they have a hard time making good wide angle primes.
But come on, if they can make better zoom wide angles high end
ones. Then they can make better wide angle primes, and it's not
only canon it's other makers as well.

I stayed with canon, because they had the best long end options.
But even then it's not the greatest, I would of wanted a $1.6-9k or
so 500mm f5.6L lens instead. Or even better how about a great 500mm
f5.6 none L lens, the cost even less for us that are not rich and
got to many bills to pay.

These limits are not that hard to over come, yes may be they can
not take real old lens designs. And keep making tons and tons of
money on them, like they have been doing but have to redesign newer
ones. If pentax can make great pancake lenses, and sell them at
such low prices that work great.

Then surly a giant like canon, should be able to fix these smaller
problems. But then again, may be canon really ant no gaint like
most of us think they are. Tamron has a 17-50mm that seems to be as
good, as canon L zoom lens. That is a stop faster, and at 1/2 the
price of canons L lens. What is up with that, yep it's limits and
that would seem to be on how much canon can make off us.

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http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=169695
 
Hello Everyone......

1) The dumb kit lens, no one wants the toy lens, give us a price
break on a good lens already.
Then buy the body alone. For often less than $100, the kit zoom is one of the best bargains in photography
2) Digital cams that will not AF anything past f5.6, come on we
want the AF to work at f8 as well.
You have that option with a 1-Series or buying glass that meets your performance criteria. Then again, after snarking about $100 for the kit lens, I suspect you're trying to get away with either TC's or inherently slower glass?
3) Slow f5.6 lens that are not sharp wide open, no one want to stop
the lens down to f8 or more to get sharp photos. They are nothing
more then a rip off, and worthless to most of us in real usage.
The 400 f/5.6 rocks and, the only downside I see to it compared to other current-generation lenses is IS. Otherwise, the Bigma, 70-300 IS, and many others are superb.
4) Sub par wide angle primes, it's pretty bad when a zoom takes
better wide angle shots over a prime. We want a great wide angle
prime already, that we don't need to empty our wallets on.
The 10-22 is superior, as is the 16-35, 17-40, and Sigma 12-24, a truly amazing lens. If you want prime alone, the 20, 35, and 50 are all excellent standard-series primes.
5) Why do we have to sell our house to buy a 500mm prime, when we
should be able to get a 500mm f5.6L lens. We spend $1k on a 400mm
f5.6L lens, then have problems 2 and 3 with a TC to get to 500mm.
Because at this point, they may have very well wanted to make one, and indeed probably have, but given the first four requests they probably figured they were in for more of a thankless headache than it was worth and punted.
You can add to the list, it's 5 things I'm sick of. It's not like
this stuff is cheap, and not like canon could not do it and still
make lots of money off us. And I'm not saying canon has all junk,
and that they don't have very high priced options.
Yeah, I want the sub $10,000 Bentley and Maserati too. Greedy b*stards all of 'em.
But they need to get better base standards, if you look at what we
are paying for the stuff. It's no wonder people are looking at
point n shoot options. When you have to pay so much out, and not
get a better base standard even.
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http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=169695
 
Film SLRs used to be "picture-taking" machines, basically for
everyone. Recall the herds of SLR-touting tourists in the 80s.
Why shouldn't DSLRs be for everyone?
Because expectations have gone WAY up since then. Now people expect completely accurate exposure, dead-on autofocus, and neutral white balance, all with zero input from the photographer. They expect to be able to shoot movies. They also expect perfect WYSIWYG capture, which they can do by viewing a screen held at arm's length. They get it from their digicams, and they darned well expect it of cameras that cost many times as much.

The SLR isn't going away—view cameras never went away. But SLRs will eventually be tools for those who are willing to go the extra mile to understand photography. For the vast majority of people who just want to take nice pictures, the EVIL camera will probably be the design of choice.
 
Or you could look at it like this.......

Canon had disabled options on their 300D rebel, it was about making more money while saving money at the same time. Now using IS to replace faster lenses, makes them more money as they sell faster lenses better as well. They can charge more for the IS, and sell faster lenses as well because IS only works so much.

Having a limit on AF working at f5.6, also sell higher price faster lenses for them. Also making sure the high ISO don't work great, also sells high priced faster lenses. Why because of the noise that is why, faster lenses fix that problem also. I think canon is doing this for money pure and smiple, not because they can't or it would cost them to much.

I already said they had high priced options, but that is my hole point to this. The base standard is being held back, to sell high priced options I think. Canon can make lower priced EFS mount options, many of us would buy them and be fine with that. How about a EFS 500mm f5.6 prime, smaller and lower priced to boot.

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http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=169695
 
Or you could look at it like this.......

Canon had disabled options on their 300D rebel, it was about making
more money while saving money at the same time. Now using IS to
replace faster lenses, makes them more money as they sell faster
lenses better as well. They can charge more for the IS, and sell
faster lenses as well because IS only works so much.

Having a limit on AF working at f5.6, also sell higher price faster
lenses for them. Also making sure the high ISO don't work great,
also sells high priced faster lenses. Why because of the noise that
is why, faster lenses fix that problem also. I think canon is doing
this for money pure and smiple, not because they can't or it would
cost them to much.

I already said they had high priced options, but that is my hole
point to this. The base standard is being held back, to sell high
priced options I think. Canon can make lower priced EFS mount
options, many of us would buy them and be fine with that. How about
a EFS 500mm f5.6 prime, smaller and lower priced to boot.
This just shows that you do not understand the technologies involved, sorry. EF-S may save size slightly on wide angle lenses, but a 500mm EF-S lens will be the same size and weight as an equivalent EF lens.

--
Misha
 
The glass lenses are what make the EF 500 f4 lens so big, by cutting the lens by 1 stop. And by being able to use less glass because of the crop senor, it should be smaller for sure. That is because the crop senor, only uses the center part of full frame lenses right ?

It would be shorter and thinner as well, to get more light throw the smaller glass lenses. It would be a prime meaning less glass, so why can't they make one smaller and cheaper then ?
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http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=169695
 
Or you could look at it like this.......

Canon had disabled options on their 300D rebel, it was about making
more money while saving money at the same time. Now using IS to
replace faster lenses, makes them more money as they sell faster
lenses better as well. They can charge more for the IS, and sell
faster lenses as well because IS only works so much.

Having a limit on AF working at f5.6, also sell higher price faster
lenses for them. Also making sure the high ISO don't work great,
also sells high priced faster lenses. Why because of the noise that
is why, faster lenses fix that problem also. I think canon is doing
this for money pure and smiple, not because they can't or it would
cost them to much.

I already said they had high priced options, but that is my hole
point to this. The base standard is being held back, to sell high
priced options I think. Canon can make lower priced EFS mount
options, many of us would buy them and be fine with that. How about
a EFS 500mm f5.6 prime, smaller and lower priced to boot.

--
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=169695
 
Or you could look at it like this.......

Canon had disabled options on their 300D rebel, it was about making
more money while saving money at the same time. Now using IS to
replace faster lenses, makes them more money as they sell faster
lenses better as well. They can charge more for the IS, and sell
faster lenses as well because IS only works so much.
And so, anything Canon should do in its own interests that doesn't also happen to provide a commensurate benefit to you as well is some sort of transgression on their part?
Having a limit on AF working at f5.6, also sell higher price faster
lenses for them. Also making sure the high ISO don't work great,
also sells high priced faster lenses. Why because of the noise that
is why, faster lenses fix that problem also. I think canon is doing
this for money pure and smiple, not because they can't or it would
cost them to much.
Again, this is unreasonable... why? Revenues, market share, and results would seem to indicate they're making some pretty wise business decisions that haven't been keeping the public away in droves... Hell, why stop at Canon? Why aren't you screaming your head off at Leica and Hassie?
I already said they had high priced options, but that is my hole
point to this. The base standard is being held back, to sell high
priced options I think. Canon can make lower priced EFS mount
options, many of us would buy them and be fine with that. How about
a EFS 500mm f5.6 prime, smaller and lower priced to boot.
Well, I choose not to speak to your "hole" point, (for several reasons), but I'm very interested in why Canon or photography is different from anything else to the extent that if it's so offesnively-priced and short on value, I'd suggest just not buying it and being happy instead. I mean, come on. To what extent are they supposed to do things at their own expense just to make YOU happy? Perhaps you could include your suggestion to CAJ HQ along with the affidavit from your employer that you've decided to lower your own pay rate because you could still do your job without all those unnecessary and excessive wages they've been paying.
 
Hello Everyone......

1) The dumb kit lens, no one wants the toy lens, give us a price
break on a good lens already.
I agree.... It should be better. Great, you can stop down to f/8 and get an ok shot at certain focal lengths.

I know many people that have bought a Canon DSLR camera with the kit lens and have tried very hard to get the quality of photos that the television commericals suggest (sports photos of the kids, etc) and gave up after a few months. The cameras now get little use... because they tried to use the kit lens in ways that it does poorly at.
2) Digital cams that will not AF anything past f5.6, come on we
want the AF to work at f8 as well.
This is a marketing limitation by Canon and I agree that it is dumb. Let me stick any lens on there that I want and it AF works then great. If it does not, then that's ok too. Instead 3rd party manufacturers have to create lense that lie (Simga 50-500mm), or we have to buy teleconverters that lie, or we have to tape pins. Silly stuff.
3) Slow f5.6 lens that are not sharp wide open, no one want to stop
the lens down to f8 or more to get sharp photos. They are nothing
more then a rip off, and worthless to most of us in real usage.
Usually these are the cheap lenses anyway. It's kind of like the cheap stereo receiver that says it does 100 watts of power to all 5 speakers. Sure, it can send a 100 watts to each, but with so much distortion that the sound is awful.

I guess with lenses you get what you pay for. The cheap Sigma 70-300mm APO is a good example. It is fairly poor.
4) Sub par wide angle primes, it's pretty bad when a zoom takes
better wide angle shots over a prime. We want a great wide angle
prime already, that we don't need to empty our wallets on.
Hmmm... I have no experience since I use the Canon 10-22mm (and like it very much).

I would love to have a 20mm f/1.4 that is sharp at 1.4.
5) Why do we have to sell our house to buy a 500mm prime, when we
should be able to get a 500mm f5.6L lens. We spend $1k on a 400mm
f5.6L lens, then have problems 2 and 3 with a TC to get to 500mm.
I would love a 500mm (or even 600mm) f/5.6. I have the 400mm f/5.6 and absolutely enjoy how light and sharp it is. I really don't need f/4 for this range.

I've been thinking about the Sigmonster, but would rather get a Canmonster. :)

What else do I think Canon could do better at in the lower end models, especially after recently looking at the current (much less expensive) Canon film bodies features:

1) Better viewfinders.... like the D200

2) More flexible all-points focus (I really could use the option to focus on the closest detected subject).
3) Better weather sealing
4) Better grip (maybe a way to expand it for larger hands)
5) Auto ISO (with limits you can set for AV mode)
6) More and wider spread autofocus points

These are all things that would not add a great deal to the cost of the camera, especially since they are mass produced and available in much cheaper film bodies.

Overall, I love my Canon setup and would not think of changing. I've spent a lot of money with them... and this is after swearing I would never buy a Canon product after working in their factory (laser printer and copier) for a few years in the late 1980s. This was not because of their quality (I actually worked in the Quality Assurance division), but because of how they treated their employees. Hopefully it has gotten better since.

--
Sayer
Galleries: http://PBase.com/Sayer
Website: http://sayersweb.com/photography/
 
and a 500 5.6 light weight.

Holding out for both, which once you have good glass it's pretty hard to step back in to the consumer ring. Although I would, if and when they catch up.

I admit, I often wonder how I got to spending so much! Especially on 10 year old lenses!
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Linda~ http://soulswithin.u.yuku.com/
You don't take a photograph. You ask, quietly, to borrow it. Author Unknown
 
I just put out close to $2k for a 400D Xti, and a 400mm f5.6L prime that I have a 300 pro DG 1.4 TC already. But I must type pins or buy a none reporting TC, and I'm sure with the XTI new AF system it would AF at f8, if canon would not have limited the AF to f5.6.

I got the 400mm f5.6L prime, because it's a fine lens and the best telephoto I can buy. If I had the funds I would of loved to buy a 500mm f4L prime, but more likely I could of got some more funds for a 500mm f5.6L prime. Or how about a none L 500mm f5.6 prime, I can be careful when I'm using it like I done with my 300D rebel.

And like my cheap canon 50mm f1.8 prime, it would match the build of my new 400D XTI as well. As I said before, even a EFS 500mm f5.6 would be great as well. But I would think a 3rd party maker, may well make one before canon does.
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http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=169695
 
( I would love to have a 20mm f/1.4 that is sharp at 1.4. )

I started looking for a wide angle prime, for land scape and a fast indoors prime as well. But the wide angle primes have problems, and seeing how good the zooms like the canon 10-22mm do. I'm wondering why I can't get a great wide med priced prime, like I really want instead of a zoom that I don't want.

You added some really great stuff, that canon could do to make a better base standard. And you are right, I love canon but it's been a long time from when the first 300D rebel hit the stores.

And I got the 300D rebel not long after it come out, and when I added the hack to it. I felt like I had got a 10D at a great price, my reason for getting that rebel was the low cost. And being able to have much more control it gave me, my E20N did not let me have the control I needed at the time. Being able to change lenses, also made the choice easy for me.

I also got the 400D xti for the same reasons, I had a bigma and canon 300mm f4L prime already. The 300mm f4L was great but to short, adding a TC just did not give me what the bare lens did. The 400mm f5.6L I got because, it's the longest I can buy at the telephoto end. But adding a TC to a body that will not AF at f8, just seems really dumb as canon put that limit on it.

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http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=169695I
 
So I don't see a problem for you.

The real problem is you don't know the workiing of the camrea system but Canon does. If Canon think a particular camera has the capability to AF with ALL f8 lenses under any lighting conditions they will allow it. Apparently Canon thinks 1 series camera can meet this requirement but xti can't.

It is ridiculus to accuse Canon of deliberately put this limit in order to sell more fast lenses. Like they are trying to sell those lenses to the xti owner but not 1 series owner.
I just put out close to $2k for a 400D Xti, and a 400mm f5.6L prime
that I have a 300 pro DG 1.4 TC already. But I must type pins or
buy a none reporting TC,
 
Well canon should not put a limit on it, if it will not AF that good then that is fine. But a lot of the AF depends on the lenses being used, like the 400mm f5.6L has a great AF and may well work slower but fine at f8.

If I had the money for a 1 series camera, I would just buy a 500mm f4L lens instead. Are you saying canon is beyond dumb down cams, to sell other higher price gear. Well take a good look at the 300D rebel, they dumbed it down that is a fact.

I have a 300D rebel, and the hack that turns on the 10D options works great. Many also feel they dumbed down the 5D, so it's not like canon is beyond dumbing stuff down to sell other gear more. And that is why they done the stuff I said most likely, dumb the stuff down and sell more faster high priced lenses.
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http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=169695
 
it's the guy behind the camera that counts
yeah I'm sick of pointless sophomore rants about the supposed
"limitiations" of our equipment.
--
Member of The Pet Rock Owners and Breeders Association
Boarding and Training at Reasonable Rates
Photons by the bag.
-----.....------

if I mock you, it may be well deserved.
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
I can crop at the long end myself if I want to

http://supermasj.zenfolio.com/
 
for adding TC. ifyou add a canon TC to the 400 f5.6 it will not autofocus
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It's spelt Lens or lenses for more than one
 
Well canon should not put a limit on it, if it will not AF that
good then that is fine. But a lot of the AF depends on the lenses
being used, like the 400mm f5.6L has a great AF and may well work
slower but fine at f8.
Just tape the pins, what's the big problem? :)

--
Misha
 

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