10mp 10fps 1.3 crop

Started Feb 17, 2007 | Discussions
Radek Tezaur Regular Member • Posts: 411
Re: Another history lesson, Pete:

T'Pol wrote:

T3 wrote:

Probably the more
likely reason is that Canon developed the process to grow the
fluorite crystals, and Nikon didn't.

You may be surprised to learn, Pete, that Nikon have been using
fluorite since the 1960s in their microscopes and the odd
micro[macro] lens. Once they developed ED glass in the 70s, they
discontinued the use of Fluorite in all but microscopy where it is
still used to this day, produced [grown] in-house at Nikon's
fluorite facility.

I imagine the lenses in a super-telephoto lens are much larger than those in a microscope.

Clearly then, Nikon have had the ability and technology to produce
fluorite lenses for over 40 years. They just choose not to use them
in their long teles due to fluorite's widely known drawbacks of
being susceptible to higher thermal changes in it's refractive
index [hence the white lenses], thermal and physical shock. Whether

Choices often comes down to cost. Will they volunteer that info?

or not these drawbacks often present themselves in ordinary lens
use is moot. They exist, and companies have to assess these
drawbacks on their merits. Nikon choose to avoid fluorite in camera
lenses, Canon choose to embrace it.

I wonder what drawbacks Canon see in providing modern battery
technology to the 1-series?

Compatibility. But Canon will draw the line at some point.

Or adding GPS support to the
1-series/xxD series?

Once again you've tried to declare that Nikon do something because
they can't do what Canon does, rather than because it's just better
if they hadn't. And once more, you've been shown to be talking from
where the sun don't shine.

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'Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.' - Dubbya, the leader of the free world, 8/5/04

snackwells Regular Member • Posts: 141
Go away, and quit being argumentative for arguement sake.

No Text = NT

Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,362
1D Mark III is coming in fall of 2007

PMA already is overloaded with 40D, 5DN, 4000D, and 1Ds3. So don't expect 1D3 before fall. The specs are correct though: 10.5 mp, 1.3x, 10 fps.

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Riku Contributing Member • Posts: 742
I agree,

this is just too much Julia. I really don't know what Nikon have been telling you but I know from my OWN experiense that Canons L lenses (with fluorite) can take some very hard drops so this is really a non issue. If there actually would be a problem you would have heard about here. I have been reading these forums (and others) for six years and I can't remember one single complaint about the durability of the fluorite element.

thx1138 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,162
Re: 27pt AF is an upgrade? NT

T3 wrote:

thx1138 wrote:

In the case of the curent 1 series the smaller F point is less
sensitive to low light as Canon have explained.

Less sensitive than what? Less sensitive than their lower-density
AF arrays? Less sensitive than previous 1 series AF arrays? They
may be less sensitive, but I doubt that is specifically due to the
size of the actual focus point. It may be due to the density of
the focus array, since a higher density of focus points means there
is a lot more information for the AF CPU to process. Or did they
decide that, because they were going to have MORE AF points, that
they would have to make all of them LESS sensitive to light? I'm
not sure that I buy that. So does that mean that, if they halved
the number of AF points, they would then automatically increase the
sensitivity of those remaining points? I'm not sure I buy that

Why does the 20D AF work at -0.5 EV and the 1D II only goes to 0 EV. Canon have stated themselves the 20D AF is more sensitive in low light as the specs show, due to the larger size of the AF sensors.

You sound like you know a lot about AF, send Chuck a email and discuss it with him.

thx1138 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,162
Re: Pretty lame update if that's it.

T3 wrote:

thx1138 wrote:

tsiphoto wrote:

it's coming....

Wow after 3 years we get 2MP and 2fps; I'm excited, NOT.

Did he say those are the ONLY improvements? Of course not. It's a
little pre-mature to write this new model off, don't you think?
Besides, would you really be happier if it had 3mp more (and
probably more noise) and 3fps more? I think 10mp and 10fps is
plenty for the sports/pj/general pro at which this camera will be
targeted. Besides, there isn't a DSLR camera on the market that
can do 10fps. And furthermore, Nikon's "sports" cameras only offer
4mp (D2Hs) and 6.8mp (D2Xs in HSC mode). If this model is real, it
will offer 10mp at 10fps, which has never been offered before in
any model, and may be the only model on the market which offers
such a spec. It seems like you just want more for more's sake,
without any practical or contextual considerations about what those
specs really mean when compared to the rest of the market.

They were his headline acts; they are the highlights, and they are lame if that's the case.

Julia Borg Veteran Member • Posts: 7,280
after you :) /nt
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Julia Borg Veteran Member • Posts: 7,280
Re: I agree,

Riku wrote:

If there actually would be a problem you would
have heard about here.

if one would pay attention to everything that can be heard here, and not paying attention to things not mentioned here, he/she would be mad as a hatter.

I'm certainly happy your lenses withstand drops. I try to take as few risks as possible.

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Jim F. Senior Member • Posts: 2,633
And you know this how?

Where did this information come from that gives it any more credence over the other "rumors"?

Since everyone seems to think that their "assertions" are gospel, how about some proof?

iano Senior Member • Posts: 1,894
the target market for new models is not always the prior model

Canon updates the product lineup to a schedule.
Goals for new models are:-

  • improve competitive position

  • improve margin

Sometimes, like the 30D, the major achievement is to improve margin. Canon did not target 20D owners, simply people who were buying a camera at that market point. If choosing between canon and competitors, they figured the 30D gave an improved chance the canon would be chosen.

Down at the rebel level, canon hope only new DSLR purchases will buy, and that prior rebel owners will move up the range when they upgrade. At the 1D end of the range the focus is the proffessional. If you make your living from your equipment, then yes a small improvement may justify having the latest, but again they update the unit in production simply to bring what improvements they have to market and give the highest probability they can a buyer will buy canon.

For the professional sports shooter any improvement in FPS increases the chance your burst will include that magic shot you are seeking, but mostly when it is time (for depreciation or wear) to buy a new body, you buy what is available. This market is about selling lenses, not bodies. Bodies are cheap.

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Steven Noyes Forum Pro • Posts: 12,382
Funniest post here.

And that is saying allot on this thread. Lets see....

10mp @ 10fps in a tank like body with top of class AF....

It is a yawn so....

10mp @ 3fps and so-so AF is where the excitement is.

Yep. Great jump.


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Steven Noyes Forum Pro • Posts: 12,382
I love the 45 pt. 27 pt wuld be a step down.

Unless they did some other types of massive improvements on the AF in precision/speed/sensititivy/...


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Terry Sessford Senior Member • Posts: 2,497
Totally agree

Claire Dupuis wrote:

The x 1.3 body is IDEAL for me, I'll buy one if it's a normal size
body, not the 1 series with integrated grip. Any idea on this ???


My thoughts exactly. I like the spec, but not with an integrated grip.


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Peter Carmichael Contributing Member • Posts: 727
Re: 10mp 10fps 1.3 crop

Just pointing out that a 10MP 1.3x crop is just about the same pixel density as the 1DSmkII.

I'm merely commenting to put this spec in perspective. If we want to gauge how far Canon's sensor technology (quantum efficiency) has moved forward, this will make a very interesting comparison to the 1DSmkII sensor and one can only imagine that it must be superior to that model, particularly in low light/high ISO, to support the needs of the sport shooter.

For the many voices who are regarding this spec as unexciting, I'd comment that if it is well executed it represents a very exciting development. However, the 10MP 400D sensor doesn't show any precedent for large strides in quantum efficiency/fill factor/bayer matrix efficiency.

I would prefer to see 10MP @ 5fps 1.3x crop being announced for the 30D replacement, showing up the D200 in all IQ regards. However, this would relegate EF-S lenses to the Rebel class of cameras only, so it seems unlikely.

Seaclam Senior Member • Posts: 1,703
Re: Go away, and quit being argumentative for arguement sake.

What do you expect, Julia is a Nikon troll. Look at her posts. She comes in here with this attitude that the Nikon teles are better(I'm trying not to laugh), when clearly if that was the case, you'd see a sea of black Nikon's at sporting events instead of the sea of white Canon's. Get a grip Julia, they are not better than Canon's.......PERIOD. That doesn't come from some fanboy, but from realworld experience that everyone can see from sporting event to sporting event, entertainment event to entertainment event and of course not to mention birding/wildlife.

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I have a love affair with light.

Julia Borg Veteran Member • Posts: 7,280
Re: Go away, and quit being argumentative for arguement sake.

Seaclam wrote:

What do you expect, Julia is a Nikon troll.

LOL. you should know better.

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Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,362
Re: And you know this how?

Jim F. wrote:

Where did this information come from that gives it any more
credence over the other "rumors"?

I don't claim "more credence".

Since everyone seems to think that their "assertions" are gospel,
how about some proof?

No "gospel", just logical projections. Canon cannot upset its distribution chain by replacing more than 2 models at a time, but it can introduce new additional models on top of that. The only Canon model that successfully sells now is 400D. The sales of 350D, 30D, and 5D are killed by Nikon D40, D80, and D200 respectively. (I am not talking of the pro models, cause they always sell only a handful anyway). Having lost #1 market share position to Nikon, Canon urgently needs to replace these 3 models. To prepare its distributors, Canon stops supplying 350D (the current model competing with D40) to retail stores and announces large double rebates on 30D and 5D to clear the stock and then extends the rebates almost until the new announcements proving these 2 models are being replaced. Than we see on one of Canon's web sites "350D discontinued" proving that 4000D is coming soon to compete with D40. So here you are: 350D, 30D, and 5D are no more.

The new specs are easy to guess. 4000D is a repackaged 350D with face recognition and the same 8.0-mp sensor - still 2 mp more than D40. 3 fps of course. Anti-dust? Possible, but doubtful. Entry level users don't change lenses often.

40D is 30D with the technologies first released in 400D and G7: 5.7-micron pixel (10.4 mp) and anti-dust plus Digic III, but same 5 fps; 6 is possible, but doubtful, as it would compete with 3D on fall.

5DN is a facelift of 5D with the same (only quicker) sensor, 12.7 mp, anti-dust, Digic III, and 4 or 5 fps - either speed is easily possible, so it is a purely marketing decision by Canon. I hope it will be 5 to compete with D200. One of Canon's main goals with 5D is to reduce the cost and price (hence the $600 rebate), so a new plastic EOS-3 like body is very possible.

This brings us to the flagship model that is getting quite old. 2007 is Canon's 70-year anniversary and a 20-year anniversary of the EOS system, and PMA is the biggest photo event of the year. There is no way Canon misses it to announce 1Ds3. The projection based on the megapixel grid and a decade-long trend gives 21.0 mp output resolution for the new model:

; (ignore the "3D" label there)

; (add 5DN for spring 2007)

How can Canon introduce yet another model? Because it will not replace 1ds2, but will be an addition to the lineup. Clearly, not every pro would switch from 17 mp to 21 mp, so 1Ds2 will remain much like 350D remained after the introduction of 400D. But not forever. 1Ds2 will be discontinued in fall with the introduction of 3D at 16.5 mp. It will finally push pros to 1Ds3 without doing it in spring. So watch for a big rebate on 1Ds2 in fall.

Finally to your question, why 1D3 in fall? Historically 1D models have been introduced shortly after 1Ds models. With this year anniversaries, this fall is a perfect opportunity. If Canon wanted to replace 1D in spring, the model would be announced at the superbowl like it was in the past. But now it wasn't. So watch for a big rebate on 1DN2 inf all as well.

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Press Correspondent
Press Correspondent Veteran Member • Posts: 3,362
PS - 1D3 specs

Oh, and the specs of 1D3 come from the same trends linked in my previous message: 1.3x and 10.5 mp. The speed of 10 fps comes from (1) the mechanical speed of the top film model and (2) 105 mp/sec throughput required for 1Ds3 to operate at 5fps for 21 mp. Sony just introduces a sensor with the 384 mp/sec throughput, so 105 mp/sec doesn't seem impossible. Anti-dust is given, of course.

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Trevor Allen Senior Member • Posts: 1,123
Re: 10mp 10fps 1.3 crop

a crop from a full frame sensor, like an improved 5D sensor?, formulated from info that I've read today on here


konicapan New Member • Posts: 6
Re: 10mp 10fps 1.3 crop

Sorry to rain on the parade but i received word from Canon USA (i'm a Canon dealer) that there will be no news DSLR releases until the second half of the year.

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