2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

Started Jan 5, 2007 | Discussions
OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: LBA FA50mm ; why manual focus ???

Im not sure what youre getting at here? The AF was very bad with the FA50mm at first so I had to focus manually to get my object in focus - then I threw the battery in the charger and with a full charge the AF was much better. What doesnt make sense?

D TONG wrote:

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

D TONG wrote:

We look forward to see some of your LBA pict. Apparently you like
the lens a lot.
It is really fast in focusing. Why did you use manual? Very unusual
indeed

I will most definetely shoot some pics with the lens soon and post
another set.

I like the lens a lot since I love the M 50mm f1.4 I own and this
is practically the same lens but with auto focus, etc.. So I
naturally love this one too. Its the M in modern form in a plastic
body and the focusing is still nice and smooth - but not nearly as
smooth and it doesnt have that heavy feel of the focusing action of
the M of course.

I used manual focus because I had to - It doesnt focus on what I
want it to focus on with AF and I used manual exposure testing the
exposure with the green button in M mode because I encountered this
problem when I was using the M 50mm too so I wanted to see if it
was a lens problem (aperture blades old, misadligned, etc.)

That does not make any sense. Did you use spot focus? You are
saying you have to do manual focusing on your FA50mm 1.4. Its focus
ring is not meant to be top notch

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Sinan

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OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: Does this not simply mean..

Yes I think it might and a reason why it may not be noticeable is most things I shoot at night outdoors may be focused on infinity so there may less room for error - anyways I will test it out indoors and outdoors tonight and see how it fares - I'm pretty sure its the low incandescent indoor lighting that throws it off the most when the battery is down. Anyways - I will try again tonight - my battery is fully charged and I will see how it focuses and about at what point the accuracy starts going down and at what point it starts to be completely off everytime.

lock wrote:

...that the battery supplied is simply too weak ? And yes, it would
suffer from misfocus as well in nomral light as well. Especially in
low light outdoor conditions. Can you check this ?
Btw, there are stronger batteries available for the k10d ( heard of
1850 mAh).

lock

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Sinan

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D TONG Senior Member • Posts: 2,559
FA50mm AF very bad? Pardon me?

You said right from the beginning

"I got my FA50 f/1.4 - oh what a sweet lens. Very sharp, awesome bokeh but not distinguishable from my M50mm f1.4 for IQ -"

I thought you are happy with FA50mm1.4.

And if you change your mind that its autofocus is very bad, there are thousand in here who would confirm that it is not. And I am definitely the first one.

Try it this way. Go into a pitch dark small room and use FA50mm1.4 and the built in flash, its autofocus has no trouble at all. That tell you all.
Try it yourself.

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

Im not sure what youre getting at here? The AF was very bad with
the FA50mm at first so I had to focus manually to get my object in
focus - then I threw the battery in the charger and with a full
charge the AF was much better. What doesnt make sense?

Daniel, Toronto
http://www.pbase.com/danieltong

OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: FA50mm AF very bad? Pardon me?

Hi Daniel, you are missing the point - the problem is NOT with the lens as I stated in my first post - the problem is with the camera!

The FA50 is fine - it is almost identical if not identical to the M 50 I own in terms of IQ and yes that makes me very happy - the focusing problem is not a problem with the FA50 - it is a K10 problem (in fact I think a battery problem) and it does it with ALL auto focus lenses not just the FA50. There is nothing to debate about the FA50 here its a fine lens and it works as promised - its the AF accuracy of the camera in indoor tungsten lighting that is the real issue. I think however that has a lot to with the battery level however as even after a little depletion of the battery the AF seems to suffer but with a full charged battery it is very good. I

D TONG wrote:
You said right from the beginning

"I got my FA50 f/1.4 - oh what a sweet lens. Very sharp, awesome
bokeh but not distinguishable from my M50mm f1.4 for IQ -"

I thought you are happy with FA50mm1.4.

And if you change your mind that its autofocus is very bad, there
are thousand in here who would confirm that it is not. And I am
definitely the first one.

Try it this way. Go into a pitch dark small room and use
FA50mm1.4 and the built in flash, its autofocus has no trouble at
all. That tell you all.
Try it yourself.

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

Im not sure what youre getting at here? The AF was very bad with
the FA50mm at first so I had to focus manually to get my object in
focus - then I threw the battery in the charger and with a full
charge the AF was much better. What doesnt make sense?

Daniel, Toronto
http://www.pbase.com/danieltong

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Sinan

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OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Here this is my quote

"Now with that out of the way - I have two issues and they are not concerning the lens which is superb but with the K10 one of them is not so major the one is major IMO

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Sinan

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Alfisti Veteran Member • Posts: 6,649
Don't listen to the nay sayers

Apparently you are a fool and do not know how to use a camera.

There are dozens of threads here where folks are 100% certain their camera is front focussing under incandescant light. Mine only does it with the FA50 1.4 but it does it, it very, very, very clearly bloody well does it.

I use a tripod, i use AF-S, i know what point i am selecting etc etc etc etc ... it front focusses, it just does.

Don't start doubting yourself with all these "are you sure you know what you are doing posts" that irritate the cr@p out of me.

Either learn to live with it or sell up and buy a D80 which i'd do in a heartbeat if Nikon lenses were half the price they are ... and half the size/weight.

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OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: Don't listen to the nay sayers

First of all, chill out and watch your manners and condescending tone, I'll be the bigger man here and not insult you back.

Now. If you had read my posts you can see that I am 90% sure that my AF problems have to do with the battery - I know this because I tested it - not because someone else tested and I believed them. I also stated that I have my battery in the charger again and when I get back home I am going to retest and see if it really is a battery problem - because the difference was like day and night last night as far as AF accuracy goes with a fully charged and a close to being depleted battery. Whatever I find tonight I will post it and reconfirm my findings - so just hold your horses. Many are saying they are not encountering FF problems and some are - so its a mixed bag and when it is such I am not going to take anyone's side - I will do my own tests (taking into account suggestions I read here like the battery level which seem to affecet the AF accuracy) and come to my own conclusion - I will do that tonight so again hold your horses and wait till ive made my mind up 100%.

Alfisti wrote:

Apparently you are a fool and do not know how to use a camera.

There are dozens of threads here where folks are 100% certain their
camera is front focussing under incandescant light. Mine only does
it with the FA50 1.4 but it does it, it very, very, very clearly
bloody well does it.

I use a tripod, i use AF-S, i know what point i am selecting etc
etc etc etc ... it front focusses, it just does.

Don't start doubting yourself with all these "are you sure you know
what you are doing posts" that irritate the cr@p out of me.

Either learn to live with it or sell up and buy a D80 which i'd do
in a heartbeat if Nikon lenses were half the price they are ... and
half the size/weight.

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Sinan

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Alfisti Veteran Member • Posts: 6,649
Hey I am on your side

might want to re-read, i was backing you up chief.

Sinan Tarlan wrote:
First of all, chill out and watch your manners and condescending
tone, I'll be the bigger man here and not insult you back.

Now. If you had read my posts you can see that I am 90% sure that
my AF problems have to do with the battery - I know this because I
tested it - not because someone else tested and I believed them. I
also stated that I have my battery in the charger again and when I
get back home I am going to retest and see if it really is a
battery problem - because the difference was like day and night
last night as far as AF accuracy goes with a fully charged and a
close to being depleted battery. Whatever I find tonight I will
post it and reconfirm my findings - so just hold your horses. Many
are saying they are not encountering FF problems and some are - so
its a mixed bag and when it is such I am not going to take anyone's
side - I will do my own tests (taking into account suggestions I
read here like the battery level which seem to affecet the AF
accuracy) and come to my own conclusion - I will do that tonight so
again hold your horses and wait till ive made my mind up 100%.

Alfisti wrote:

Apparently you are a fool and do not know how to use a camera.

There are dozens of threads here where folks are 100% certain their
camera is front focussing under incandescant light. Mine only does
it with the FA50 1.4 but it does it, it very, very, very clearly
bloody well does it.

I use a tripod, i use AF-S, i know what point i am selecting etc
etc etc etc ... it front focusses, it just does.

Don't start doubting yourself with all these "are you sure you know
what you are doing posts" that irritate the cr@p out of me.

Either learn to live with it or sell up and buy a D80 which i'd do
in a heartbeat if Nikon lenses were half the price they are ... and
half the size/weight.

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OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Sorry I did misread

OK so the your a fool thing was sarcastic I see now - my bad!

Alfisti wrote:
might want to re-read, i was backing you up chief.

Sinan Tarlan wrote:
First of all, chill out and watch your manners and condescending
tone, I'll be the bigger man here and not insult you back.

Now. If you had read my posts you can see that I am 90% sure that
my AF problems have to do with the battery - I know this because I
tested it - not because someone else tested and I believed them. I
also stated that I have my battery in the charger again and when I
get back home I am going to retest and see if it really is a
battery problem - because the difference was like day and night
last night as far as AF accuracy goes with a fully charged and a
close to being depleted battery. Whatever I find tonight I will
post it and reconfirm my findings - so just hold your horses. Many
are saying they are not encountering FF problems and some are - so
its a mixed bag and when it is such I am not going to take anyone's
side - I will do my own tests (taking into account suggestions I
read here like the battery level which seem to affecet the AF
accuracy) and come to my own conclusion - I will do that tonight so
again hold your horses and wait till ive made my mind up 100%.

Alfisti wrote:

Apparently you are a fool and do not know how to use a camera.

There are dozens of threads here where folks are 100% certain their
camera is front focussing under incandescant light. Mine only does
it with the FA50 1.4 but it does it, it very, very, very clearly
bloody well does it.

I use a tripod, i use AF-S, i know what point i am selecting etc
etc etc etc ... it front focusses, it just does.

Don't start doubting yourself with all these "are you sure you know
what you are doing posts" that irritate the cr@p out of me.

Either learn to live with it or sell up and buy a D80 which i'd do
in a heartbeat if Nikon lenses were half the price they are ... and
half the size/weight.

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Sinan

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Alfisti Veteran Member • Posts: 6,649
Re: Sorry I did misread

No worries.

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

OK so the your a fool thing was sarcastic I see now - my bad!

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D TONG Senior Member • Posts: 2,559
FA50mm AF very bad? Why manual focus ?

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

"Now with that out of the way - I have two issues and they are not
concerning the lens which is superb but with the K10 one of them is
not so major the one is major IMO

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XavierP56 Contributing Member • Posts: 939
Re: Cideway & Jan and others

The underexposure / overexposure seems to be a firmware bug but the amount seems reasonnable if you shoot RAW so even if you don't compensate for it at shooting time, I believe you have good pictures anyway ?

Am I wrong ?

paulkienitz
paulkienitz Veteran Member • Posts: 5,458
Re: Does this not simply mean..

I would expect that in sunlight, it should do pretty well even when the battery is lower.

Maybe they did just make the battery a little too weak for the system... but I'm not sure that adding more mAH to the battery would fix this. That's a measure of total energy capacity. Maybe what it needs is higher peak current -- that is to say, lower internal resistance. To make an analogy with an automotive battery, it probably wants more "cold-cranking amps". Like an Optima Red-Top, whereas one with added mAH would correspond to an Optima Yellow-Top. Of course, improvements in one area might bring along improvements in the other, you never know 'til you try.

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OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: Does this not simply mean..

I agree, the mAH shouldnt affect the performance - it will affect the battery life lenght (ie, maybe 650 shots instead of 600, etc.) if say I used a 1700mAh battery instead of a 1600 mAh battery but the actual peak power will not change I believe. I dont expecet batteries with more mAH to do anything other than increase battery life - but hey you never know with these funky electronics. Anyways - I will try some shooting tonight to see if I get the same results as last night.

paulkienitz wrote:

I would expect that in sunlight, it should do pretty well even when
the battery is lower.

Maybe they did just make the battery a little too weak for the
system... but I'm not sure that adding more mAH to the battery
would fix this. That's a measure of total energy capacity. Maybe
what it needs is higher peak current -- that is to say, lower
internal resistance. To make an analogy with an automotive
battery, it probably wants more "cold-cranking amps". Like an
Optima Red-Top, whereas one with added mAH would correspond to an
Optima Yellow-Top. Of course, improvements in one area might bring
along improvements in the other, you never know 'til you try.

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Sinan

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Erik37 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,558
Re: 2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)
lock Veteran Member • Posts: 6,202
Re: Info on stronger batteries?

They are Np-400 substitutes ( will fit in charger) of 1850 mAh. They are listed as 2000 mAh but that was bullocks...Use the 2000 mAh to search the net.

They are sold in Europe (Netherlands and Germany) but it would surprize me if they can not be delivered in the UK.

Some guys tested them and they work. Even if they do not last a year, the price difference is worth it (lowest are 13 euros compared to at least 50 euros )

one link: http://www.saake-shop.nl/productDetails.html?productId=64

lock

D TONG Senior Member • Posts: 2,559
Fa50mm1.4 poor AF? Yeah right

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

OK - so after reading the comment about the battery life affecting
the AF - I went ahead and threw my battery in the charger - well
what a world of difference that made. The AF is almost spot on > now
even at F1.4!!

Now you see whatever conclusion and issue you raised about so-called poor AF just would not stand at all. That was why I kept giving you lead to solve issue whatever you are to look for based on peripheral observation

Daniel, Toronto
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OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
This thread is not about the FA50!!

Dude, you are either very very confused - or If youre trying to say something - get to the point!

I never said the FA50 had issues!! The lens is great - period, end of story - what is this obsession with the FA50?? Are you even reading my posts? I am not criticising the FA50 - This thread is not about the FA50** The first paragraph was just a point that I am glad I got my FA50 - thats it!!

It is about focusing issues with my K10 NOT my FA50 ! You are the one that keeps bringing up the FA50 out of nowhere - the AF problem is with all lenses - I am just using the FA50 since it has the shallowest DOF - OK? End of story - All lenses on my K10 FF in the situations I have been discussing. What on earth are you going on about??

D TONG wrote:

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

OK - so after reading the comment about the battery life affecting
the AF - I went ahead and threw my battery in the charger - well
what a world of difference that made. The AF is almost spot on > now
even at F1.4!!

Now you see whatever conclusion and issue you raised about
so-called poor AF just would not stand at all. That was why I kept
giving you lead to solve issue whatever you are to look for based
on peripheral observation

Daniel, Toronto
http://www.pbase.com/danieltong

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Sinan

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Jan Moren Veteran Member • Posts: 3,745
Re: Cideway & Jan and others

XavierP56 wrote:

The underexposure / overexposure seems to be a firmware bug but the
amount seems reasonnable if you shoot RAW so even if you don't
compensate for it at shooting time, I believe you have good
pictures anyway ?

Not in low light. If you push an image, you push the noise right along with it. And if you underexpose by one stop, you've just thrown away one stop of dynamic range.

The missed exposure for manual lenses (in some conditions you get overexposure, which gives you blown pictures) is a bug. It is a minor thing, and one that you learn to get around (mostly by not actually using the function at all, and adjusting from test shots all the time instead). But it's not something to just live with, it's a bug, a fault, but fortunately something they should be able to fix rather easily.

JeffJS Senior Member • Posts: 2,886
Sinan, Brett

Sinan, The point, if you want to call it that, is most usually the area where my dog's black head rests on the brown floor. Or at least that's where I'd be trying to zone in, the area of most contrast in the frame. Since I'm using spot focus and spot metering most of the time, the area of the point would be whatever the camera chooses it to be.. Once in awhile, in these difficult situations, I'll switch to SEL focus and try and grab any point that locks on. All failing that, Manual focus. Though I've yet to see the battery indicator leave full (suprising to me), It's entirely possible that when these problems were occuring, the battery Was becoming drained. Typically I make a habbit of charging it before I'm going to use the camera a lot. But, sometimes, I'll just pull the camera out, pop on a lens, and start shooting.

Brett, Yes, I'm aware that contrast is required for AF to work reliably. Your description though Might serve to explain why it is that the kit lens (f3.5) and the Tamron Di 70-300 rarely fail. That is, if I understand what you're saying correctly.

I've shown this photo before in my Let's see some photos thread just before christmas... Taken with the Tamron at 90mm f4 1/125 sec, locked on just in front of where the dog's ear hits the floor if I remember correctly. Trying similar shots with the FA 50 was very difficult. I've recently added the Pentax 540 flash to the bag which does seem to help quite a bit with AF. Taking a picture of this dog, using the Camera AF assist (the strobing flash) tends to spook him. The soft glow of the red light from the 540 flash keeps him much calmer.

As I said earlier, my first DSLR but not my first autofocus and certainly not my first SLR. My FZ20 has a focus time of less than 1 second (typical) regardless of the situation. I'll have to give the FA50 a couple more chances, stopping down some and insuring I have a fully (or close to) charged battery.. Failing all that, I've already earmarked my camera allowance for a KatzEye screen so I can manually focus the way I'm use to doing it. Split prism.
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