2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

Started Jan 5, 2007 | Discussions
SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

OK first of all some good news ( you can skip this first paragraph if youre only interested in the issues)

I got my FA50 f/1.4 - oh what a sweet lens. Very sharp, awesome bokeh but not distinguishable from my M50mm f1.4 for IQ - at least indoors anyways - I am yet to take it out durikng the day as it just arrived today. I didnt buy it for IQ improvements anyways - I got it for the convenience of being able to shoot in Av, TAv mode, etc.. for the convenience of auto focus and the sound of the auto focus with this lens is so much cooler than with the kit lens - it sound more contained (a more reassuring higher quality sound if that even makes sense and it has fast AF - I like it) and lastly I got it for the convenience of being able to use P-TTL flash. The M is a very nice lens and the FA is just as good (but not better IMO) but also convenient of course since its modern!

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Now with that out of the way - I have two issues and they are not concerning the lens which is superb but with the K10 one of them is not so major the one is major IMO

Since I got the FA50 f1.4 - I can confirm two things:

1. Metering using the aperture ring is off with the green button in M mode. The camera underexposes in indoor lighting at the large apertures of f1.4~f2 and a little at f2.8 but is good at f4 and and more with both M 50mm AND my brand new FA50mm. The metering is slightly different with both (probably due to the aperture blades being old with the M lens) but they both underexpose at the fast apertures - so this is a metering issue with the camera.

Using Av mode however by setting the lens on the A position with the FA50 - I am getting correct exposures all the time at all apertures - this problem only happens when I use the aperture ring (which can only be used in M mode I believe).

2. The AF is front focusing (again in INDOOR INCANDESCENT LIGHT ONLY!!) with the FA50, DA18-55 and DA50-200. The difference is huge when I manual focus (easy with the 50mm's, not so easy with the DA18-55 kit lens at the wide end!).

Outdoors the AF is fine and I am not encountering FF problems.

Now I have read some comments about issue # 1 by some other people so I know Im not the only one encountering this - can anyone else confirm this using a lens with an aperture ring such as the FA, M, A, etc. and do tests similar to mine.

Also, anyone else confirm the AF issue in indoor incandescent light (it happens no matter what WB I select or no matter what AF point I select) - the only way to get good focusing is by doing it manually. So is this universal to the K10? Am I the only one who is having these problems? Because if its universal - Pentax needs to know about it - if other people are not encountering these problems then I will send my camera in to Pentax as its obviously not working correctly then.

I have read these issues on and off in several threads so everyone please chip in (and honestly too) and lets get these issues sorted and figured out! Thanks for the time and I am looking forward to others observations.

--
Sinan

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Cideway
Cideway Veteran Member • Posts: 5,707
Re: 2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

1/3 under at f1.4, f2, f2.8
spot on from f4-f22

only had focus issues with the FA 50 f1.4 and only when the battery is/was about to go flat.
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Jan Moren Veteran Member • Posts: 3,745
Re: 2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

As I wrote in another thread, when I have tested with the M50/1.7 in manual mode (and with the 35/2 as well), the camera seems to ignore what setting you do for the green button in M mode. The behavior whether you set it to blend aperture and shutter speed (follow program), set it to use shutter speed only, or aperture only is identical.

As for misfocusing, no, I can't say I have seen that. I've been taking plenty of images in low light, but no misfocusing consistent enough that I've reacted to it. I'll try to test it a bit tonight.

OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Cideway & Jan and others

THanks for the replies.

Cideway - My underexposure is more like a full stop at f1.4 and f2 and about 1/3 stop at f2.8. Fine at f4 and more just like you state Cide.

My AF issue however, is most definetely not just with the FA50 but will all my AF lenses and at all stages of battery life.

Jan - I think what you mean is with the aperture ring selected - shooting in anything other than M mode with the green button results in the camera ignoring the aperture ring, correct? That is how mine acts - I can only use the aperture ring to change aperture when in M mode and using the Green button to meter the shutter and as mentioned above my misfocusing is VERY noticeable - especially wide open with the FA50 but even at smaller apertures like f4, f5.6, etc.

Hmm, so Im starting to think I need to send my own camera in.

I would still like more responses please to confirm these issues please but I would appreciate if people can actually test it out.

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Sinan

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D TONG Senior Member • Posts: 2,559
LBA FA50mm ; why manual focus ???

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

OK first of all some good news ( you can skip this first paragraph
if youre only interested in the issues)

I got my FA50 f/1.4 - oh what a sweet lens. Very sharp, awesome
bokeh but not distinguishable from my M50mm f1.4 for IQ - at least
indoors anyways - I am yet to take it out durikng the day as it
just arrived today. I didnt buy it for IQ improvements anyways - I
got it for the convenience of being able to shoot in Av, TAv mode,
etc.. for the convenience of auto focus and the sound of the auto
focus with this lens is so much cooler than with the kit lens - it
sound more contained (a more reassuring higher quality sound if
that even makes sense and it has fast AF - I like it) and lastly I
got it for the convenience of being able to use P-TTL flash. The M
is a very nice lens and the FA is just as good (but not better IMO)
but also convenient of course since its modern!

We look forward to see some of your LBA pict. Apparently you like the lens a lot.
It is really fast in focusing. Why did you use manual? Very unusual indeed

Daniel, Toronto
http://www.pbase.com/danieltong

OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: LBA FA50mm ; why manual focus ???

D TONG wrote:

We look forward to see some of your LBA pict. Apparently you like
the lens a lot.
It is really fast in focusing. Why did you use manual? Very unusual
indeed

I will most definetely shoot some pics with the lens soon and post another set.

I like the lens a lot since I love the M 50mm f1.4 I own and this is practically the same lens but with auto focus, etc.. So I naturally love this one too. Its the M in modern form in a plastic body and the focusing is still nice and smooth - but not nearly as smooth and it doesnt have that heavy feel of the focusing action of the M of course.

I used manual focus because I had to - It doesnt focus on what I want it to focus on with AF and I used manual exposure testing the exposure with the green button in M mode because I encountered this problem when I was using the M 50mm too so I wanted to see if it was a lens problem (aperture blades old, misadligned, etc.) or if it was a camera problem as can be seen - its a camera problem since the camera acts the same exact way with both lenses in this mode. This issue is not as important but the AF issue is as negates one of the main reasons I had the LBA and bought the FA50 as I have to manually focus now - the only advantage it gives me over the M this way is auto exposure and TTL flash ability.

Daniel, Toronto
http://www.pbase.com/danieltong

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Sinan

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Dana G Contributing Member • Posts: 627
Re: 2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

1. Metering using the aperture ring is off with the green button in
M mode.

Also, anyone else confirm the AF issue in indoor incandescent light

(it happens no matter what WB I select or no matter what AF point I

select) - the only way to get good focusing is by doing it
manually.

Buy a Katz Eye scren.

So is this universal to the K10? Am I the only one who is

having these problems? Because if its universal - Pentax needs to
know about it - if other people are not encountering these problems
then I will send my camera in to Pentax as its obviously not
working correctly then.

Metamerisim:

The effect of colors having markedly different appearance under different ighting conditions. This is a problem with inks, Epson had to ditch a whole printer line because of it. It also is a problem with paint, my father was a chemical engineer many years ago and he had to test paint chips under different lighting conditions.

So it's possible that it's a problem that is not correctable, unless some fancy dancing in firmware can compensate. It's a pretty universal problem, and again I suggest a Katz Eye screen.

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Dana G Contributing Member • Posts: 627
Re: 2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

I hate the fact that you can't edit posts! I meant to say that I use the 50 f/1.4 A lens, and have no problem because I let the camera set the aperture.

This said, I haven't really had any serious problems with my M lenses either.

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'We have met the enemy, and he is us!' - Walt Kelley

Dark Mist Contributing Member • Posts: 559
Re: Cideway & Jan and others

I understand why you must use the aperture ring to change exposure with the M lens but why not just use the E-dial with the A lens?

Bart Hickman Veteran Member • Posts: 7,256
Re: 2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

Dana G wrote:

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

1. Metering using the aperture ring is off with the green button in
M mode.

Also, anyone else confirm the AF issue in indoor incandescent light

(it happens no matter what WB I select or no matter what AF point I

select) - the only way to get good focusing is by doing it
manually.

Buy a Katz Eye scren.

Does this help the autofocus work better?

So is this universal to the K10? Am I the only one who is

having these problems? Because if its universal - Pentax needs to
know about it - if other people are not encountering these problems
then I will send my camera in to Pentax as its obviously not
working correctly then.

Metamerisim:

The effect of colors having markedly different appearance under
different ighting conditions. This is a problem with inks, Epson
had to ditch a whole printer line because of it. It also is a
problem with paint, my father was a chemical engineer many years
ago and he had to test paint chips under different lighting
conditions.

I don't follow how this applies to the situation of malfunctioning auto-focus.

Bart
--
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OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: Cideway & Jan and others

Dark Mist, I know I can use the e-dial that was not the point - the point is that I have this same exposure problem when using an M lens and so I discussed this issue with several members in this board and it was also suggested that it may be a lens issue since the M is such an old lens and the aperture blased may not be lubricated well anymore and/or misaligned, with the FA I can now confirm that it is NOT a lens issue but universal to all lenses with an aperture ring (when I use the ring of course) and not the e-dial.

I will use the FA with the e-dial of course but with the M I cant and so the point is to see if every other K10 is the same way in this mode with a lens that can be used with an aperture ring or is it only my copy. That is why I was using it like that, then there is also the front focusing issue with all my AF lenses.

Dark Mist wrote:

I understand why you must use the aperture ring to change exposure
with the M lens but why not just use the E-dial with the A lens?

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Sinan

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Rupert60 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,731
Re: 2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

No focus problems.

The Green button when used in M mode is absolutely worthless. Worked perfect on my DS. I expect Pentax to repair this one way or another, probably firmware?
--
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Bart Hickman Veteran Member • Posts: 7,256
Re: 2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

That's encouraging. Even looks sharp indoors with low temperature lighting?

Bart
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rennie12 Senior Member • Posts: 2,844
Hi Sinan -

The only lens I use in incandescent light 77 limited and I have had no focusing issues with it.
--
bill wilson

Jan Moren Veteran Member • Posts: 3,745
Re: Cideway & Jan and others

Sinan Tarlan wrote:

THanks for the replies.

Jan - I think what you mean is with the aperture ring selected -
shooting in anything other than M mode with the green button
results in the camera ignoring the aperture ring, correct? That is
how mine acts - I can only use the aperture ring to change aperture
when in M mode and using the Green button to meter the shutter and
as mentioned above my misfocusing is VERY noticeable - especially
wide open with the FA50 but even at smaller apertures like f4,
f5.6, etc.

Just to be clear: I'm talking about M and K lenses (but also FA lenses not set in the 'A' setting) in manual mode, with "using aperture ring" allowed. When measuring exposure using the green button I get the same exposure issue with all lenses I try and it is completely consistent.

Using the same FA lens as above in Av mode, I get perfect exposure. So the issue is specific to using manual mode, not allowing the camera to set the aperture and measuring with the green button, no matter what green button setting you've selected in the function menu.

OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Well Hot Damn! I will eat my words :)

OK - so after reading the comment about the battery life affecting the AF - I went ahead and threw my battery in the charger - well what a world of difference that made. The AF is almost spot on now even at F1.4!!

It can get fooled in tricky situations but thats all that is - tricky shots where Im trying to fool the AF too much - before it was getting everything and I mean everything wrong - now Its pretty darn spot on. In fact its so good the AF is doing a better job than me using the MF as Im trying to compensate too much for the front focusing I kept encountering. I guess its important to keep the batteries fresh then!! Guess I will be ordering an extra battery tonight then!!

Im going to go ahead and test all my lenses now as I just did the FA50mm but I assume that one would show the front focusing most due to the DOF and its very very good I have to say. Im an idiot!
--
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Bart Hickman Veteran Member • Posts: 7,256
Great to hear...

That's really great news. Now I just hope the "autofocus-working-correctly" battery life is reasonably good.

Bart
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OP SFT007 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,912
Re: Great to hear...

LOL. Im glad too - I really didnt want to send my camera in for repair Especially with the FA50 just sitting here!!

Unfortunately the auto-focus is working correctly battery indicator is not very good at all!! You get very little warning when the battery goes down - basically my guess is it shows battery full until maybe 20% left and after that all of sudden it drops to half and then to almost none left. Not very accurate at all. That would be a good firmware fix IMO.

Bart Hickman wrote:

That's really great news. Now I just hope the
"autofocus-working-correctly" battery life is reasonably good.

Bart
--
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Sinan

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JeffJS Senior Member • Posts: 2,886
Hold on that Ketchup until

you get a little more exposure with that FA 50 1.4.. Being one of the first lenses I purchased after deciding to go Pentax Dslr (see sig for which one), I was very anxious to try it out. I've noticed several situations, particularly dark room lighting, where this lens Hunts A LOT for a focal point. Sometimes gets it right, sometimes not. I doubt it's the camera because the Kit lens, that's right, the 18-55 slow, cheap, kit lens nails it almost everytime. The Tamron 70-300 Di also nails it almost everytime. Not only that but the exposure is right with the kit lens. I'm not knocking the FA 50 per say, but for what it cost, I did expect better from it. I've noticed too that it seems to consistantly underexpose by a full stop, full battery or not. That's using autoexposure modes, viewing the histogram after the photo is taken. Again, this isn't really to knock the lens because I do get nice results from it, but I can match or better the performance with my SMC-M 50 f1.4. I'd gladly trade the FA 50 1.4 and some change for a nice SMC-M 50 f1.2.
--
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Still happy with the K10d (in spite of the pixel peepers)

jaad75 Contributing Member • Posts: 601
Re: 2 Important K10 Issues that need to be settled for good!! (Please read!)

I have my third K10D body. The first one was front focusing slightly in every light and even more under tungsten. Second was on spot in every light, except tungsten. Third one seemed to have the same problem, but tonight I tested it with another FA50/1.4 and it looks like it works much better with it... It doesn't look better on focus chart, but certainly better in reallife situations. I've never checked if there is any relationship between battery life and focusing problems, but to be honest - I don't think so...

FF under tungsten light seems to be very common K10D problem, but it looks like it depends on the type of your tungsten lightning... There was a theory that it's caused by IR oversensitivity of AF system...

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