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First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question

Started Jan 2, 2007 | Discussions
bluball57 New Member • Posts: 23
Re: You may not have seen this

Hi,

My Minolta 5D has the FFB Issue sometimes. My cameras serial number is (98509411).

gipas
gipas Regular Member • Posts: 322
Re: First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question

Hello to everybody,

I'm resuming this very old thread as I've recently acquired a used KM7D: I requested the previous owner whether the camera suffers of the FFB problem and he said that the camera was fine.

Since I've got the camera, about three weeks ago, I've noticed that the camera, from time to time freeze.

Today I was out taking some picture to my daughter and the first one ha been the one attached to this thread

Is this a case of a FFB ?

Many thanks for your suggestion.

Regards.

 gipas's gear list:gipas's gear list
Samsung TL500 Olympus E-450 Olympus PEN E-PL1 Pentax K-30 Fujifilm X-E1 +3 more
sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 24,269
Re: First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question
1

gipas wrote:

Is this a case of a FFB ?

Yes.

Many thanks for your suggestion.

Even if you can find someone to perform the part replacement that Minolta and Sony offered in the past, the problem can return. Just keep using the camera as long as it doesn't happen too frequently.

gipas
gipas Regular Member • Posts: 322
Re: First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question

sybersitizen wrote:

gipas wrote:

Is this a case of a FFB ?

Yes.

Many thanks for your suggestion.

Even if you can find someone to perform the part replacement that Minolta and Sony offered in the past, the problem can return. Just keep using the camera as long as it doesn't happen too frequently.

Thanks a lot for your confirmation.

Shame that I've found a bad seller...not too bad the fact that I can use the camera without lot of care and have fun as long as it works!

Cheers

 gipas's gear list:gipas's gear list
Samsung TL500 Olympus E-450 Olympus PEN E-PL1 Pentax K-30 Fujifilm X-E1 +3 more
Joseph Balson
Joseph Balson Regular Member • Posts: 299
Re: First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question

gipas wrote:

I've noticed that the camera, from time to time freeze.

the first one ha been the one attached to this thread

Is this a case of a FFB ?

Can you develop the freeze thing? does the camera become totally unresponsive? do you need to turn it on/off the revive it? do you need to remove the battery, wait and put it back to revive it? Does it happen always in the same circumstances (like it always freezes after doing something like changing lens, adjusting one specific setting, just after taking a photo, or a burst, or is it random? What is the condition of your battery? What is your firmware? is the CF card ok?

Anyways, that doesn't seem to be FFB: FFB produces a black image and then freezes. Very very rarely bluish pictures and freeze. If you could take pictures after this one, it's not FFB.

First thing that comes to mind is some software glitch: the photo looks underexposed with extreme white balance: could be the camera failed auto exposure and auto white balance.
The 7D freezing (when it wasn't FFB) was most often related to a dying battery or problems communicating with the CF card.

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It's just some glass, some silicon and magnesium. It isn't a religion.

gipas
gipas Regular Member • Posts: 322
Re: First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question

Joseph Balson wrote:

gipas wrote:

I've noticed that the camera, from time to time freeze.

the first one ha been the one attached to this thread

Is this a case of a FFB ?

Can you develop the freeze thing? does the camera become totally unresponsive? do you need to turn it on/off the revive it? do you need to remove the battery, wait and put it back to revive it? Does it happen always in the same circumstances (like it always freezes after doing something like changing lens, adjusting one specific setting, just after taking a photo, or a burst, or is it random? What is the condition of your battery? What is your firmware? is the CF card ok?

Anyways, that doesn't seem to be FFB: FFB produces a black image and then freezes. Very very rarely bluish pictures and freeze. If you could take pictures after this one, it's not FFB.

First thing that comes to mind is some software glitch: the photo looks underexposed with extreme white balance: could be the camera failed auto exposure and auto white balance.
The 7D freezing (when it wasn't FFB) was most often related to a dying battery or problems communicating with the CF card.

Hi the problem arises randomly: when it happens the camera takes along time writing the image to the CF card and it becomes unresponsive. If my memory serves me well on the viewfinder ther isn't any error message although to resume from the problem it's enough to power off and on the camera. My batte are fresh new third party DSTE batteries.

According to what is happening to my camera I've thought a problem related to the CF card which, do to the fact that I I didn't have one spare to use with the KM7D I reused one which have been formatted with my old Olympus E-450 and hasn't been reformatted with the 7D: if this si not a FFB than this may be the root cause of the problem?

I'm waiting for a new CF card or I'll backup all the pictures in the current one and I'll format through the 7D to see whether this will solve the problem.

Thanks for your help.

Kind regards

 gipas's gear list:gipas's gear list
Samsung TL500 Olympus E-450 Olympus PEN E-PL1 Pentax K-30 Fujifilm X-E1 +3 more
Joseph Balson
Joseph Balson Regular Member • Posts: 299
Re: First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question

if it is random it is very unlikely FFB. As the name says, it's first frame being black. It happened because of a poorly designed gear in teh shutter charging mechanism. And happened almost exclusively after turning the camera on.
Could very well be something with the CF card, especially if it's happening when teh camera tries to unload the buffer. I hope it will be fixed with a new card and yo ucan enjoy your camera. The 7D is really a lovely camera.

-- hide signature --

It's just some glass, some silicon and magnesium. It isn't a religion.

Michael Fritzen Veteran Member • Posts: 6,741
Re: First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question

Hi,

same thinking here: at least not typically FFB (Edit: Which would be no photo, or totally black and the cam freezing afterwards, battery removal to get it back into operation)

What about an totally off WB setting by the previous owner?

Perhaps a reset to factory configuration might help.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Michael Fritzen

sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 24,269
Re: First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question
1

Joseph Balson wrote:

if it is random it is very unlikely FFB.

Random can mean it doesn't always happen ... but when it does happen, it's on the first frame of a shoot.

As the name says, it's first frame being black.

Or blue.

Michael Fritzen wrote:

same thinking here: at least not typically FFB (Edit: Which would be no photo, or totally black and the cam freezing afterwards, battery removal to get it back into operation)

FFB did not always manifest in the same way every time for every user. A dark blue result is one of the known symptoms of the FFB issue.

Look at this old dyxum article on the subject, and notice the quote from Konica Minolta:

https://www.dyxum.com/columns/other/first_black_frame/first_black_frame.asp

'When you take the initial photo, “Err” is displayed in the finder and the image turns black or dark blue. In most cases, “Err” can be cancelled by turning the main switch again and then photos can be taken normally.'

gipas
gipas Regular Member • Posts: 322
Re: First Frame Black Problem - Quick Question

sybersitizen wrote:

Joseph Balson wrote:

if it is random it is very unlikely FFB.

Random can mean it doesn't always happen ... but when it does happen, it's on the first frame of a shoot.

As the name says, it's first frame being black.

Or blue.

Michael Fritzen wrote:

same thinking here: at least not typically FFB (Edit: Which would be no photo, or totally black and the cam freezing afterwards, battery removal to get it back into operation)

FFB did not always manifest in the same way every time for every user. A dark blue result is one of the known symptoms of the FFB issue.

Look at this old dyxum article on the subject, and notice the quote from Konica Minolta:

https://www.dyxum.com/columns/other/first_black_frame/first_black_frame.asp

'When you take the initial photo, “Err” is displayed in the finder and the image turns black or dark blue. In most cases, “Err” can be cancelled by turning the main switch again and then photos can be taken normally.'

Hi, thanks for your reply, that explains clearly that my KM7D surfers of FFB issue.

Yes, random means that  when it happens it occurs on the first frame of a shot.

Regards.

 gipas's gear list:gipas's gear list
Samsung TL500 Olympus E-450 Olympus PEN E-PL1 Pentax K-30 Fujifilm X-E1 +3 more
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