S3 IS RAW comparision photos

Started Dec 25, 2006 | Discussions
Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 17,223
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

Rotareneg wrote:

I managed to get the RAW hack (from http://digicanon.narod.ru/ )
working on my S3 IS, but after spending some time testing I've
decided it isn't worth the hassle most of the time. The only useful
differences are that there's more fine detail due to the lack of
noise reduction, very dark areas don't get desaturated, and there's
no in-camera sharpening.

Are you kidding?! The difference in fine detail is like night and day. On the JPG shot my eyes keep trying to bring the brick wall into focus, but they can't. The RAW version shows the bricks defined and visible. Among other things!

This is why when people say 'I don't need RAW, the camera JPG's are just as good' I am not buying it for a minute. I would shoot RAW 90% of the time with that camera, just to get that superior detail definition you are getting in the RAW processed shot.

John NA87 Senior Member • Posts: 1,643
Re: Well, what a big surprise (NOT!)

Oh, there is still an advantage to using RAW on compact cameras. The value will depend on the shooter. For me, 95% of the time I will still shoot JPEG only with an A620. The very significant additional PP overhead of working with RAW versus the extra control gained just isn't justified for everyday snapshots. For me, anyway. RAW comes in very handy with really difficult shots where it allows me to pull more color detail from heavy shadows than starting with JPEG does. It's nice to have as an option when I know I will really need it. Most of the time I leave RAW turned off.

ljfinger wrote:

Rotareneg wrote:

I managed to get the RAW hack (from http://digicanon.narod.ru/ )
working on my S3 IS, but after spending some time testing I've
decided it isn't worth the hassle most of the time.

"So, unlike the dSLRs which have less-accurate exposure,
less-agressive white-balance and much more DR latitude because of
their larger sensors, I don't think these little P&S cameras would
benefit much from RAW."

from:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=20037290

P.S. I got seriously flamed for that comment by some people, as you
can see if you read the rest of the thread and the other threads on
the G7 RAW issue, to which I contributed.

-- hide signature --

Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

Graystar Veteran Member • Posts: 8,373
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

Midwest wrote:

This is why when people say 'I don't need RAW, the camera JPG's are
just as good' I am not buying it for a minute. I would shoot RAW 90%
of the time with that camera, just to get that superior detail
definition you are getting in the RAW processed shot.

I've done lots of testing with RAW on my A710 IS and found that in most cases the extra work isn't worth it. Most likely this is due to the 10 bit sensor.

When it comes to detail, RAW gives no detail advantage.

When it comes to dynamic range, RAW gives about 1/2-1 stop greater range essentially, you get the DR that was lost from processing.

As I said, this is for the A710 IS which has a 1/2.5 10 bit sensor (same size as the S3 but more photocells.) I believe the A720IS and S5 now use the same 8mp 1/2.5 sensor.

See samples in these threads.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1010&thread=23106264

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1010&thread=23098504

walpha5D New Member • Posts: 15
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

anyone tried the new version now? lots of new functions added, such as power meter, OSD clock, RGB histogram, games, focus distance, focus length, etc.
--
α5D is fun

Richard Rosario Contributing Member • Posts: 552
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

Correct me if I am wrong please.

This hack still does not work on a Power Shot S5?

I downloaded the hack, put it onto my card and locked the card.
When i turn the cam on nothing happens besides the "Card Locked" alert
--
Rrosario35@nyc.rr.com

PC Wheeler
PC Wheeler Forum Pro • Posts: 17,514
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

Richard Rosario wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong please.

This hack still does not work on a Power Shot S5?

I downloaded the hack, put it onto my card and locked the card.
When i turn the cam on nothing happens besides the "Card Locked" alert

If you mean CHDK, they are camera (and firmware version) peculiar. More info here:

http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ#Q._What_camera_models_are_supported_by_the_CHDK_program.3F

on which cameras are currently supported and here

http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ

in general. As I recall support to DigicIII cameras is limited if it exists at all.

I currently have it installed in my S3 and SD700 but more for some of the on-screen display features vs. RAW. If I want RAW I use my G9 (or 20D).

-- hide signature --

Phil .. Canon G9, SD700IS, EOS 20D, S3 IS; Fuji F20 & F31fd.
http://www.pbase.com/phil_wheeler
http://www.flickr.com/photos/phil_ox/

 PC Wheeler's gear list:PC Wheeler's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Panasonic ZS100 Sony RX10 IV
Richard Rosario Contributing Member • Posts: 552
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

I want to see full res
--
Rrosario35@nyc.rr.com

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 5,593
Re: Are you kidding?

ljfinger wrote:

Bruce Burke wrote:

There is a huge difference in detail between the two!

There's also a huge difference in noise between the two. Is there a
higher signal-to-noise ratio in the raw-converted shot? Well, I've
played with it in Noiseware community quite a bit, and I have a very
hard time getting more detail out of it while also keeping the noise
to the same level as the out-of-camera JPEG.

-- hide signature --

Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

Don't worry about trying to get it as clean as the jpg. That's why there is so much detail lost with the jpgs.

Roger Nordin
Roger Nordin Senior Member • Posts: 1,649
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

PC Wheeler wrote:

in general. As I recall support to DigicIII cameras is limited if it
exists at all.

Yes it does, I have it running on my G7. However, as you wrote, it is depending on which camera model and firmware you have. Heck, for the G7 you have the right "version of the version" of the firmware as well... (different regions it seems... haven't paied much attention, as it worked out right away with my G7)

Regards,
Roger

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Kevin Cole Regular Member • Posts: 113
What ISO were these samples taken at?

I would like to see a similar comparison of Raw (hack) and standard Jpeg with the ISO limited to the minimum.

I would suspect the noise reduction would be less apparent and the raw and the jpeg samples would be very similar. This could further reinforce Rotareneg's suggestion that the hack may not be worth the effort.

Albert Dawson New Member • Posts: 22
Re: What ISO were these samples taken at?

If you would bother to visit the main wikia site for CHDK you'd find links to all those comparison photos. As to the argument over whether RAW on these cameras is worth it or not that ship has long since sailed. If it weren't worth it it would have been removed from CHDK long ago. In fact the RAW features have since been expanded on. People are now using the built-in "RAW Average" and "RAW Sum" features to do in-camera HDR images (without that garish and unnatural compressed-values look that most HDR images have) and noise-free high-ISO exposures for as long as you want. Now also including an in-camera "RAW Develop" feature, where you can re-process your RAW images right in the camera (including using digital zoom to do in-camera cropping) to reapply any camera settings that you want to the original scene. Just as if you had shot it again. Did you forget to set the white-balance on the first shot? No problem, set the white-balance where it should be and apply "RAW Develop" to the original RAW file, your new JPG with the new white-balance will be created. Did you want slightly more sharpening? Less contrast? More reds and blues? Lighter skin-tones? No problem. Set your custom colors and apply RAW Develop to the original RAW file again and again until you get what you want.

Catch-up.

Kevin Cole Regular Member • Posts: 113
Albert Dawson

Sorry to offend Albert as you are obviously passionate about this chkd stuff. I have tried it in the past and found it too cumberson.

The in-camera procedures you describe would certainly not be useful utilities for the majority of Canon P&S users, but if it floats your boat, that is ok with me.
Best regards:

Albert Dawson New Member • Posts: 22
Re: Albert Dawson

Kevin Cole wrote:

Sorry to offend Albert as you are obviously passionate about this
chkd stuff. I have tried it in the past and found it too cumberson.

"... found it too cumberson." Translation: "I'm not smart enough to use it so that's why I'm here to slam it. It really upset me that my camera was smarter than I am. After-all, I can't even pronounce nor spell 'cumbersome' as proof of this. Now I'm going to see if I can find examples to prove to everyone why it's the fault of CHDK and not me."

The in-camera procedures you describe would certainly not be useful
utilities for the majority of Canon P&S users, but if it floats your
boat, that is ok with me.

Then why did you ask about it if you already used it and couldn't figure it out? What an f'ing moron. You most certainly are not one to hand out advice to, nor do you represent, the "majority of Canon P&S users" if you couldn't even figure out how to use the vast benefits of CHDK. Maybe a disposable camera is closer to what you need. One button and no settings, so as not to confuse you. That surely wouldn't be "cumberson".

Rob Bukar Regular Member • Posts: 240
For Kevin Cole

Sorry to intrude on this old discussion.

Kevin, I have been trying to send you an e-mail, and it seems the e-mail address I have for you is no longer working. Please send me your new e-mail address if you wish to continue corresponding.

If this is the wrong Kevin Cole, my apologizes again.

Rob Bukar

http://www.bukar.com

Gordie Grout New Member • Posts: 3
Re: Albert Dawson

Hmm, it took me a long while to discover that RAW from my S3 IS is possible, but now I have, and found this interesting thread. Thanks, all, for posting!

I have nothing to contribute here except to ask that those who post here (and yes, I am mainly referring to Kevin Cole's post) please attempt to treat with respect those who sincerely attempt to convey something potentially useful to the forum readers. They may misspell words, use the wrong terms, have differing degrees of technical prowess or interest, etc... but if you stop long enough to give them the benefit of the doubt, to try to understand the message they are attempting to communicate, to value their opinion as much as your own (though you may not agree with it), and treat them with respect, I believe you (and others) will have a more beneficial experience here. Every post adds or subtracts from the "value" of a forum -- those who truly try to contribute, all add value -- albeit some add more value than others -- but those who rip into someone TAKE AWAY value. There can be constructive criticism, if it is valuable to forum readers to contribute that, that does not disrespect or sour the forum, and we are all capable of it.

  • Gordie

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