S3 IS RAW comparision photos

Started Dec 25, 2006 | Discussions
Robert N Senior Member • Posts: 2,007
Hmm

It could be a matter of taste, but to me the RAW file looks MUCH better.
--
Regards,

Robert
http://www.sondek.smugmug.com

Roger Nordin
Roger Nordin Senior Member • Posts: 1,649
Re: Are you kidding?

ljfinger wrote:

There's also a huge difference in noise between the two. Is there
a higher signal-to-noise ratio in the raw-converted shot? Well,
I've played with it in Noiseware community quite a bit, and I have
a very hard time getting more detail out of it while also keeping
the noise to the same level as the out-of-camera JPEG.

Well at least you can select the balance of noise vs detail retention yourself.

If it was an important shot you could use a layer mask and reduce noise only on low-texture areas, where it typically is most noticable. In areas with fine texture, such as the bricks, the noise isn't noticable the same way and detail can be preserved.

Regards,
Roger

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digicanon Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Are you kidding?

As there should be, I didn't perform any noise reduction on it AND
it was sharpened a little. The camera always performs noise
reduction on it's JPEGs.

Most probably it is moire reduction, not noice. Software antialiasing will always reduce detail. But it is necessary to look good.

XRay_S3 Junior Member • Posts: 25
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

Rotareneg wrote:

I managed to get the RAW hack (from http://digicanon.narod.ru/ )
working on my S3 IS....

What is the structure of the RAW jpeg file? I was trying to use it with raw2nef/dng thet uses:

; file_size, data_offset, raw_width, raw_height, cfa_colors, line_length, bits, flags, camera ID1, camera ID2 etc

; file_size is used for autodetect camera type if paired jpeg file is not available
; data_offset - offset to begin of raw data (16-bits only)

; raw_width - width of output raw picture. Without rubbish pixels in the end of line.

; raw_height - height of output raw picture. Without rubbish pixels below the last line.

; cfa_colors - one of 0 - GMYC, 1 - MGCY, 2 - YCGM, 3 - CYMG, 4 - BGGR, 5 - GBRG, 6 - GRBG, 7 - RGGB;
; line_length - Exactly input line length in bytes.
; bits - supports 10, 12, 16 bits per pixel. Output data has 12 bits.

; flags is OR of : 1 - interlaced, 2 - ARM CPU (mixed data bits), 4 - intel byte order in 16-bits data
; Camera IDs is the list of cameras with same parameters.
; This ID have to be matched to the first camera name in EXIF Model field.

OP Rotareneg Regular Member • Posts: 455
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

XRay_S3 wrote:

What is the structure of the RAW jpeg file? I was trying to use it
with raw2nef/dng thet uses:

No idea, sorry. I've just used dcraw to convert the files.

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Frank43 Senior Member • Posts: 1,912
Could you post the hack again please?

Rotareneg wrote:

Ok, I put a .zip up on YouSendIt ... and a folder with the hack
http://download.yousendit.com/104934E73689C751

Your file on YouSendIt has expired. Could you post the hack again please? Or could you point me to a place where I can find it.

I have found several files proposed, I do not know which ones are good. I believe you said that you had to modify some of the files posted by others to get them to work on the S3. It would really appreciate if you could make it available again.

Thanks,

Frank

XRay_S3 Junior Member • Posts: 25
Re: Could you post the hack again please?

There is a version of just the .fir on
http://www.canons3is.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1641

Frank43 wrote:

Rotareneg wrote:

Ok, I put a .zip up on YouSendIt ... and a folder with the hack
http://download.yousendit.com/104934E73689C751

Your file on YouSendIt has expired. Could you post the hack again
please? Or could you point me to a place where I can find it.

I have found several files proposed, I do not know which ones are
good. I believe you said that you had to modify some of the files
posted by others to get them to work on the S3. It would really
appreciate if you could make it available again.

Thanks,

Frank

Zarathustra Senior Member • Posts: 1,797
Great post !

Rotareneg, i just wanted to comment that I welcome the freedom of choices and flexibility that RAW provides.
This hack to get the RAW enabled is always a welcome news.

The problem with pixel peeping is that you get the wrong idea of what the image will in reality looks like when shown is its final form as a downsized jpeg or a 5x7" print.

I try to use RAW with my two cameras, 99% of the time I don't usenoise reduction since it kills detail and the noise is gone after a print or downsized jpeg.

These samples are exactly what I'd expect of what is going on inside the camera processing.

The only drawback I see, is that is quite a hassle to activate the RAW mode in the S3 and the others.

Second and probably most important, the lack of an official Canon software support to render in batch mode the same images that in-camera processing does makes the use of RAW more difficult.

It is quite unfortunate manufacturers are deliberately leaving the RAW capability of these cameras out.

klinikl Senior Member • Posts: 1,042
Workflow options?

I came to the post via a link from the site that actually distributes the software...

Well, what are your workflow options? Which software can access the "jpg" files that are actually RAW?

I understand they have a dng converter A610_to_dng, which is better than nothing but still restricts your options (you can't use Bibble for instance or the Canon software which I'd consider the best two options...).

You do need more than a command line converter to really take advantage of RAW options... Also, are the programs used for post-processing (such as the modified dcraw and A610_to_dng) capable of batch-processing?

To really take advantage of RAW and compare it's quality to in-camera jpg processing it would probably be better to take some shots that require white-balance correction and significant 16 bit processing (like inside a room poorly lit by fluorescent light). Plus, you'd need to do all the processing in a decent RAW converter, before it gets converted to TIFF. So I don't think the sample shots of well-lit buildings at midday would be a good example.

This is interesting enough to make me consider buying a Powershot though...

Frank43 Senior Member • Posts: 1,912
Re: Could you post the hack again please?

XRay_S3 wrote:

There is a version of just the .fir on
http://www.canons3is.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1641

This site requires registration to download a file and their registration does not seem to work. After 24 hours they have not sent me yet me the activation email.

On the Russian site : http://digicanon.narod.ru/

I did find 2 .fir. files. I have tried both of them, but they both give me an "Update File Error".

If you could repost the version that worked for you on YouSendIt, I would really appreciate it. I am already registered with YouSendId.

Frank

Frank43 Senior Member • Posts: 1,912
I got it to work - Firmware question

I got my subscription to the S3 forum and I got the file. Thanks. It seems to work. The raw files are created.

One strange behavior on my S3 is that the on/off light on the camera gets turned off after I take a picture. The camera is still on and works properly. Not a big problem.

However, when I run the hack I get the message "Updating form 1.0.0.0 to 1.0.1.0." I read on http://digicanon.narod.ru/ that the hack works for the version 1.00a of the S3 firmware. This makes me wonder if I have the latest S3 firmware. I have not heard of any S3 firmware update. I bought one of the first S3 that came out. May be later ones got another firmware.

My questions are :

1- Is the message "Updating form 1.0.0.0 to 1.0.1.0." ok, or am I running an old firmware?

2- Does your on/off light goes off after a shot?

Thanks,

frank

Roger Nordin
Roger Nordin Senior Member • Posts: 1,649
Re: I got it to work - Firmware question

Frank43 wrote:

1- Is the message "Updating form 1.0.0.0 to 1.0.1.0." ok, or am I
running an old firmware?

Uh I don't have a S3 nor have I tried this hack. But I would guess they needed to make the "new firmware" to report a NEWER number or else the camera would probably refuse to load it? Just a guess though.

There is no S3 firmware update listed at BeBit.
http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/BeBit-e.html

Regards,
Roger

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XRay_S3 Junior Member • Posts: 25
Re: I got it to work - Firmware question

Frank43 wrote:

My questions are :

1- Is the message "Updating form 1.0.0.0 to 1.0.1.0." ok, or am I
running an old firmware?

I get that message and as another poster mentioned there is only one firmware.

2- Does your on/off light goes off after a shot?

Thanks,

frank

I never noticed that before but yes
Ray

p.s. could you post a message on the S3 discovery forum if you have not yet to inform the guys running the forum of the time it took to register. I'm sure they'd like the info I really enjoy the guys there.

Frank43 Senior Member • Posts: 1,912
Processed raw files are much cleaner

I am now a convert. I shot a portrait indoor at ISO 200. Looking at the Actual pixels in Photoshop, I could see small spots in the hair. As if the noise had been sharpened, although I shoot with sharpening set to -2.

I could not get rid of these small spots unless I applied heavy noise reduction and lost a lot of the hair texture.

With the raw file, I applied the noise reduction before any sharpening. The resulting hair is much nicer looking without any spots.

The same thing could be said about the eyelashes. They are very faint but cleaner on the processed raw file.

The Canon white balance gave a reddish picture. 'DCRaw -a' had a more natural white balance.

I have never handled raw pictures before and I am still having some workflow problems. However, I am sold, from now on, raw will always be on.

Frank

digicanon Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

http://digicanon.narod.ru/

Support for A610, S3IS
may work with A620, S2IS too

aleph73 New Member • Posts: 2
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

Hello all,

Does anyone know if it's possible to make a version of that DNGf4PS application working on the mac Terminal ? It seems there are some things to compile but i have no skills in that domain.

I know i could use dcraw directly with the (.jpg)raw files but i dont like the results. It's very slow to use. I would just like to be able to convert those (.jpg)raw files into some .dng files to use some other applications recognizing .dng files.
It would be very helpful if this converter was available for Linux and Mac

Thanks for your help.

aleph73 New Member • Posts: 2
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos
Ikari120378 Forum Member • Posts: 76
Re: S3 IS RAW comparision photos

Hi guys, I'm really interested in this thread, and actually would like to post my own s3's jpg-raw comparison here. But... this is kinda embarassing, I really am a newbie forum poster, and I don't know how to post with picture attachments, should it be linked from another photo-sharing site, or you could just embed it in the post message? Could u tell me how, please
Thx

deseng Veteran Member • Posts: 3,177
With apologies to the CTF Mini Challenge

A) While your photo on Flickr, Pbase (or any other web site) is open, copy the URL address from the address box on your tool bar, then paste it into your reply thread. Add a .jpg extension to get the photo to show up. Click on preview to make sure it's what you want.

Or

B) Right click on the image in Flickr, Pbase (or where ever you've hosted it), click on "Properties"..., highlight the link with the .jpg extension on it, and paste it into your message text. Provide any additional information you want.

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Regards,

Debi

John NA87 Senior Member • Posts: 1,643
You can set it to autoload at powerup

Rotareneg wrote:

Once it's on the camera
you just run the firmware update when you want to switch to RAW+JPEG
mode.

You can set it to autoload automatically at powerup and save this step. In the CHDK menu there is an option to "Make Card Bootable". It's found under the Debug Parameters menu. If you set that and write-protect the memory card, it will automatically start CHDK when you turn on the camera. The Print/Share button followed by the Exp button will turn on/off RAW capture while you are shooting. So you can still have CHDK loaded and all it's other features available but choose to capture RAW or not as you please. If you don't want CHDK to autoload, just turn off the write-protect switch on the memory card. This is how it works with my A620. It may not necessarily work exactly the same with the S3 version of CHDK.

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