Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

Started Dec 14, 2006 | Discussions
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Curious Regular Member • Posts: 152
Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

I have been monitoring this board for a couple of months since the F31d was announced. From previous threads, it didn't seem that the F31d added anything new except for face detection. Still, I didn't expect Fuji to admit to the issues brought up by web reviews such as blown highlights, purple fringing, and color saturation. For those who took the plunge to the F31d, has Fuji silently addressed these issues?

I have held back on the F30 hoping that some of these issues would be addressed since I am not in to much post processing. Currently, the F30 is about $130 less (rebate factored in) than the F31d and I'm not certain if FD is enough to justify the added expense. I'm seriously looking into either of these cameras since my trusty old Canon S400 is having problems with focusing and my son really hates the flash. I have been impressed with the low light shots on this board and hope to get a new camera in the next few weeks.

Thanks for the input.

Tianium Veteran Member • Posts: 4,279
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

I don't know about the blown highlights issue ( I don't really think it was much, if any worse than most anyway). but this issue does seem to have been delt with in the S6000, which came out after the F30, so it is possible that the F31fd has been modified slightly as well.

Also the F31fd apparently has an "auto iso800" mode which F30 users were crying out for.

Cheers Darin

raka Regular Member • Posts: 410
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

Curious wrote:

I have been monitoring this board for a couple of months since the
F31d was announced. From previous threads, it didn't seem that the
F31d added anything new except for face detection. Still, I didn't
expect Fuji to admit to the issues brought up by web reviews such
as blown highlights, purple fringing, and color saturation. For
those who took the plunge to the F31d, has Fuji silently addressed
these issues?

purple fringing stll present (do not have a F30 to compare - so can't tell you if it's better or worse)

the FD is fantastic and really works - just a pity it is only available in the 'idiot' modes

Tianium Veteran Member • Posts: 4,279
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

raka wrote:

the FD is fantastic and really works - just a pity it is only
available in the 'idiot' modes

Really. Its available in just about every mode on the S6500FD. P A S and M modes included.

Darin

Tianium Veteran Member • Posts: 4,279
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

Tianium wrote:

raka wrote:

the FD is fantastic and really works - just a pity it is only
available in the 'idiot' modes

Really. Its available in just about every mode on the S6500FD. P A
S and M modes included.

Darin

Ahh I see. I just downloaded the manual for the F31fd and I see that as it uses the same button for FD and for exposure comp...FD is not available in the manual modes and EV comp is ONLY avail in the manual modes.

The S6500fd has a seperate dedicated button for FD.

Darin

Bokonon Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

AFAIK, FD is not available in M mode, where it doesnot make sense. FD helps camera to make exposure settings, but once you take complete control over them, there is no way for FD to interfere.

FD is also disabled in some scene modes (landscape ?).

Johnny in L.A. Contributing Member • Posts: 650
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

Is there a way to limit the top ISO the camera can choose while also using the face detection? I'd rather the camera not choose 3200 ISO indoors.

 Johnny in L.A.'s gear list:Johnny in L.A.'s gear list
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raka Regular Member • Posts: 410
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

Bokonon wrote:

AFAIK, FD is not available in M mode, where it doesnot make sense.
FD helps camera to make exposure settings, but once you take
complete control over them, there is no way for FD to interfere.

FD is also disabled in some scene modes (landscape ?).

it's a bit more complex than that:

  • you also need M mode to access white balance, etc. - so no FD available then

  • and when using AUTO mode to get FD, you lose AUTO 800 and AUTO 400 ISO capability

  • you CAN use PARTY mode to get AUTO 800 and FD, BUT then you lose AF assist light again

my wishlist for Fuji (firmware update?):

1- add FD to M (and A/S) mode

2- add AUTO 800 ISO to AUTO mode (but not needed if wish #1 is granted)

3- write orientation flag into exif

4- add histogram (or blown highlight 'marching ants')

5- pushing PLAYBACK while in PLAYBACK mode put you back in Shooting mode (instead of getting a silly message)

jst4fun Regular Member • Posts: 231
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

i have been testing the F31, and think I have a few answers...

FD vs. ISO options?

1. FD in AUTO w.Flash will limit ISO to 800
2. FD in AUTO w/o Flash will limit ISO to 1600
3. FD in SCENE = Portrait w.Flash will limit ISO to 400
4. FD in SCENE = Portrait w/o Flash will limit ISO to 800
5. FD in SCENE = Party, redeye Flash mandatory, will limit ISO to 800
6. FD in SCENE = Natural light (no flash available), ISO limit = 3200
7. FD in SCENE = Natural+Flash, ISO limit = 3200, and 800 respectively
8. FD in SCENE = Museum, no flash, ISO limit = 3200
9. FD in SCENE = Beach, (w/ or w/o Flash) ISO fixed at 200
10. FD in SCENE = Snow, ISO limit 800 w/o flash, 400 w/ flash

11. FD in SCENE = Night, ISO fixed at 200, w and w/o flash (only slow sync flash types avail.)
12. FD in SCENE = Sunset, ISO limit 800 w.Flash, 1600 w/o

FD not available in A/S, M, Text, Underwater, Flower, sport, fireworks, and Landscape modes

think i covered them all

FYI: i don't have a F30 to compare to, but the F31 definitely reduces blown highlights vs. my F11. I've done tons of tests, and I'm almost afraid the F31 is slightly too dark compared to what I prefer. I tried both indoors and out, and the F31 under the same scene tends to grab a lower ISO, which is GREAT news.

couple outdoor shots today on an overcast day just after the rain, and the F11 chose ISO200, while the F31 chose ISO100. I had to change F11 to either average metering or -EV to avoid blown highlights and reflections, but the F31 had much less problem with the highlights. unfortunately, it still had every bit as much "purple fringe", but nothing that ruined the pics.

another FYI: the portrait mode was my LEAST favorite on the F11, because it washed out details and artificially gained up the pic somehow, but on the F31, it is by far my favorite so far (but I'm just learning). It caps at ISO400 w/ flash, and ISO800 w/o, with is exactly how I like to shoot, and it adds a slight warmth to all shots which gets rid of the typical fuji "blue cast" problem.

I think i COULD get ALMOST the same results from my F11, but it takes much more work. I do wish I could override the ISO defaults in each mode though.

take care.

jst4fun Regular Member • Posts: 231
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

to add one more thing... the F11 is by FAR easier to handle and hold in my opinion.

and as already been said the F31 mode dial knob is horrible.

wish we had F31 capability witih E900 type of control, in F11 packaging, with IS

Savio Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

As suggested by jst4fun in another thread, we may try using portrait mode.

Since FD is used for shooting people, we may use portrait mode in which the FD can be activated and it always choose lower ISO than that of Auto mode.
In same condition, if Auto mode choose ISO800, portrait mode may choose ISO400.

Savio

raka wrote:

Bokonon wrote:

AFAIK, FD is not available in M mode, where it doesnot make sense.
FD helps camera to make exposure settings, but once you take
complete control over them, there is no way for FD to interfere.

FD is also disabled in some scene modes (landscape ?).

it's a bit more complex than that:

  • you also need M mode to access white balance, etc. - so no FD

available then

  • and when using AUTO mode to get FD, you lose AUTO 800 and AUTO

400 ISO capability

  • you CAN use PARTY mode to get AUTO 800 and FD, BUT then you lose

AF assist light again

my wishlist for Fuji (firmware update?):

1- add FD to M (and A/S) mode

2- add AUTO 800 ISO to AUTO mode (but not needed if wish #1 is
granted)

3- write orientation flag into exif

4- add histogram (or blown highlight 'marching ants')

5- pushing PLAYBACK while in PLAYBACK mode put you back in Shooting
mode (instead of getting a silly message)

Savio Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

Hi jst4fun,
We almost reply this thread at the same time.

Your analysis result is really useful. The portrait mode becomes my favourite too.
Thanks for sharing.
Cheers
Savio

jst4fun wrote:

i have been testing the F31, and think I have a few answers...

FD vs. ISO options?

1. FD in AUTO w.Flash will limit ISO to 800
2. FD in AUTO w/o Flash will limit ISO to 1600
3. FD in SCENE = Portrait w.Flash will limit ISO to 400
4. FD in SCENE = Portrait w/o Flash will limit ISO to 800
5. FD in SCENE = Party, redeye Flash mandatory, will limit ISO to 800
6. FD in SCENE = Natural light (no flash available), ISO limit = 3200
7. FD in SCENE = Natural+Flash, ISO limit = 3200, and 800 respectively
8. FD in SCENE = Museum, no flash, ISO limit = 3200
9. FD in SCENE = Beach, (w/ or w/o Flash) ISO fixed at 200
10. FD in SCENE = Snow, ISO limit 800 w/o flash, 400 w/ flash
11. FD in SCENE = Night, ISO fixed at 200, w and w/o flash (only
slow sync flash types avail.)
12. FD in SCENE = Sunset, ISO limit 800 w.Flash, 1600 w/o

FD not available in A/S, M, Text, Underwater, Flower, sport,
fireworks, and Landscape modes

think i covered them all

FYI: i don't have a F30 to compare to, but the F31 definitely
reduces blown highlights vs. my F11. I've done tons of tests, and
I'm almost afraid the F31 is slightly too dark compared to what I
prefer. I tried both indoors and out, and the F31 under the same
scene tends to grab a lower ISO, which is GREAT news.

couple outdoor shots today on an overcast day just after the rain,
and the F11 chose ISO200, while the F31 chose ISO100. I had to
change F11 to either average metering or -EV to avoid blown
highlights and reflections, but the F31 had much less problem with
the highlights. unfortunately, it still had every bit as much
"purple fringe", but nothing that ruined the pics.

another FYI: the portrait mode was my LEAST favorite on the F11,
because it washed out details and artificially gained up the pic
somehow, but on the F31, it is by far my favorite so far (but I'm
just learning). It caps at ISO400 w/ flash, and ISO800 w/o, with
is exactly how I like to shoot, and it adds a slight warmth to all
shots which gets rid of the typical fuji "blue cast" problem.

I think i COULD get ALMOST the same results from my F11, but it
takes much more work. I do wish I could override the ISO defaults
in each mode though.

take care.

jst4fun Regular Member • Posts: 231
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

no problem.

anyone else have suggestions of tips for setup with the F31? any other of the modes besides portrait which tend to work great as all purpose?

I think this is an important thread. hopefully someone can compare to F30 side by side.

if anyone is really interested in specific comparison between F11 and F31 let me know, and I can try to provide samples, etc. If anyone wants to buy my F11, that would be even better

mikeyw Contributing Member • Posts: 949
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

I own an F11 and would be very happy to see some comparison shots. Indoor portraits especially after these poor results I got with my F11

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1012&thread=21148988

jst4fun Regular Member • Posts: 231
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

hi mikey... i think i saw you post those shots before. that really isn't normal for an F11, unless it went to ISO1600

My comparisons between the F11 and F31 (can post some shots later), show VERY VERY small differences, that most people won't see, and most all my shots come out better than the ones you posted.

Here are some F11 tips for indoor portraits (pics of kids, etc.)...

1. Do NOT use Portrait mode or any other scene mode... YUCK!
2. Turn on RED-EYE flash

3. Force ISO to 400 during daylight hours, or 200 when it's really dark (recommend try one of each).

3. If closer than 6 feet, in AUTO mode, click left arrow ONCE, to turn on MACRO mode. It will take longer to focus, but it warms up the shots and gets very sharp results
4. Optional: In "M/A/S" mode, set to "M", and set metering to "average".

don't forget to set screen brightness to -2, and CENTER focus. Also I tend to use the rapid focus mode, but you have to remember to use macro mode for close shots if you do this (#3 above).

With the setup above... I usually try to take 3 shots...

For flash shots...
first... with "M", average metering, ISO400
next... Auto, ISO400
next... Auto+Macro (AUTO ISO)

For non flash shots...
first... try AUTO mode, and AUTO ISO, to give you ISO800 max
next... try "M" mode, ISO = 400

Another setup that helps for quick shots (so you don't have to remember to set ISO, etc. each time you power on)...

Use settings above, BUT, have ISO = Auto. And use Aperture (A) mode, instead of M mode in the A/S/M position, and set aperture to 3.2 or 3.6.

With that setup, you can quickly switch back and forth between a mode that is good for night shots with flash (A), and night shot without flash (AUTO).

hope that helps.

mikeyw wrote:

I own an F11 and would be very happy to see some comparison shots.
Indoor portraits especially after these poor results I got with my
F11

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1012&thread=21148988

Curious OP Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

That's too bad to hear that the purple fringing is still a bit of problem. I know that it can be cleared a bit with some post production, but I was hoping to avoid some of that. In the end, is it worth the extra $130? Unfortunately, I don't think those who currently own an F30 will buy an F31d. I'm wondering if dpreview or dcresource will review this minor upgrade (well, dcresource did review the Canon SD550 in comparison to the Canon SD500). After all, it's the holidays and there are alot cameras still out there to review.

Thanks to all for your input.

Curious OP Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

Oops. Correction. I saw a rebate form from Amazon which includes the F31d in the $50 rebate. That makes the current difference about $90 instead of $130. For those on the side lines such as myself, what are you leaning towards? F30 or F31d? I'm leaning towards the F30 at this moment as I am uncertain that FD is worth $90. I'm trying to see if any information regarding picture quality will sway me the other way.

g_dejesus New Member • Posts: 6
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

I'm concerned the F31fd output at ISO 1600 or higher won't match the quality of the F30. I looked at the test images from the S6000fd review here and its ISO 1600 and 3200 shots are clearly noisier/worse than the F30.

F30:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/FujifilmF30/Samples/Comparedto/Fuji_F30_ISO1600.jpg

S6000:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/FujifilmS6000fd/Samples/Comparedto/S6500_ISO1600.JPG

'If' the F31fd uses the same internal processing as the S6000fd, then I might sway back to the F30. The fd feature seems really good for people shots, but I don't want fd at the expense of lower picture quality at high ISOs. The main reason I love the Fxx series is because they are a class on it's own for low light shooting. Hopefully dpreview will review this camera and settle this once and for all.

iceng New Member • Posts: 18
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

Hi,

This has been covered elsewhere.
The F31 output is like the F30 not the S6000fd.

Secondly the F31 has likely(and quietly) gotten improved firmware to address some of the issues in the F30.

One known improvement is the Auto ISO 800 choice. I believe in the F30 you could select Auto ISO higher and lower but not 800.

There may be other firmware improvements as well, to deal with daylight photos better, for example. The jury is still out on that for the time being.

As far as obvious changes... you can see the entire F31 manual PDF only at the fuji film website.

E

g_dejesus New Member • Posts: 6
Re: Does the F31d address previous concerns with F30?

Yes I already looked through the F31fd manual. I understand that they have addressed a lot of the issues in the F30 and improved upon it. What I'm concerned about is that some things might have changed in the internal processing that causes higher ISO images to not be as good as the F30. Look at this thread for high ISO comparisons between the F30 and F31fd.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1012&thread=21278112

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