DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Started Oct 25, 2006 | Discussions
mskad Veteran Member • Posts: 3,329
DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

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dslrenvy Senior Member • Posts: 1,850
I like the 77 better

good thing since I bought one already (no camera though)

What caused the color difference?

R

benadams New Member • Posts: 16
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Great post!

I like the less well defined bokeh of the 77 better. I also like the colors in the 2nd and 3rd 77mm shots better than their 70 counterparts. Those berries in the 3rd 77mm shot seem to be popping out of the picture whereas the 70mm berries don't have that same quality.

*isteve Veteran Member • Posts: 9,509
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Good test. I will be doing same tomorrow with Richard Day. Hope we get the weather! I agree the 77 bokeh is smoother and the contrast better, and there seems to be a warm cast to the 70 images?
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Lance B
Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 32,977
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Thanks for the comparison.

It is very difficult to see much of a difference here, but I do note a difference in exposure values. It would seem as though the FA77 exposes about 1/3rd of a stop less than the DA70.
First photo: 1/3200sec for the 70 and 1/4000sec for the 77
Second: 1/1600sec for the 70 and 1/2500 sec for the 77
third: 1/1250 for the 70 and 1/600sec for the 77.

As for the colour balance:
First photo: the 70 seems a little cooler than the 77.
Second photo: they seem about the same as for colour balance
third photo: the 70 seems a little warmer.

As for bokeh:
First photo: I would give it to the 77 as it seems slightly better
Second photo: I would also give it to the 77

third photo: Again I would give it to the 77, but due to the cooler colour balance of the 77 in this particular photo it makes it a litle difficult.

As for sharpness:
Can't see any difference with the subjects chosen.

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Joseph Tainter Forum Pro • Posts: 11,408
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Thanks. Good set of comparisons.

Did you borrow the lens from Pentax? You are not far from them.

I don't know how to evaluate the difference in bokeh, given the small difference in focal length. In the images taken with the DA 70, shouldn't the background be less out of focus than the images taken with the FA 77? In any event, that is my impression: the backgrounds in the DA 70 images seem more defined than the backgrounds in the FA 77 images. But I don't know whether that is from different rendering of our of focus areas, or because the DA 70 backgrounds were less out of focus.

Joe

Alfisti Veteran Member • Posts: 6,649
Dead on

Exactly bang on.

Listen to him. well, exactly how i feel about the posted pics anyway.

Actually one change, in the first pi the light appears to change, look at the shadows in the flower.

Lance B wrote:

Thanks for the comparison.

It is very difficult to see much of a difference here, but I do
note a difference in exposure values. It would seem as though the
FA77 exposes about 1/3rd of a stop less than the DA70.
First photo: 1/3200sec for the 70 and 1/4000sec for the 77
Second: 1/1600sec for the 70 and 1/2500 sec for the 77
third: 1/1250 for the 70 and 1/600sec for the 77.

As for the colour balance:
First photo: the 70 seems a little cooler than the 77.
Second photo: they seem about the same as for colour balance
third photo: the 70 seems a little warmer.

As for bokeh:
First photo: I would give it to the 77 as it seems slightly better
Second photo: I would also give it to the 77
third photo: Again I would give it to the 77, but due to the cooler
colour balance of the 77 in this particular photo it makes it a
litle difficult.

As for sharpness:
Can't see any difference with the subjects chosen.

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leopold Forum Pro • Posts: 14,083
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Thank you for showing this test.

For my part in the last picture of the berries i like the DA70 warmer color than the FA77,the FA77 looks too cold for autumn pictures.The DA70 looks like a fine lens.Maybe i have shooted too much Velvia:)

leopold
pentax forever

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JerryWhite Regular Member • Posts: 277
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Thanks for posting these. I don't own either lens, but I've planned to get a DA 70 when these lenses become available. I don't see anything here that changes my mind, but both look good to me. But then I've never decided whether I prefer the sound of a Fender Rhodes or a Wurlitzer electric - hey, maybe it depends on the chops of the cat that's playing it.

Jerry

Zion Frost Senior Member • Posts: 1,170
Hard to choose

The bokeh seems very similar, but the colors seem more pleasant with the 77m LE. Actually, IMO, the size of the 70mm should be a great selling plus. I've got the 77 and 40 limited lenses, and I am using the 40mm more and more because of the size and weight.

I don't think anyone can go wrong buying either of these superb pieces of glass.
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OP mskad Veteran Member • Posts: 3,329
Additional comments

Pictures were taken with K100D (raw), processed with Adobe ACR and using camera AWB. No other adjustments then resizing for the web.

  • The DA 70 is way smaller and lighter than the FA 77 (first picture). It totally deserves the pancake appellation.

  • The DA 70 is a tiny bit sharper wide open than the FA 77 at f/2.5.

  • There is some purple fringing with the FA 77, none with the DA 70 (visible in full size images).

  • AF is very fast with the DA 70, fast (but noisy) with the FA 77. I read numerous posts stating that the FA Limited lenses are slow to focus. This might not be the case when used with the K100D.

  • FA 77 colors seem to be cooler than with DA 70. But keep in mind that all these were shot with AWB.

  • The FOV difference between 70mm and 77mm is more important that I was expecting.

  • The FA 77 seems to expose about 1/3 stop faster than the DA 70.

  • Bokeh in my opinion is exceptional with both lenses, but you have to consider the (more than expected) difference in FOV between the two lenses before making any final judgment.

Bottom line? I need both

Questions and comments are welcome.

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Brad Hollister Regular Member • Posts: 127
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Lance B wrote:

Thanks for the comparison.

As for the colour balance:
First photo: the 70 seems a little cooler than the 77.
Second photo: they seem about the same as for colour balance
third photo: the 70 seems a little warmer.

It could be the color differences are caused by in-camera JPEG processing, or possibly by changes in ambient light. Tough to say for sure, too many variables involved to say the difference is due to lens characteristics. I agree with the rest of the comments...

Brad Hollister Regular Member • Posts: 127
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Brad Hollister wrote:

Lance B wrote:

Thanks for the comparison.

As for the colour balance:
First photo: the 70 seems a little cooler than the 77.
Second photo: they seem about the same as for colour balance
third photo: the 70 seems a little warmer.

It could be the color differences are caused by in-camera JPEG
processing, or possibly by changes in ambient light. Tough to say
for sure, too many variables involved to say the difference is due
to lens characteristics. I agree with the rest of the comments...

Oops just saw they were shot in Raw, my mistake. My comment is still valid though because they were processed using the AWB setting as pointed out by the OP. Processing with consistent white balance settings shot to shot could help, but outdoor light temp is pretty inconsistent anyway.

OP mskad Veteran Member • Posts: 3,329
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

I re-processed all images with the same WB settings.

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OP mskad Veteran Member • Posts: 3,329
All images now reprocessed with same WB. (nt)
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frank
frank Veteran Member • Posts: 6,961
Re: Thanks for the comparison.

Seems both lens produce great color and bokeh, and mostly because they are in the right hand

But I'd love to see some comparison at F4 or F5.6, you know, stop down abit. All the samples are quite extrem w/ very narrow DOF, it's really hard to tell good or bad bokeh when everything else is too far from the main subject.

Thanks again for the comparison. Seems we might be wrong about the bad bokeh of the DA70 lens, which certain is a great little lens.

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Pete Fang Senior Member • Posts: 1,900
Re: Thanks for the comparison.

frank wrote:

Seems both lens produce great color and bokeh, and mostly because
they are in the right hand

But I'd love to see some comparison at F4 or F5.6, you know, stop
down abit. All the samples are quite extrem w/ very narrow DOF,
it's really hard to tell good or bad bokeh when everything else is
too far from the main subject.

Thanks again for the comparison. Seems we might be wrong about the
bad bokeh of the DA70 lens, which certain is a great little lens.

Yeah, so far from this comparison I find there's a lot to like about the DA 70. It's smaller, lighter, focuses faster and according to the original poster has no CA that he could see. Very tempting.

Peter

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koka Senior Member • Posts: 1,186
77 is a clear winner IMHO

But the difference in colour an light is interesting.
Did the conditions change?

Looked once again -- yes, I like 77 more for all 3 images...
The background is smoother and overall feel is warmer,
more real.

brokenz Veteran Member • Posts: 9,098
Thanks for the comparison.

I'm still researching Pentax glass and found this comparison very helpful. Honestly though I'd choose the 70 regardless just because it's such an neat design. A 70mm pancake. If only Pentax would start building some primes for Nikon...
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debo Senior Member • Posts: 2,674
Re: DA 70mm Ltd / FA 77mm Ltd Bokeh Images

Nice comparison. The lenses are close. The 77 pics are a little more vibrant .... ummm .... cant explain. Need to print some samples from my 77 asap.

BTW do you have the full sized versions for download? Want to see it on a large LCD.

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