What's wrong with my 20D?

Started Sep 22, 2006 | Discussions
OP Tim Corso Regular Member • Posts: 156
Re: What's wrong with my 20D?

GrRick,

Don't be sorry, because my images look much better on me Eizo and Dell monitors than yours, but hey that's colour management for you.

You're right mine do look washed out but it was a bright sunny day with lots of dead grasses and stubble. Look at the growing grass in my corrections I thinks these are saturated enough

GRick Forum Member • Posts: 60
Re: What's wrong with my 20D?

I'm just testing to see if this works

That worked ok!

Victor Engel Forum Pro • Posts: 18,764
Re: What do you think about this?

Tim Corso wrote:

Second image to follow

Did I miss it?

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brianric Veteran Member • Posts: 8,523
Re: Thoughts

It is the Pan Mass Challenge, the largest single event for fundraising in the world.

suddie1215 wrote:
Well, its actually quite odd that your client would choose Adobe
RGB for images displayed on the Web.

If anyone is interested here's a paper from the W3 Consortium
discussing why sRGB is the preferred color space for the Web:
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/Color/sRGB

spt_gb wrote:
Many web browsers don't understand Adobe RGB. sRGB is the display
standard that most are working to, it's a safe default.

brianric wrote:
It's odd you favor sRGB over Adobe RGB for web display. I just
finished a major photo shoot, where the client specified Adobe RGB.
There will be some shots that will be published, but all of them
are being used for the web.

spt_gb wrote:

In the order that I encountered them
1) You have the camera set to Adobe RGB. This is OK for printing
but bad for web display. Convert to sRGB for web use.

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drh681
drh681 Forum Pro • Posts: 20,742
aside to I-Mac

any north face landscpe will have "good" light around sunrise or sunset from about the 15th of June to the 27th.
check out USNO.gov for the actual azimuth reading for you latitude.
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BAK Forum Pro • Posts: 24,777
Re: What's wrong with my 20D?

I've readthe first few (useless) responses, but not most of what is in between.

Your first shot is undrexposed.

Why? Perhaps your meter read the bright grass in the foreground, and stopped the lens dpown more than was really necessary.

I think you are right to be concerend about the quality. If this was typical, I'd be annoyed too.

I'm going to go back later and read the various messages, but in the meantime... have you looked in the manual for some way to go back too all the original settings inside the camera? There's some sort of "return to default" setting. I think that your contrast and color settings inside the camera are screwed up (in addition to the underexposure of the first sample shot)

It's not you, and it is probably the camera right now, but fixable.

About a polarizer... good idea, but without a polarizer you still should have better shots.

BAK

ShudderBug Veteran Member • Posts: 5,298
No, you didn't miss it

he put it down under GRick. I think he must have gone to bed. I hope so anyway. Not sure what time it is there.

BAK Forum Pro • Posts: 24,777
Re: What's wrong with my 20D?

Enough already with the bad advice, misleading info, and the few and far between gems of wisdom.

1/ change the camera to sRGB. Why in the world was it set differently?

2/ set the camera to large JPEG. Why in the world would you use RAW if you don't weant to postprocess everything? RAW is a favorite of thoise who can't get it right in the first place, or you love sitting at computers instead of talking pictures. (About 1 in 10,000 photos requires RAW in the first place. Scenes of Cornwall or whereever rarely do)

3/ set the meter to centerweighted averaging when you are around scenes like the samples you posted. This keeps the sky from foolingyour meter too much.

4/ On days with beautiful skies with nice fluffy clouds, add a circular polarizer. It will make the sky even bluer, and seperate the clouds even better.

5/ Go back out and take pictures. You'll be delighted.

PROBLEMS? You might want to experiment a bit with sharpness settings in the camera to avoid playing with them afterwards in your computer.

Those were nice places to shoot int he first place. Sorry the shots were awful, but it's a color space problem.

BAK

pipspeak Senior Member • Posts: 1,774
don't throw it away just yet

I agree with many of the above posts. On a hazy, humid day when the sun is high and the camera is partly metering off the very bright sky you're always going to get that sort of murky cast in photos. It's sort of a fact of landscape photography, which is why some of the best landscape scenes are either taken in the early morning/late afternoon light, or using the high-pass filter effect (stiching together multiple different exposures).

First off, my advice is to buy a high-quality polarizing filter, which will cut a lot of the haze and allow you to even out the exposure. Then simply avoid shooting in the middle of those hazy summer days!

brianric Veteran Member • Posts: 8,523
Re: You should use sRGB for the web

aRGB

sRGB

cspringer wrote:
few apps recognize aRGB and will look desaturated and washed out in
all other apps (including the web). Post your aRGB version and a
COVERT TO PROFILE srgb version and you will see a big difference.

brianric wrote:
It's odd you favor sRGB over Adobe RGB for web display. I just
finished a major photo shoot, where the client specified Adobe RGB.
There will be some shots that will be published, but all of them
are being used for the web.

spt_gb wrote:

In the order that I encountered them
1) You have the camera set to Adobe RGB. This is OK for printing
but bad for web display. Convert to sRGB for web use.

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John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 22,163
Re: Don't confuse dynamic range with color gamut

Victor Engel wrote:

If the scene has more dynamic range than the camera can capture,
things won't get pushed to grey. They will be pushed to black and
white -- just the opposite of what you said.

That sounds like a histogram stretch; trying to capture more DR than the camera can handle (or the output image can show), results in flat white areas for extended highlights, normal contrast for the captured/visible range, and any deep shadows all the way down to minus infinity EV are all rendered equally dark. If the extra DR is all on the shadow side, you won't notice anything different than if those deeper shadows weren't there.

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John

tko Forum Pro • Posts: 12,926
I put my camera away during summer

Well, almost, I certainly don't shoot many landscapes in our Los Angeles deserts. Brown sky, blasting sun, dried vegatation, not a cloud, gives me the sudders.

If you wish to do that type of photography you've got to do some special tricks. A polarizer can help, so can bumping the saturation and contrast, there are some good and easy photoshop tricks (contrast masking, lab color) that can be used.

One basic problem is that our eyes have evolved to pick out subtle differences. Cameras are better with extremes. Even an obvious rainbow can be diminished into almost nothing by the camera's eye.

Victor Engel Forum Pro • Posts: 18,764
Re: Don't confuse dynamic range with color gamut

It sounds to me like we're saying the same thing. What won't happen, and what I was responding to, is that the camera won't render an image where all the pixels are some medium shade of grey. If the DR of the scene is more than the camera can handle, areas will exceed either or both the dark limit or the white limit.
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midwestshutterbug Senior Member • Posts: 1,513
LOL

Your first image has one dull sky, no doubt about it.

The second image is starting to get some blue sky adn it is a much more interesting image.

Also, read post where you do not think a polariser would be much use
Think so, huh? Let's see...

Going back to the second image, look at the shadow caste by the gate. As evidenced by that shadow, you are slightly off a 90 degree to the sun.

Know what being an exact 90 degree angle to the sun does? regardles of the time of the day? GIVES YOUR IMAGES BLUE SKIES.

Know why?

I don't either, other than that it has to do with the angle of the suns light bouncing around the atmosphere, in relation to the the type of light that is allowed to enter your camera.

Pretty much what a polariser does, without using a polariser.

I highly recommend visitng an Art Museum. See how the Masters made for an interesting image. Study photographical Compostion. Learn about Depth of Field. Experiment with both Focus points and points from which one focuses

In other words, get off your feet and on your Rump, even lay down on your stomache & see what that does to your images.

Bottom line, you can have the most expensive camera in the world, if you do not know how to use it, it is not going to give you good images.

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Dave Patterson
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Gary Friedman

midwestshutterbug Senior Member • Posts: 1,513
Ah, but you ...

You excerised terrific compostion.

Foreground elements are sharp.
Foliage on right side acts as a natural frame.

All seperations, foreground, middle ground
and background horizons are aligned along the R.O.T.'s.

Adding emphasis to the naturally occuring contrasting "Flowing" of the landscapes curvature.

Your usage of vertical ROTs also adds compelling elements

and dynamics to this image. Low points of each "Range" is placed along the Left third, whiel the High point of each Range is placed along teh Right Third.

I agree with you completely about his lack of contrast, though I disagree with the need to shoot with the Sun at your back.

Just as excellent Landscapes can be acheived with 200mm lens, so too can one acheive a terrific landscape,w itout strecthing it to infinity and into the less contrasty areas.

The OP second image, cropped effectively, looks pretty darn good, on my monitor, right now. No PS other than selective cropping.

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Dave Patterson
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----------------------------------
'When the light and composition are strong, nobody
notices things like resolution or pincushion distortion'
Gary Friedman

monopoly Forum Member • Posts: 63
Dont blame your camera!

The camera is not doing anything other than what you tell it to, so blaming it for bad photos is silly.

There's nothing wrong with your 20D - the photos are dull because the light and subjects are dull; setting the correct white balance will not change this...

Shoot earlier/later in the day when the sun is lower in the sky - this will usually give better light. A polarising filter will help to get the most out of an already great landscape.

Pick a better subject as well - even with the best light i dont think those would be interesting shots.
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OP Tim Corso Regular Member • Posts: 156
Re: What's wrong with my 20D?

Sorry to all those who don't like my pictures. Perhaps I could be forgiven if you knew that each shot is part of a series that will make up a panorama.
This is the sort of thing I intended my substandard picture will end up like.

For the examples I have given, I know that the lighting is harsh, but if your out there and you want to capture the scene, then that's all you've got to work with.

Remember that I want to get better colour out of the camera, here are the originals and as promised in an earlier post what I think the scenes should look like.

Before:

After:

Before:

After:

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to comm

Victor Engel Forum Pro • Posts: 18,764
I agree a polarizer wouldn't help

Why? Because the intent was to use these images in a panorama. Using a polarizer would result in a dark band across the sky. That would look worse than an evenly colored sky, especially if the intent were to display what it really looked like.
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beerguy Senior Member • Posts: 2,539
You need better light...

There isn't anything inherently wrong with your planned shot. The real problem is that the lighting is harsh and uninteresting. The same scene, photographed either early in the AM, or late evening, before sunset, will be much nicer. Lighting is everything in a landscape photograph. Avoid auto WB, since it will tend to remove the warmth of the light at those times of day.

If you do plan on doing panos, don't use a polarizer. The effect of the CP will vary with the angle of the camera relative to the sun, and your sky tones won't match. Also set the camera for manual exposure.

Good luck.
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Michael Kaplan
Michael Kaplan Veteran Member • Posts: 4,387
Re: What's wrong with my 20D?

It is even more imporant to choose your exposure when shooting a Pano. You should take the exposure from an average place, check it on the LCD, check the Histogram and verify if it is good (that is one of the great things about digital). If not, make an adjustment to the exposure till it is good and then set that exposure in M Manual mode so that you get a constant exposure for all the photos otherwise your exposure will change possibly in each photo and you will have problems blending the shots to match.
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