What's wrong with my 20D?

Started Sep 22, 2006 | Discussions
Jerry Allen Senior Member • Posts: 1,474
Where are the original RAW files?

Don't touch the files before posting them.

PS. Ignore the negative comments, this can be fixed without question.
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-- Jerry

Jerry Allen Senior Member • Posts: 1,474
You mean without any respect or any assistance? (nt)
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-- Jerry

STEVENAS Senior Member • Posts: 1,843
what I mean is....

just another example of someone that buys a expensive DSLR and expects eye popping shots right out of the camera like some examples posted here and other photog sites.

IT TAKES SOME POST-PROCESSING!

there......I said it, you know you all were thinking it....
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Jerry Allen Senior Member • Posts: 1,474
The Original is in Adobe RGB, how to make it better?

I am interested, how do you save/fix/PP this shot to have blue sky?

Belive me I know about brown/no color living in the midwest American desert there is color twice a year Spring and then Winter for white if that is a color.

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-- Jerry

iMac, therefore iAm Veteran Member • Posts: 8,469
Nobody has hit on it...

Both of those shots are suffering from loss of contrast due the glare of the sun. Especially the second one. It also wouldn't surprise me if a lens hood isn't being used, but that alone is not enough to prevent this effect. If the sun isn't behind you, you're shooting in glare. Even with a hood I feel these pics are pretty much at their in-camera limit.

As this thread shows, correction in photoshop may boost colors, or contrast, but will not produce a natural looking scene.

A polarizer 'might' have helped the first shot, but would have done nothing for the second shot.

Next time you're outside on a sunny day, look around 360 degrees. You'll see half the landscape in good contrast and rich color and the other half in less contrast and drab colors. Stop shooting the low contrast/low color scenes, and focus on the brightly lit and saturated scenes.

And for those who say good shots are only achieved during early or late light, I offer this shot taken at the height of daylight... with the sun at my back.

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drh681
drh681 Forum Pro • Posts: 20,742
Re: Nobody has hit on it... and...

you are shooting through a layer of atmospheric haze, sunny blue sky or not, that will reduce your contrast.
so...

set the camera for a user parameter(page 57 and 58) of plus contrast and plus saturation.
that should get more what you want.

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Jmdm Regular Member • Posts: 156
Less than 2 minutes PP...

Olaf.dk Veteran Member • Posts: 3,332
Is this how you remember it?

A bit too much contrast and saturatation perhaps?
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Olaf

'Error is a portal to new discovery'

cspringer Forum Pro • Posts: 19,632
Look at your Histogram

you have no highlights. What your Histogram when shooting and play with the WB.

You can add a Levels adjustment layer (Photoshop) and click OPTIONS to give you something probably closer to what you want...watch the Histogram change.

Tim Corso wrote:

Or may be whats wrong with what I am doing? I've had my 20D a
little over a year now and it nearly always fails to impress me.
The main issue I have with it is the consistent dull and brown
looking images that I get. Take a look at a couple of typical shots
below.

BTW both shots were taken on a bright blue sky sunny day, virtually
no clouds

Original files can be found here:
http://www.place2view.co.uk/pictures/Misc_MG_0294_small.jpg
http://www.place2view.co.uk/pictures/Misc_MG_0281_small.jpg

I think that the white balance is getting it wrong most of the
time. Generally I use AWB and usually shoot RAW+JPG knowing that
RAW is the only way I'm going to get any kind of satisfaction.
Sometimes I use my Whilbal, but that isn't as fool proof as some
would have you believe.

Anyway I don't want to be post processing every last picture,
particularly where I've been on holiday and have more than 800
shots to process. What I want is a more satisfying result straight
from that camera.

I really want to like the 20D but the poor results are killing my
enthusiasm for taking pictures. I'm beginning to force myself to
take my camera out with me, knowing that when I download my days
shots, I'm going to be disappointed.

Any suggestions on how I can get better looking images straight
from the camera? I've explored all of the different parameter
settings to the point where I wonder if a 30D with picture styles
would help me? I have the 17-85 EFS lens which I think is OK, as
well as a 70-200 L f2.8 which is much revered, but both lenses
give, what to me, are disappointing results.

Buzzman Senior Member • Posts: 1,514
Re: Is this how you remember it?
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I tried to make it pop a bit and cropped the sky (rule of thirds)
Buzz
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Buzzman Senior Member • Posts: 1,514
Forgot the link!!!

Sorry

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borderrose Veteran Member • Posts: 3,240
Shoot in sRBG colour space

It looks like you have the 20D set to use the AdobeRGB (aRGB) colour space. Don;t use aRGB unless you are colour management wizard.

aRGB will produce very dull pictures with overtones of brown, just as you have displayed here.

Set the maerra to sRGB and leave it there.
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Michael Kaplan
Michael Kaplan Veteran Member • Posts: 4,387
I agree with Henry

My version below was a 10 second fix - literally.

Auto Levels, Slight Saturation Boosy (I use a LAB curves), Slight USM COntrast Enhancemet and a teenie bit of sharpening.

As Henry pointed out, the camera does not see as we do. In RAW these are all easy adjustments. You can set one up correctly and then use batch mode to convert them all or a few at a time. If shooting JPG, you just have to make some adjustments to the default settings you are using. Boost Saturation up a notch or 2, boost contrast up a notch, maybe sharpening and if all your pictures come out like this, dial in an exposure compensation to make up for the under exposure.
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OP Tim Corso Regular Member • Posts: 156
Re: what I mean is....

STEVEN,

You are completely wrong and have no basis whatsoever, for saying what you have said.

It is not unreasonable to expect 'reasonable' colours out of my 20D. The examples I posted are typical and are way off reality.

May be you can suggest a PS with low noise at high ISO that takes interchangeable lenses?

...It would be really nice if you put some thought in before you opened you mouth.

OP Tim Corso Regular Member • Posts: 156
Re: Nobody has hit on it...

iMac, therefore iAm wrote:

Both of those shots are suffering from loss of contrast due the
glare of the sun.

Yes it was bright with the sun more-or-less behind me

Especially the second one. It also wouldn't

surprise me if a lens hood isn't being used, but that alone is not
enough to prevent this effect. If the sun isn't behind you, you're
shooting in glare. Even with a hood I feel these pics are pretty
much at their in-camera limit.

Lens hood wa used

As this thread shows, correction in photoshop may boost colors, or
contrast, but will not produce a natural looking scene.

A polarizer 'might' have helped the first shot, but would have done
nothing for the second shot.

Next time you're outside on a sunny day, look around 360 degrees.
You'll see half the landscape in good contrast and rich color and
the other half in less contrast and drab colors. Stop shooting the
low contrast/low color scenes, and focus on the brightly lit and
saturated scenes.

But this is what I want to photograph. It's part of a panorama (4 images) and its something I like, may be not a photographic gem, but I like the scene

And for those who say good shots are only achieved during early or
late light, I offer this shot taken at the height of daylight...
with the sun at my back.

I know all about taking early/late shoots somtimes thats not possible, I am willing to compromise because of this, but I still dont expect brown images. In fact I have some early moring brown images as well!

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suddie1215 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,818
My Two Cents....

I'm not a regular in this forum; in fact I came here via this link from the Retouching Forum: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=20153241

But I'd like to add to all the useful info already in this thread.

I don't think anything is wrong with the camera; I think the OP's expectation of what the camera can do is exceeding the camera's actual capabilities.

The fundamental problem with the two images is that the dynamic range of the scenery exceeds what the camera's meter can handle; hence the meter is forcing everything towards a middle grey.

A large problem with digital cameras, without exception, is that they all only meter for reflected light. And in a situation like this with wide dynamic range the meter is easily overwhelmed. The exposure of these scenes would be better if metered for incident light and that can only be done accurately by using an external meter.

So in addition to the issues with WB previously identified; the OP has to understand metering and its relationship to proper exposure.

Also, nothing is wrong with shooting in Adobe RGB 1998 mode. In fact its advisable to do so since you're capturing more color information than in sRGB mode. But the images must be converted to sRGB for viewing in browsers or other non-color aware applications.

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spt_gb Senior Member • Posts: 2,876
Thoughts

In the order that I encountered them

1) You have the camera set to Adobe RGB. This is OK for printing but bad for web display. Convert to sRGB for web use.

2) Exposure. You're under-exposing significantly, hence the dark and muddy colours. Learnto use the histogram display and exposure compensation.

3) White balance. Seems off to me. Not sure if you used auto of fixed. Check out whats happening here as the colour temp seems to high.

4) Saturation. For landscapes you're better advised (in most circumstances) to boost colour saturation, though thos can be done in post processing.
5) Sharpening. Needs more, either in camera or in post.

If you fix all of the above then you get something like

and

You might want to learn a little about RAW processing and see how you can adjust the look of a shot in post processing (if nothing else you'll understand better what it is you need to adjust in JPEG settings to get the look you're after).

brianric Veteran Member • Posts: 8,523
Re: Thoughts

It's odd you favor sRGB over Adobe RGB for web display. I just finished a major photo shoot, where the client specified Adobe RGB. There will be some shots that will be published, but all of them are being used for the web.

spt_gb wrote:

In the order that I encountered them
1) You have the camera set to Adobe RGB. This is OK for printing
but bad for web display. Convert to sRGB for web use.

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spt_gb Senior Member • Posts: 2,876
Re: Thoughts

Many web browsers don't understand Adobe RGB. sRGB is the display standard that most are working to, it's a safe default.

brianric wrote:
It's odd you favor sRGB over Adobe RGB for web display. I just
finished a major photo shoot, where the client specified Adobe RGB.
There will be some shots that will be published, but all of them
are being used for the web.

spt_gb wrote:

In the order that I encountered them
1) You have the camera set to Adobe RGB. This is OK for printing
but bad for web display. Convert to sRGB for web use.

Olaf.dk Veteran Member • Posts: 3,332
Apart from all that has been said already...

...I think it looks like your parameter settings are all set too low for what you want - it really looks like contrast and saturation is set to -2. Try using Parameter setting 'Parameter 1' or go even further by setting the Parameter setting to 'Set 1', 'Set 2' or 'Set 3' and then selecting +2 on contrast, saturation and sharpness. On a 20D, this will yield images more like what I think you are after, right out of the camera. Also, what lens were you using? A lot of Sigma lenses are known to suffer from the 'Sigma Stigma' - a warm yellowish tint...
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