DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Started Sep 5, 2006 | Discussions
ssyli Forum Member • Posts: 82
DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

I've been through seeking a wide-standard zoom to replace the kit DA18-55 lens.

I have tried out DA16-45 and Sigma 17-70. To me, both of them are excellent lenses. Both of them are very sharp at the center. The followings are what I like from each lens

DA 16-45
16mm......
A lot sharper on the corners
A bit shaper on the edges.

Sigma 17-70
Longer zoom 70mm.....
f/2.8 on wide end
f/4.0 or less until 70mm (f/4.5 only at exactly 70mm)
Warmer white balance than DA16-45 (DA16-45 seems a bit too cold for me)
Seems better saturation

I've been through two copies of 17-70 and two copies of 16-45. And at the end I settle on the second copy of 17-70 (first one was suffered from back focusing problem) (both 16-45 were focusing perfectly)

Anyway, the following is my test photos. As many of you know, I am fairly new in DSLR and please provide any opinion/conclusion of the comparison as it may be useful for others (I hope).

The following pictures are taken with builtin flash, using builtin flash white balance, ISO 200, Pentax at 45mm, Sigma at 40mm

f/4.0 - Full Frame - Pentax

f/4.0 - Full Frame - Sigma

f/4.0 - 100% center - Pentax

f/4.0 - 100% center - Sigma

f/4.0 - 100% right - Pentax

f/4.0 - 100% right - Sigma

f/4.0 - 100% top - Pentax

f/4.0 - 100% top - Sigma

-- hide signature --

f/5.6 - Full Frame - Pentax

f/5.6 - Full Frame - Sigma

f/5.6 - 100% center - Pentax

f/5.6 - 100% center - Sigma

f/5.6 - 100% right - Pentax

f/5.6 - 100% right - Sigma

f/5.6 - 100% top - Pentax

f/5.6 - 100% top - Sigma

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

f/8.0 - Full Frame - Pentax

f/8.0 - Full Frame - Sigma

f/8.0 - 100% center - Pentax

f/8.0 - 100% center - Sigma

f/8.0 - 100% right - Pentax

f/8.0 - 100% right - Sigma

f/8.0 - 100% top - Pentax

f/8.0 - 100% top - Sigma

*isteve Veteran Member • Posts: 9,509
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

I'd say, given the slightly different focus point of each lens, that they are pretty even for sharpness, though with the F4 top shot the "hairs" at the back are sharper on the 16-45 indicating its focusing further back -
Colours seem to be better on 16-45 - Sigma is quite yellow by comparison.

I have also noticed more distortion at 17mm on Sigma than 16mm on Pentax in other shots.
--
Steve
Measurebating makes you short sighted.
http://www.pbase.com/steve_jacob

Henner Regular Member • Posts: 344
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Hi,

This is quite interesting, particularly the corner sharpness, as the tests I have performed a few months ago were showing the opposit:

This brings something back to my mind - when I started comparing those two lenses, my first thought was that the Pentax is far better. However, I changed from doing those first tests under artificial light while the others were apperantly performed under natural light. Don't know if that would change anything...!?!
Cheers,
Henner

KL Matt Veteran Member • Posts: 5,916
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Hi Steve,

that they are pretty even for sharpness, though with the F4 top
shot the "hairs" at the back are sharper on the 16-45 indicating
its focusing further back -

But if you're talking about that tuft of hair on the back of the doll's head, then look at f/8 - there, it's unsharp. Either the AF of the lenses or the tester picked totally different focus points for each image. It makes it difficult to compare sharpness. What really surprised me was how much contrast and sharpness the Sigma has and also the huge difference in color temp. Unless of course AWB was selected... ?

I personally don't like the Sigma colors at all. I think the Pentax looks great.

-Matt

Lance B Forum Pro • Posts: 31,829
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Both lenses are excellent for sharpness as has been shown by numeruos posts by owners of both lenses. My personal preferrence is for the Pentax as it has a more natural colour tone to the images. The Sigma has that yellowish caste that I have seen in evidence on the Sigma 28-70 f2.8. Just a personal preferrence.
--
Lance B

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b
GMT +10hours

 Lance B's gear list:Lance B's gear list
Nikon D850 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24mm f/1.4G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 400mm f/2.8E FL ED VR +15 more
John Bean (UK) Forum Pro • Posts: 18,035
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

KL Matt wrote:

I personally don't like the Sigma colors at all. I think the Pentax
looks great.

If both had been custom white-balanced you wouldn't see a difference. Or to put it another way, if they had been balanced for the Sigma the Pentax would have looked terrible.

I did some tests a while ago with some of the lenses I commonly use, in a sort-of standard daylight (summer, noon, light overcast). I did WB on each lens in identical lighting using the eyedropper tool in ACR on a Macbeth checker as a target. These were the WB settings that ACR produced:

Sigma 17-70 5900 7
Samsung 50-200 6150 7
Pentax DA40 6200 3
Pentax A50/1.4 6050 8
Pentax K35/3.5 6250 3
Pentax K28/3.5 6160 8
Zenitar 16 5950 13

As you can see the Sigma is a lot warmer (like the Zenitar) but unlike the Zenitar has no excess green tint. If each lens is properly white balanced there's no visible colour shift at all.

It's not like with film, where you get whatever the lens delivers... and in fact the I find Sigma is more neutral than the Pentax lenses - the colour temperature measured from the Macbeth is closer to reality. In any case there's just as big a difference between (say) A50/1.4 and the DA40 as there is between the same A50 and the Sigma - it's just that it's in the opposite direction!

 John Bean (UK)'s gear list:John Bean (UK)'s gear list
Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 OSS
billstien Regular Member • Posts: 202
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Nice work. Which of the two lenses reproduced closest to real life colours?

I have a 17-70 and although it is sharp and contrasty, I don't like the "yellowish" hue of the pictures. I think my 18-55 kit does a better job with colour and the sharpness and contrast aren't bad either.

Nando

John Bean (UK) Forum Pro • Posts: 18,035
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Lance B wrote:

Both lenses are excellent for sharpness as has been shown by
numeruos posts by owners of both lenses. My personal preferrence is
for the Pentax as it has a more natural colour tone to the images.
The Sigma has that yellowish caste that I have seen in evidence on
the Sigma 28-70 f2.8. Just a personal preferrence.

It doesn't match the WB presets particularly well, no Sigma lens does. I guess Pentax tried to tailor WB presets to their own lenses

But surely nobody relies on preset WB? There are huge differences across the Pentax lens colours, my DA40 looks decidedly pink if I leave it on a preset, just as the Sigma looks too yellow. The A50/1.4 is about spot-on.

But they all look just the same if I white balance them properly.

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KL Matt Veteran Member • Posts: 5,916
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Hi John,

But surely nobody relies on preset WB? There are huge differences
across the Pentax lens colours, my DA40 looks decidedly pink if I
leave it on a preset, just as the Sigma looks too yellow. The

Surely you don't rely on AWB? :-o

But seriously, my DS is nearly always set to sunny. For me, it's the only way to truly see what kind of light conditions result in what colors. I can always change the white balance to whatever I feel like later in pp since I shoot RAW almost exclusively, so if sunny is not the best white balance for a shot I can always change it later. Having all the shots set to the same white balance lets me see different lighting conditions from the same baseline - like shooting a favorite brand of film. It's just one less variable to consider. It also allows me to see the differences in my lenses more. Some of my lenses have color rendering I really like, and want to preserve across a set of images. Using AWB would take that away. Granted, I could change it all back to standard values in PP, but this way if I learn to get it right the first time, there might not be any need to change anything at all.

-Matt

John Bean (UK) Forum Pro • Posts: 18,035
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

KL Matt wrote:

But surely nobody relies on preset WB? There are huge differences
across the Pentax lens colours, my DA40 looks decidedly pink if I
leave it on a preset, just as the Sigma looks too yellow. The

Surely you don't rely on AWB? :-o

Actually I do, so that lens differences don't screw up the colour of previews. The WB only applies to the preview since all my images are raw captures

But seriously, my DS is nearly always set to sunny.

Always much too cool for me. Probably depends where you are on the planet and at what time of year. But I always try (don't always succeed) to shoot at least one "reference" grey card with each lens I use to make it easier to get the proper WB later during raw processing.

Often I just ignore the WB and set whatever pleases me - how I remember it rather than some clinically precise measurement. In Silkypix they even have an enhanced colour mode they call "Memory colour"

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Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 OSS
KL Matt Veteran Member • Posts: 5,916
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Always much too cool for me.

Don't be so hard on yourself John, I've always thought you were pretty cool.

-Matt

OP ssyli Forum Member • Posts: 82
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

DA16-45 is on the cool side while the Sigma 17-70 is on the warm side.

I think the 17-70 is a bit closer (my monitor is not very well calibrated). But, it doesn't bother me too too much since I always shoot raw.

To me 17-70 produces better contrast and saturation.

billstien wrote:

Nice work. Which of the two lenses reproduced closest to real life
colours?

I have a 17-70 and although it is sharp and contrasty, I don't like
the "yellowish" hue of the pictures. I think my 18-55 kit does a
better job with colour and the sharpness and contrast aren't bad
either.

Nando

OP ssyli Forum Member • Posts: 82
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

KL Matt wrote:

But if you're talking about that tuft of hair on the back of the
doll's head, then look at f/8 - there, it's unsharp. Either the AF
of the lenses or the tester picked totally different focus points
for each image. It makes it difficult to compare sharpness. What
really surprised me was how much contrast and sharpness the Sigma
has and also the huge difference in color temp. Unless of course
AWB was selected... ?

Sorry, I should have use a tripod and manual focus when performing such comparison. But the original intention of the DA16-45 pictures is just to see the differences of the apeture value.

I have tried postprocess the raw file to match the WB between the two lenses, and the sigma definitly produces better result (better saturation and contrast)

I personally don't like the Sigma colors at all. I think the Pentax
looks great.

Yes, the Sigma is on the warm side, but the DA16-45 is also on the cool side comparing to the real life OR maybe my monitor is just not calibrated well

-Matt

coleviolin Veteran Member • Posts: 5,993
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

To me the Sigma looks sharper at F/4, but as you say maybe at the edges the Pentax is sharper. This is probably because of the shorter zoom range. I prefer the more natural color of the Pentax personally, and since in-camera white balance tends to be more on the warm side anyway I don't mind if the Pentax is cooler. This was one reason why I traded the Sigma 50/2.8 DG macro for the Pentax D-FA 50/2.8 macro. Of these two lenses I thought there wasn't much difference at all in sharpness, but color and bokeh was more pleasing from the Pentax.

Anyway, nice pair of zooms you got! I feel a greater sense of balance in the Pentax than in the Sigma overal. This is why I like the DA 18-55 even though it's not really a "great" lens.
--
Lipo

**

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Cassio Dorneles New Member • Posts: 7
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

And what about the lens flare?

I currently own a 18-55 and I'm really disappointed with the flare on this lens, when comparated with other Pentax lenses I own.

-- hide signature --

Cassio

Cassio Dorneles New Member • Posts: 7
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

I mean, does anybody have some information about the flare on both lens? I belive Pentax lenses used to be very good, but I've changed my mind with the 18-55.

-- hide signature --

Cassio

KL Matt Veteran Member • Posts: 5,916
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Hi Lipo,

Anyway, nice pair of zooms you got! I feel a greater sense of
balance in the Pentax than in the Sigma overal. This is why I like
the DA 18-55 even though it's not really a "great" lens.

Hmmm.. I think the 18-55 is great, but it doesn't render colors anything like the 16-45. For colors, the 16-45 is my favorite lens so far.

-- hide signature --

Take it easy,

-Matt

KL Matt Veteran Member • Posts: 5,916
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

I should explain that: With the 16-45, I don't have trouble getting greens to actually look grean. Reds don't seem as orangy. Even with fidling with my whitebalance all day long, there are shots I can't get green to look right with my M28 2.8, for instance.

I don't know about skintones, I don't do a lot of portrait with the 16-45. Now if it could focus correctly and was sharp, I'd be in love.

-- hide signature --

Take it easy,

-Matt

John Lai Senior Member • Posts: 2,579
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

coleviolin wrote:
I prefer the more natural color of the Pentax

personally, and since in-camera white balance tends to be more on
the warm side anyway I don't mind if the Pentax is cooler.

Is there a way to adjust the camera's white balance to cooler? I can do that on my Nikon 5000.

John

John Bean (UK) Forum Pro • Posts: 18,035
Re: DA16-45 VS Sigma 17-70 test {seek conclusion}

Cassio Dorneles wrote:

And what about the lens flare?

The 17-70 is almost completely flare-free. better than any other zoom I've used. Can't speak for the 16-45.

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Sony FE 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 OSS
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