D60 - not rumor!!!

Started Dec 31, 2001 | Discussions
Richard Smith Contributing Member • Posts: 928
Rumours and Ethics...

Last year, when the whole Napster/MP3 thing was in the headlines, the
music industry was screaming about how it was stealing. Now I agree
that downloading MP3's of commercial CD's is no different than
stealing, but I still do it, either to try before I buy, or when I
know for a fact that I don't intend to listen to the MP3 more than
once or twice, that is, I don't get enough "pleasure" from it that it
crosses the line into something I should be paying for. MP3's give me
the power to treat music like shareware. MP3's give me the power to
impose my own ethics on the situation rather than obeying the music
industry's screwed-up ethics.

Now with rumors about unannounced digital cameras, of course they can
be destructive and harmful, but why do we indulge? We do it because
Canon releases products that are great but still have issues, and then
stonewalls us when it comes to acknowledging those problems or giving
us a roadmap of where they are going so that we can make an informed
purchasing decision for products that cost multiple thousands of
dollars. This makes us feel powerless and as human beings we will
always seek out something to counterbalance that. So we indulge in
rumor-mongering because it allows us to make a statement that we think
our ethics, though flawed, are still a lot better than Canon's.

I personally think Phil Askey is doing us a real service by not
putting heavy moderation on threads like this, the way Rob Galbraith
does in his forum. We need this pressure release valve. We really
do...

Thanks Phil!!

The other Larry Senior Member • Posts: 1,935
Re: Heheheheh

Mike Kelley

You tickle me Mike...you sure know how to get to the point...I'm laughing so hard I can't see. LOL

LarryM

Buchan-Grant
Buchan-Grant Senior Member • Posts: 1,985
Re: Pepe, you hit the nail on the head...

I agree wholeheartedly with the above posters, The D30 (which I only got 3 weeks ago) produces great results and frankly, is a bargain!

When a significantly better machine hits the market with a considerably larger sensor, I will get even greater range from my lens collection!

David Birkin wrote:

Chris Dodkin wrote:

One thing is sure, Canon will continue to bring out new digital
SLRs to suppliment the range.

very true. the body part of the system is very dynamic.

The one constant is the lens system.

i sure hope so.

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Larry H. Smith Veteran Member • Posts: 6,270
Re: In Defense of Peter G.

Peter Stewart wrote:

Please understand sir, I read your, ahem, post and rather than
saying anything negative, I did as my mother taught me and, after
due thought, paid you the highest compliment that came to mind.

You see, a point-by-point argument would have been futile;

Indeed! An indefensible position.

it's too much like fighting and you seem to want to battle, but you see sir,
I've had a long standing principal that I will not enter into a
battle of wits with one who is unarmed.

Cut!

Slash!

Arrgh! ...I KNEW I should'a brung my brain!

Getting weaker, ...feel faint, ...everything's getting dim, ...can't breathe!

Maybe it's all the superiority in-the-air.

Got any long-standing-principles against unwarranted attacks? Explain them to P.G.

Speaking of principles, I generally voice opposition to the "personal" thing here on DPR (or anywhere) myself. Somehow your "Shame" post prompted me to violate that rule. ( Yep, ...human. I confess!)

Apologies (as appropriate) to other members!

I wish you a fine and prosperous New Year.

Yes, ...to all!

Larry

Larry H. Smith Veteran Member • Posts: 6,270
Re: Rumours and Ethics...

Richard Smith wrote:

Now with rumors about unannounced digital cameras, of course they can
be destructive and harmful, but why do we indulge?

Hi Richard,

I'm not sure if you mean to include Peter's "report" in this harmful and destructive category. If you do, can you explain the harm, or the destruction?

It seems to me that he has simply told us what he found posted openly on another site.

It WAS posted there, and might easily be accurate. I don't see an "ethics" issue here. I understand that you may not either, ...just asking.

I'd guess that these forums would be a LOT smaller, and less-interesting too, if the only things ever posted here were things that everybody already-knew to be "true".

I've been frustrated by Canon's info-practices too, although I have to admit, I've read some plausible defenses of their business-wisdom in some of the hot-threads about the issue.

So, I'm just taking what's offered by Canon, AND whatever anyone else wants to add, so long as there is SOME basis for considering it. (As opposed to something completely "made-up" just to confuse things).

The first guy to "reveal" something, for example, is either on-to a "scoop", ...or on-to a false rumour. And we never know which until Yogi Berra says "it's over!".

But I, for one, don't mind hearing it. And if the only way for me to hear-it is for someone to "pass-it-along", I don't mind that either.

I don't expect everything that's posted on these forums to be stamped "proven true". As long as there is good will and good intent behind the sharing, I'm all for it.

I did begin this post with a question, ...but I'm not "taking issue" with you on anything, ...just voicing some thoughts

Larry

freestyle Contributing Member • Posts: 691
Re: What will Canon screw up on the next camera?

Michael Martin wrote:

Yes but given the track record of Canon with digital imaging: bad
autofocus on the D30 and banding on the 1D, they won't get it right.

My take on the banding is...Yes it's a problem for people who want and need a 1D...I would think that Canon is definitely going to try to fix that problem.....But the whole autofocus issue and other little problems with the D30 are screw ups in my opinion...Canon has proved that they can build excellent auto focus systems....I think its more like a very well thought out business strategy that they all use. Almost all manufacturers do the same thing....If they made their product perfect on the first try they would never sell another one of those products...There always has to be room left for improvement of the products, to lure prospective customers to purchase the next best thing....I foresee maybe 5 to 7 autofocus points next camera, maybe the points will light up, maybe not....but it will most likely be lacking in some area or another....maybe the megapixels...maybe it will be 4-6.....but there will be people who want more.....I'm sure there is a term for this behavior....I'm not sure it would be called planned obsolesce......All I know is that just because it is newer doesn't mean it will be better although it certainly could be....I think I will be just as happy with the D30 I ordered this week as everyone else on this forum.

Gregg

Paul Pope Veteran Member • Posts: 3,630
Re: D60 - not rumor!!!

gee really? ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Peter Gregg wrote:

Hi All,

First, Happy New Year to all here at Dpreview. Also to Phil for
being such a great host.

Here is the info I got. First, there is NO spec's or time schedule
on it's release. Got it? To those that are salivating instead of
reading, no info was given from Canon on it's features or release
schedule. So, you want to know what the big deal is. Here it is . .
.

One of the pro's I learn from and take classes and lessons from was
hired to demonstrate THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30 at the February
show. He is a big name guy.

So, that means there IS a camera - and Canon is calling it a
REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30!!!!! It is in real life and not a fantisy.
He was not told any info like mp size or when it will be available.
I guess they want a high end person to place the camera with.

THE D30 REPLACEMENT - YES!!!!!!! What neat NEAT words.

That's all.

Pete

Peter Stewart Regular Member • Posts: 129
Re: In Defense of Peter G.

Heh. Well done Larry.

At least it's nice to know you're not in the part of the population that is below average.

Too bad we don't know each other; got a feeling we'd be friends.

Oh well, heavy sigh.

Time to end it don't ya think?

Peter

Larry H. Smith Veteran Member • Posts: 6,270
Re: In Defense of Peter G.

Peter Stewart wrote:

Heh. Well done Larry.

At least it's nice to know you're not in the part of the population
that is below average.

Too bad we don't know each other; got a feeling we'd be friends.

Oh well, heavy sigh.

Time to end it don't ya think?

Peter

"Roger"-that, Peter!

Solid handshake, etc.

Best wishes,

Larry

Mike Greer Contributing Member • Posts: 599
Re: Peter...For Shame!

Peter,

I must say that it has been my many years experience of participation in online forums, your type of response to my ost is rare. Usually, people jump to defensiveness and respond out of emotion. They don't address the issues at hand. Then all potential meaningful dialog is lost. I've seen entirely too many threads go down in flames this way when there was potentially valueable knwoldge to be spread but it gets lost in a sea of emotions.

On the paragraph issue, you are correct. But I just got lazy.

Peter Stewart wrote:

Mike,
Perhaps I could take minor issue with some of what you wrote but
that would be nit-picky and petty on my part.

I read and pondered what you said and can't find any room for
substantial disagreement. If I were to be a bystander reading each
post I would have some agreement with each; your points were well
made.

There's not one of us infallible and not subsceptible to human
frailities.

Only comment I would like to make it try and use paragraphs a
little more; reading long blocks of text can get confusing.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart Regular Member • Posts: 129
Re: Peter...For Shame!

Again, well said Mike.

So far you've proven yourself to be a class act.

I think for the most part I am too; kind of a rare bird; however, sometimes I do or say things that make me feel like I just graduated from Stupid School.

Life is hard, it has great ups and downs, and I hope you have a great year more full of the former than the latter.

Peter
Now, how about that meaningful dialog?

mpeltier Regular Member • Posts: 416
Re: D60 - not rumor!!!

D60? By the time I get through getting a decent lense collection together they will probably be working on a 42mp sensor in a large format capable of making freeway billboards. The only reason I don't quit now is that I know all of those pretty L lenses will still work with it and produce great images (and probably still be worth more than the camera)

Mike

Peter Gregg wrote:

Hi All,

First, Happy New Year to all here at Dpreview. Also to Phil for
being such a great host.

Here is the info I got. First, there is NO spec's or time schedule
on it's release. Got it? To those that are salivating instead of
reading, no info was given from Canon on it's features or release
schedule. So, you want to know what the big deal is. Here it is . .
.

One of the pro's I learn from and take classes and lessons from was
hired to demonstrate THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30 at the February
show. He is a big name guy.

So, that means there IS a camera - and Canon is calling it a
REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30!!!!! It is in real life and not a fantisy.
He was not told any info like mp size or when it will be available.
I guess they want a high end person to place the camera with.

THE D30 REPLACEMENT - YES!!!!!!! What neat NEAT words.

That's all.

Pete

JC Senior Member • Posts: 1,083
Re: Yeah, but...sort-of

lhsmith wrote:

Lee Rothman wrote:

For all we know they may well call the next (improved) D30 a EOS 3D
as it may well incorporate much of the EOS 3's features with a
(hopefully) at least 6-10mp CMOS and eye control focus. Wouldn't
that be awesome?

Awesome, maybe, ...for some...as long as it has an "Off" switch.

I might be looking around in the VF to check composition, see what
is/is-not in-focus, etc. In-that-case, I DON'T need the camera
focussing on everything I look-at

Larry

Larry,

That would be a bother. But eye controlled focus, at least in the 7E, only focuses the lens when you depress the shutter release or the back button (when set for focus). So you can focus on an object, release the shutter and still evaluate the scene. ECF is especially "awesome" when you're tracking moving objects. IMHO it is very worthwhile. And it has another important trait -- it can be turned off if you don't want to use it.

JC

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benjamin chang Regular Member • Posts: 131
In defence of Peter Gregg

Come on guys I think Peter is doing us a favour by mentioning what he heard from his teacher whom he respects. Hands on your heart would you not do not same if the same situation arises?

Let's start another more interesting and educating topic.......

how about listing your favourite photography/digital sites? I have started such a thread so please join in.

If there is a new model - so what it's not the camera but the photogrpaher that takes the picture. My teacher is Winston Ingram for those who live in the UK.That wa my one lesson.

From what I read many readers of this forum are more concern about their equipment rather than their ability to take good pictures. Perhaps Mr. Askey should split this forum up into 3 sub - sections:

Canon digital SLR- gadget freaks
Canon digital SLR- photography
Canon digital SLR- rumours ONLY

Benjamin Chang
London UK Please note no prefic just to make "certain" members happy

Happy new year to you all.

VincentJ Senior Member • Posts: 2,262
Re: Yeah, but...

Yeah. It should have been called the D-29.95

boarderphreak wrote:

Well, call me skeptical... But if Canon improved upon the D30, I
don't think they'd call it a D60. The better the camera, the LOWER
the number I would think, just like the film-based cameras.

kelleym Contributing Member • Posts: 888
Re: How bout a cold one?

JCDoss wrote:

Mike Kelley wrote:

this isn't an obnoxious thread as
the one about jimwww who sold his D30 (who seems like a blithering
idiot -- if I knew as little as he obviously did before I spent
thousands of dollars I'd deserve a quick punch in the head with a
2x4).

Wow... you and jimwww must be bestest buddies! Bet you guys go
out for beers after work on Fridays!

I agree with your post 100% (and the one in the other thread, which
I wouldn't dare comment on,,, since the fool comments are already
starting to roll in.).

Actually, JC, I was this close to giving up this whole forum after reading and commenting in that thread. I feel so old and tired I don't know where to begin anymore.

Perhaps I wasn't too tactful -- I dunno, I just can't even bring myself to looking in on that thread again (so I won't). As you know, I've made great friends here, but I also seem to have to suffer some of the worse fools around.

My New Year Resolution -- to suffer fools gladly.--Mike http://www.kelleytown.com

JCDoss
JCDoss Veteran Member • Posts: 3,219
Re: Between me and you...

Mike Kelley wrote:

Actually, JC, I was this close to giving up this whole forum
after reading and commenting in that thread. I feel so old and
tired I don't know where to begin anymore.

This forum has degenerated a fair amount in the past few months. So much so that I wouldn't blame any of us "founders" for wanting to go elsewhere. So little learning, sharing, and bouncing ideas off each other and so much MUCH more bitching, moaning, griping (about the same things over and over and over), idiotic stupid questions that are easily found in the manual or at Canon's website, and now we're seeing unbelievable personal attacks (in this thread particularly) on people who really don't deserve it... I think Phil needs a moderator.

JCDoss

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Mike Porter Forum Member • Posts: 58
Re: In defence of Peter Gregg

I do not need to defend Peter. Although I do not know Peter personally, I do know where he got his information from reguarding the D60. Everything he said is true and his source is considered to be one of the best in the field. I have not bought my digital camera yet, but it will be happening this next year. I do get a kick out of all the posts in most forums that are based on defending their camera purchases. I agree with Benjamin that it's the photographer who makes the difference in a great photograph, not the equipment. There is no such thing as the perfect camera, never has been.

Mike Porter

Benjamin Chang wrote:

Come on guys I think Peter is doing us a favour by mentioning what
he heard from his teacher whom he respects. Hands on your heart
would you not do not same if the same situation arises?

Let's start another more interesting and educating topic.......
how about listing your favourite photography/digital sites? I have
started such a thread so please join in.

If there is a new model - so what it's not the camera but the
photogrpaher that takes the picture. My teacher is Winston Ingram
for those who live in the UK.That wa my one lesson.

From what I read many readers of this forum are more concern about
their equipment rather than their ability to take good pictures.
Perhaps Mr. Askey should split this forum up into 3 sub - sections:

Canon digital SLR- gadget freaks
Canon digital SLR- photography
Canon digital SLR- rumours ONLY

Benjamin Chang
London UK Please note no prefic just to make "certain" members happy

Happy new year to you all.

Daniel Lauring
Daniel Lauring Veteran Member • Posts: 9,343
I wonder how much I can get for my well used but cared for D30.

Thanks for the tidbit, Peter. If the new D60 comes out in the same ballpark as the D30 and has improved focus capabilities I will buy it. If it has more resolution to boot that will be puddin' on the cake.

Danny

Peter Gregg wrote:

Hi All,

First, Happy New Year to all here at Dpreview. Also to Phil for
being such a great host.

Here is the info I got. First, there is NO spec's or time schedule
on it's release. Got it? To those that are salivating instead of
reading, no info was given from Canon on it's features or release
schedule. So, you want to know what the big deal is. Here it is . .
.

One of the pro's I learn from and take classes and lessons from was
hired to demonstrate THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30 at the February
show. He is a big name guy.

So, that means there IS a camera - and Canon is calling it a
REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30!!!!! It is in real life and not a fantisy.
He was not told any info like mp size or when it will be available.
I guess they want a high end person to place the camera with.

THE D30 REPLACEMENT - YES!!!!!!! What neat NEAT words.

That's all.

Pete

Al Goldis Senior Member • Posts: 1,185
Re: Between me and you...

I felt the same way, but I got over it. The way I got over it is by ignoring the topics I'm not interested in. Yes, that means I don't read the majority of topics.

Actually, I don't notice the forum having degenerated in the past few months. Maybe it has or maybe you've just seen the same things a few times now and are less interested in the "Is the 28-135IS a good lens?" kind of questions. In an open, public forum, people are always going to be free to post things you don't want to read or ask questions that have already been answered 1000 times. There's no way around it. Even if there was a FAQ button on every page of the forum, many people wouldn't read it.

JCDoss wrote:

Mike Kelley wrote:

Actually, JC, I was this close to giving up this whole forum
after reading and commenting in that thread. I feel so old and
tired I don't know where to begin anymore.

This forum has degenerated a fair amount in the past few months.
So much so that I wouldn't blame any of us "founders" for wanting
to go elsewhere. So little learning, sharing, and bouncing ideas
off each other and so much MUCH more bitching, moaning, griping
(about the same things over and over and over), idiotic stupid
questions that are easily found in the manual or at Canon's
website, and now we're seeing unbelievable personal attacks (in
this thread particularly) on people who really don't deserve it...
I think Phil needs a moderator.

JCDoss

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