D60 - not rumor!!!

Started Dec 31, 2001 | Discussions
Stephen Peeck New Member • Posts: 6
Re: D60 - not rumor!!!

Mr. Peeck wrote:

Like the new thread I put in yesterday about the EOS 1D I was told by a > canon rep. while looking at the 1D, to wait for the next one to come > out with a CMOS chip a little slower fps, but better res. (6 mpx) ???? IS > THIS THE NEXT D30 (called the D60)???? or what...........or is there > another 1D coming. Who knows

Peter Siciliano wrote:

Peter Gregg wrote:

One of the pro's I learn from and take classes and lessons from was
hired to demonstrate THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30 at the February
show. He is a big name guy.

So, that means there IS a camera - and Canon is calling it a
REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30!!!!! It is in real life and not a fantisy.
He was not told any info like mp size or when it will be available.
I guess they want a high end person to place the camera with.

THE D30 REPLACEMENT - YES!!!!!!! What neat NEAT words.

That's all.

Pete

Ahh, who cares?

After two years of playing around with prosumer-class cameras, I
finally took the plunge and bought the camera I knew I've always
wanted. I now finally own my own D30!

Let me tell you, I'm not disappointed in the least! God, does it
ever feel good to look through a real lens and have real optical
manual focus! I feel released and won't be outgrowing this camera
anytime soon.

I've got a lot of work to do in mastering the use of my D30, and I
look forward to every fun and frustrating minute of the process!

My New Year's resolution for 2002 is to not get caught up by the
hype of new and improved products, but rather to make the most of
what I'm fortunate enough to own right now!

If I have any regrets with respects to buying my D30 right now, it
would be for having missed out on possible price reductions of the
cost of the camera by Canon in lieu of an updated version. Oh well,
life's to short to wait too long!

Happy New Year, everyone!

Sincerely,

PGS

-- hide signature --

Mr. Peeck

Ian S Senior Member • Posts: 2,257
Re: D60 - not rumor!!!

After studying these forums for months and learning from all you good people about the good and (few) bad aspects of the D30 I finally forked out my $2,000+ just a couple of weeks ago. This is a great camera and meets my goal of having something that doesn't limit my own [already limited! ] abilities.

Unlike many, I never had any other digital camera. I went straight from a manual film SLR to the DSLR. I can't imagine not having a "real" viewfinder.

If the story about the D60 is true it is only good news for me as it means that my ongoing investment in EF lenses is safe and with a bit of luck the D60 will address the minor deficiencies of the D30. By the time the newbie makes the general marketplace, maybe I'll be ready for a 2nd body!

Brgds!

Peter Siciliano wrote:

Peter Gregg wrote:

One of the pro's I learn from and take classes and lessons from was
hired to demonstrate THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30 at the February
show. He is a big name guy.

So, that means there IS a camera - and Canon is calling it a
REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30!!!!! It is in real life and not a fantisy.
He was not told any info like mp size or when it will be available.
I guess they want a high end person to place the camera with.

THE D30 REPLACEMENT - YES!!!!!!! What neat NEAT words.

That's all.

Pete

Joo Veteran Member • Posts: 4,111
Re: EOS 1D vs. D60

I doubt it very much. The characteristics that make the EOS 1D special will not be matched in the new camera if the new camera is a D30 replacement.

The D30 is currently positioned at the low end of the DSLR market. As such, a replacement would also target that market. The 1D targest the high end PJ market with a high sequential shot rate (8fps), fast write times, good high ISO performance, great AF, etc... I doubt these things will be matched by the D30 replacement.

Joo

Michael Martin wrote:

Peter Gregg wrote:

For those who asked, the PMA show is in Orlando in Feb of 2002. It
will start on the 24th and go on for 4 days.

Also keep in mind, if an announcement were made in Feb, the real
delivery would not really start until much later in the year. The
D30 didn't start delivering until Sept I think. Those that can wait
fine, in the mean time, the D30 is no slouch of a camera. I make
salable prints from it and it is amazing still to me.

Pete

Is my 2 week old EOS 1D going to be obsolete now?

-- hide signature --

Joo C. Chung-------------------------------------------Canon D-30 & PowerShot S100Maybe one day I'll take a decent picture.

 Joo's gear list:Joo's gear list
Canon PowerShot G1 X Canon EOS-1D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS M +2 more
Peter Stewart Regular Member • Posts: 129
Peter...For Shame!

Peter, I take you to task for your posting about the D60. It seems that some people, like little kids, just can't take privileged information and keep it to themselves. They must be the FIRST to SHOUT IT TO THE WORLD!

It's an all too human failing to be sure but it too often creates a lot of hurt. I fear it's possible here.

What the man you refer to as your personal teacher, etc. said, I must admit, was out of line. He made a terrible mistake. He should not have let the genie out of the bottle, and for that he must be and I fear, will be, held accountable.

But, what bothers me every bit as much is how you ran screaming here to tell everyone about it. One of the reasons it bothers me is how you have portrayed your position in this and declared a few words in a post as a Public Proclamation confirming an impending release. It IS NO SUCH THING!!!! Canon itself has not released a flipping thing.

I am a close personal friend of the man you call your personal photography trainer. I asked him about it this morning. His reply: "What a joke." You participate in an online teaching forum; this does NOT make you a special pupil of a very special man.

At this point in time I feel I'm as close to this man as any, and I see him on a regular basis. At times, when I have a specific problem or question he will take the time to give me of his wisdom but I know him to be extremely busy and hard working despite a very advanced age and has little time for personal tutoring. He has NO personal students!!!

Please, for the sake of your ego (and what you feel is confirmation of your importance, and therefore, credibility) stop telling people you have a special relationship that gives you an inside track.

Again, I wish to make it absolutely clear that what was said by him in his forum was a mistake. He is the one ultimately responsible for this, not you, and as I already said, I fear he might pay a terrible price himself.

You just furthered it because the word will spread quickly as a result. And to no good end. Except perhaps, the feeling of importance you have for being the first to tell everyone. I guess that's pretty important, eh?

I'd like to mention that, as a result of my friendship with him I had the opportunity to personally handle and fire off quite a few frames with a 1D a fair time before it's introduction.

I never said a word to anyone in the world about it.

I know it's going to be real hard not to take this personally; I think I would. But, for one of the rare times I ever write anything in these forums, I needed to comment on this.

Peter Stewart

Mike Greer Contributing Member • Posts: 599
Re: Peter...For Shame!

Peter Stewart,

It seems to me that your response to Peter Gregg is a little over the top. Yes, when I initially read his posts I felt he gave the indication of a personal relationship with regard to his instructor. So I reread his posts. I'd say they're on he border with regard to characterizing the nature of the relationship, but the posts are indeed accurate. It really matters not how the instructor views the relationship. What matters is how Peter views it and what he's gleeming from it. Many of us have had others look toward us for guidane and direction without us even knowing it! When I'm in that position, I'm always humbled at the way view our relationship. But I've learned to respect it even if I don't feel the same way because I too have "relationships" with people that have influence over me and I've never dialoged with them in any format! When you're in the position of teacher/leader/etc. it comes with the territory. The teacher in question here ought to know that AND respect it. And another thing, I too am an insctructor in digital imaging. And yes, I take a tremendous amount of "unnecessary" time away from my family to address the needs of my students. And yes, they are tremendously grateful for all that I do for and with them. But you know what? THEY give me more than I give them. How so? Because while I know who I am and why I'm here (in the larger sense), it feels so good to be reaffirmed in your expertise. It feels so good to know that you have something that others want. It feels so good to be acknowledged. Listen, I've read the online forum in question. There is a LOT of ego messaging going on over there. When I say that, I'm not trying to be mean spirited. Nor am I necessarily saying that it is a bad thing. I'm just being accurate in reporting what I read. The point is that the instructor in question gets as much, if not more from those who follow him, as those who follow him get from him. So don't don't characterize these relationships as all one way. He's just giving tremendously of himself as if he's some type of maryter. Recognize what he's getting as well.

In addition, by writing publically that the instructor commented, "What a joke", in reference to Peter, that could cause unnecessary pain and humiliation. After all, it is obvious that Peter has a lot of respect and admiration for the instructor. You've essentially told him that the instructor could care less. That's hurtful and there's no reason to publically post that.

Lastly. If he was under NDA, HE surely blew it. Don't blame Peter. In my opinion, Peter is simply serving the greater Canon digital community faithfully. If you read what the instructor wrote, he gives NO indication whatsoever that this is hush hush. In fact, HE's using it to get people to join him at PPA and WPPI. I don't know tha man personally. I've read many of his articles online and in print. But it reads like, "Hey, I'm on the inside track with Canon and at PMA and WPPI I'm only 1 of 2 people in the US to get this puppy. So come hang out with me so you can be cool too.". Of course, this is my opinion. But what I'm saying is that the accoutability BELONGS on the instructor, NOT on Peter. Not even 1% on Peter. Not even 0.000001% on Peter. He was excited to hear the news, and I was excited to read his posts. He is innocent of ANY wrong doing.

BJNY Forum Member • Posts: 81
Re: Peter...For Shame!

Peter Stewart wrote:

Again, I wish to make it absolutely clear that what was said by him
in his forum was a mistake. He is the one ultimately responsible
for this, not you, and as I already said, I fear he might pay a
terrible price himself.

I agree with Mr. Stewart's reply.

Perhaps Mr. Zucker will not pay too terribly a price as the Canon reps have been dropping strong hints since PhotoEast NYC Nov. 2001 of the impending this second pro-caliber digital camera body.

Peter Stewart Regular Member • Posts: 129
Re: Peter...For Shame!

Mike,

Perhaps I could take minor issue with some of what you wrote but that would be nit-picky and petty on my part.

I read and pondered what you said and can't find any room for substantial disagreement. If I were to be a bystander reading each post I would have some agreement with each; your points were well made.

There's not one of us infallible and not subsceptible to human frailities.

Only comment I would like to make it try and use paragraphs a little more; reading long blocks of text can get confusing.

Peter Stewart

Peter Stewart Regular Member • Posts: 129
Aaah, uh..one more note

I guess I also need to add that I felt a little upset about Monte's gaff and the fact it was immediately picked up and broadcast and perhaps didn't take the time I should have to give a more considered response.

That particularly applies to the comment I passed on characterizing Peter's relationship. I know Monte fairly well and he's a bit short and gruff, especially online, mainly because he's so pressed for time. When he said what he did I know full well it was a quick reply and one made out of haste due to a characterization of a relationship that didn't exist in that realm.

I certainly did no further good in what I said.

Slap, slap

You've chastised me and so have I.

Peter Stewart

Fred Greaves
Fred Greaves Regular Member • Posts: 111
Perfect example of a rumor!

This is a textbook example of a rumor:

I heard something vague from a source that I can't name...

Fact: The 1D is one heck of a replacement for the D30.

-- hide signature --

Fred

--Fred GreavesPhotojournalist-Southern Californiawww.fredgreaves.com

Larry H. Smith Veteran Member • Posts: 6,270
Re: Perfect example of a rumor!

Fred,

I for one appreciated the info. I consider it "what is so-far known" not "something vague".

I applaud Peter's clearly-stated reason for NOT "naming" the source, for whom he obviously has great respect.

Others, myself included, have since found the source, and he HAS been named (not by me).

This source DID say (publicly, ...the internet is as public as-it-gets) that he would be getting the "replacement for the D30" to use, and demo at PMA (Orlando).and a Vegas show. AND that an associate would be getting another one.

The stature-in-the-photographic community of BOTH men is such that their credibility is not suspect.

As a baseless rumour, I consider this one to be far from "perfect"

Maybe we have different textbooks

Larry

Fred Greaves wrote:

This is a textbook example of a rumor:

I heard something vague from a source that I can't name...

Fact: The 1D is one heck of a replacement for the D30.

Larry H. Smith Veteran Member • Posts: 6,270
In Defense of Peter G.

Peter S.,

I am bothering to make some observations, because you have made what I consider an unwarranted personal attack on peter G. (whom I do not know), and I think it deserves a response.

I am aware that Mike Greer has done so, and well, but I have some things to add (I am also aware that you acknowledged M.G.'s post, but a few things went unremarked, IMHO):

Peter Stewart wrote:

Peter, I take you to task for your posting about the D60. It seems
that some people, like little kids, just can't take privileged
information and keep it to themselves. They must be the FIRST to
SHOUT IT TO THE WORLD!

NOT the first, ...the "trainer" was the first. And, like Mike said, made NO accompanying request for confidentiality.

It's an all too human failing to be sure but it too often creates a
lot of hurt. I fear it's possible here.

What the man you refer to as your personal teacher, etc. said, I
must admit, was out of line. He made a terrible mistake. He should
not have let the genie out of the bottle, and for that he must be
and I fear, will be, held accountable.

P.G. said nothing to judge/characterize the trainer's action. YOU do, quite negatively, calling it "a terrible mistake" for which "he must be held accountable".

But, what bothers me every bit as much is how you ran screaming
here to tell everyone about it. One of the reasons it bothers me is
how you have portrayed your position in this and declared a few
words in a post as a Public Proclamation confirming an impending
release. It IS NO SUCH THING!!!! Canon itself has not released a
flipping thing.

Is there something about the word "impending" (YOUR word) that you don't understand? It implies "not yet", ...exactly as you did, in the sentence which followed.

I am a close personal friend of the man you call your personal
photography trainer. I asked him about it this morning. His reply:
"What a joke."

If "the man" said this to you, did he say it intending for you to post it worldwide?

You participate in an online teaching forum; this
does NOT make you a special pupil of a very special man.

I didn't hear P.G. say he was a special-student, ...I DID hear him say the teacher was a special man. Hardly a disservice! (?)

At this point in time I feel I'm as close to this man as any, and I
see him on a regular basis. At times, when I have a specific
problem or question he will take the time to give me of his wisdom
but I know him to be extremely busy and hard working despite a very
advanced age and has little time for personal tutoring. He has NO
personal students!!!

Please, for the sake of your ego (and what you feel is confirmation
of your importance, and therefore, credibility) stop telling people
you have a special relationship that gives you an inside track.

Why does this sound so much like "He's not YOUR special-friend, ...He's MY special friend!"?

And why did you "Name-drop" the teachers name in your reply to M.G. (FIRST-name, we duly note, since YOU are so close. )

Some have been careful to "protect" the source's anonymity, IN-CASE he might prefer it (for reasons P.G. gave), ...you apparantly have no-such concerns for your "close personal friend" .

Again, I wish to make it absolutely clear that what was said by him
in his forum was a mistake. He is the one ultimately responsible
for this, not you, and as I already said, I fear he might pay a
terrible price himself.

Shouldn't/couldn't the teacher apologize for his own "mistake", if in-fact it WAS one? Or has he authorized you to speak-for-him?

You just furthered it because the word will spread quickly as a
result.

Absolutely-to-be-expected when anything is posted ON THE INTERNET (Hello?).

And to no good end.

The "end"? Sharing, with others who would like to know, ..the reason-for the existence of these forums. Many of us consider thai "good".

... xcept perhaps, the feeling of
importance you have for being the first to tell everyone. I guess
that's pretty important, eh?

I'd like to mention that, as a result of my friendship with him

(WE know, ...we know, ...he's YOUR friend!)

I had the opportunity to personally handle and fire off quite a few
frames with a 1D a fair time before it's introduction.

I never said a word to anyone in the world about it.

That's nice, if you were ASKED to keep it confidential.

I know it's going to be real hard not to take this personally; I
think I would. But, for one of the rare times I ever write anything
in these forums, I needed to comment on this.

"Needed" is the active word!

Peter Stewart

A final note: After beginning your reply to M.G. with mention of avoiding "nit-picking",etc., you end with a "pick" at his writing-style, ...which, incidentally, I didn't find "confusing" at all.

There's some transparency here, ...and it's not the "film" kind.
All-in-all, maybe one of those 'better-left-unsaid" posts.

Now about that new "D60" ...

Larry

Peter Stewart Regular Member • Posts: 129
Re: In Defense of Peter G.

I think I'll just throw your post into the stupid idiot file

JCDoss
JCDoss Veteran Member • Posts: 3,219
Re: How bout a cold one?

Mike Kelley wrote:

this isn't an obnoxious thread as
the one about jimwww who sold his D30 (who seems like a blithering
idiot -- if I knew as little as he obviously did before I spent
thousands of dollars I'd deserve a quick punch in the head with a
2x4).

Wow... you and jimwww must be bestest buddies! Bet you guys go out for beers after work on Fridays!

I agree with your post 100% (and the one in the other thread, which I wouldn't dare comment on,,, since the fool comments are already starting to roll in.).

JCDoss

 JCDoss's gear list:JCDoss's gear list
Pentax K-x Sony Alpha NEX-6
Lee Rothman Veteran Member • Posts: 4,789
Re: Yeah, but...

For all we know they may well call the next (improved) D30 a EOS 3D as it may well incorporate much of the EOS 3's features with a (hopefully) at least 6-10mp CMOS and eye control focus. Wouldn't that be awesome?

Michael Martin Senior Member • Posts: 1,440
What will Canon screw up on the next camera?

Lee Rothman wrote:

For all we know they may well call the next (improved) D30 a EOS 3D
as it may well incorporate much of the EOS 3's features with a
(hopefully) at least 6-10mp CMOS and eye control focus. Wouldn't
that be awesome?

Yes but given the track record of Canon with digital imaging: bad autofocus on the D30 and banding on the 1D, they won't get it right.

Larry H. Smith Veteran Member • Posts: 6,270
Commendable effort, Peter!

Peter Gregg wrote:

Here is the dilema I am faced with. A lot of you are real nice guys
and we can argue, banter and learn from each other. On the other
hand, a lot of folks here can be rude, obnoxious and demanding. I
am not saying who is who because I don't want to offend -
especially on New Years!

For the reasons that I said, and the site I am referring to is
where I learn and take lessons, I don't want to give the site to
have brutes go over there in full force. I don't think it would be
right for me to do that out of respect to the folks over there.
There are some folks who frequent it that are here too by the way.
I notice that they too refrain from directing folks there. This
site (Dpreview) can generate a LOT of bandwidth, plus some of the
hostilities that go with it.

Peter, I want to say that your intent, and action, here, are RIGHT ON THE MONEY!

This is demonstrated by the "For Shame" and "Defense" posts lower on this thread.

Although others have since "revealed'" information you chose not-to, I compliment you on taking-the-trouble (and flak) to avoid "transporting" troublesome posters. I know that if I were the "host" in question, I would appreciate it.

Re. the "What a joke." quote, below, ...think very carefully about the motives of the poster before being discouraged by this. You are obviously impressed and pleased with this teacher, and appreciative of the relationship that the web-class permits, between instructor and student. This is ENTIRELY appropriate, and the teacher, if he is half as "good" as his reputation might suggest, KNOWS this. If (IF!) the remark was ever uttered, we don't know exactly what he had just-been-told that may have prompted his response. After "feeling" the tone of the other-party involved in the supposed "conversation", I can only imagine that an unflattering picture was being-painted FOR the instructor.

Thanks for sharing in a "responsible" way.

AFAIC, you "done good"!

Happy New Year,

Larry

Larry H. Smith Veteran Member • Posts: 6,270
Re: Yeah, but...sort-of

Lee Rothman wrote:

For all we know they may well call the next (improved) D30 a EOS 3D
as it may well incorporate much of the EOS 3's features with a
(hopefully) at least 6-10mp CMOS and eye control focus. Wouldn't
that be awesome?

Awesome, maybe, ...for some...as long as it has an "Off" switch.

I might be looking around in the VF to check composition, see what is/is-not in-focus, etc. In-that-case, I DON'T need the camera focussing on everything I look-at

Larry

Sam Kennard New Member • Posts: 17
Re: D60 - not rumor!!!

Read the bottom posting here.

http://www.zuga.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6076

Sam Kennard

Peter Gregg wrote:

Hi All,

First, Happy New Year to all here at Dpreview. Also to Phil for
being such a great host.

Here is the info I got. First, there is NO spec's or time schedule
on it's release. Got it? To those that are salivating instead of
reading, no info was given from Canon on it's features or release
schedule. So, you want to know what the big deal is. Here it is . .
.

One of the pro's I learn from and take classes and lessons from was
hired to demonstrate THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30 at the February
show. He is a big name guy.

So, that means there IS a camera - and Canon is calling it a
REPLACEMENT FOR THE D30!!!!! It is in real life and not a fantisy.
He was not told any info like mp size or when it will be available.
I guess they want a high end person to place the camera with.

THE D30 REPLACEMENT - YES!!!!!!! What neat NEAT words.

That's all.

Pete

 Sam Kennard's gear list:Sam Kennard's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS M3 Canon EF-M 28mm F3.5 Macro IS STM
Larry H. Smith Veteran Member • Posts: 6,270
Re: In Defense of Peter G.

Peter Stewart wrote:

I think I'll just throw your post into the stupid idiot file

Certainly easier than a point-by-point refutation.

Very classy! ( I guess you TOLD me

Larry

Peter Stewart Regular Member • Posts: 129
Re: In Defense of Peter G.

Please understand sir, I read your, ahem, post and rather than saying anything negative, I did as my mother taught me and, after due thought, paid you the highest compliment that came to mind.

You see, a point-by-point argument would have been futile; it's too much like fighting and you seem to want to battle, but you see sir, I've had a long standing principal that I will not enter into a battle of wits with one who is unarmed.

I wish you a fine and prosperous New Year.

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