New Pentax Patents - K10D?

There has been a flurry of threads on the PDML recently about the K10D and new Pentax patents. Many are whacky and downright funny, but one or two people seem to be in the know and have been sworn to silence, but they are dropping some huge hints!

It seems that Pentax have been very busy filing patents surrounding sensor and processing techniques.

I quote from one recent post about one particular patent (below):

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US7084915&F=0&QPN=JP2000341590&RPN=JP2000341590&DOC=d1a86118cf8640fbb36f2fe6ae55fccc73

Quote

"I think the fairly broad claim 8 gives the best summary on what they are doing. (Press "Claims" in the menu on top of the espace page).

Note that this may be the first of a number of applications. The inventor, Sato Koichi, is also the inventor of a number og Japanese patent applications that has been filed recently with the title "Solid State imaging element" and "Solid state imaging device" . Moire reduction without AA filter, improved aperture of light sensing diodes, microlenses covering more than one pixel etc.

They are working on something related to the sensor and it makes lots of interesting reading for those who are also interested in the technology. Use the advanced search option of espacenet and search for Sato Koichi as inventor (he seems tyo be the key inventor) and Pentax as applicant."
End quote.

I have also independently been advised from a very reliable source that the new K10D has a brand new ASIC.

The patents seem to state that the Image Pump cancels out the dark current, so no more noisy shadows and eliminates blooming, and perhaps effects over exposure?

This should quell all doubts about ISO noise problems, or dynamic range!

We've also had hints in this forum, that those who switch systems will kick themselves when they see what Pentax have on offer!

There is also a rumoured feature that will make one PDML poster move from his 6x7 gear and make the move to digital! Apparently it is so obvious, yet hasn't been implemented by anyone else, that many folk will be slapping their heads!

So I've put 2 and 2 together and come up with 42, which as we know, is the answer to life, the universe and everything!

So stand by! - only 29 days to go before the lifting of the official embargo, and as we know, things hot up significantly before then!

..... Sleep tignt!
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK

All this sounds very interesting, I can't wait till Pentax announce.

I just hope none of this is either pure speculation or vapourware; patents have a habit of sitting there and not becoming reality.

If Pentax really has been working on sensor technology itself then I can only think that these are the first results of the Pentax-Samsung partnership? or maybe this is totally independent of Samsung?

Reduced noise, moire and increase dynamic range sounds good to me (perhaps too good)

We will all know on Sep 14!

Maybe it's all for the next body! He, he!
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK

cheddargav wrote:

Exactly why I'm not giving up on them despite my constant UK
availability whinings!!

I guess that's the joy of the internet, but then most consumers don't want to buy into a camera system that's effectively mail order only!

But seriously, if these innovations matierialise in products and bring real benefits they still want stand for much unless Pentax promotes them strongly in advertising and reviewers highlight them.

Systems such as anti-shake are great consumer hooks because they can be turned on and off and consumers can really see the difference - its a tangible feature.

Elements such Panasonic's Venus Engine II, Sony's Bionz and Canon's whatever its called are more enigmatic because they are systems of processors and tweaked algorithms - they can't be turned off and there isn't a consumer friendly button to press. They become part of the greater brand name and consumers seem to filter them out a bit and focus on megapixel ratings, anti-shake and huge zooms - this they can see and touch (all IMHO of course).

I hope Pentax manages to package these innovations in a consumer friendly/appealing way such that help to sell cameras and lenses.

cheddargav wrote:

It'd just be nice to walk into my local Jessops and try out some
Pentax lenses, rather than have to order blind from New York!

I guess its indicative but I actually get excited if I actually see a pentax lens in the flesh. Even if its a poor lens or one I don't need or want!

Hi Richard!

There has been a flurry of threads on the PDML recently about the
K10D and new Pentax patents. Many are whacky and downright funny,

The patents or the posts?

This should quell all doubts about ISO noise problems, or dynamic
range!

No. It merely says Pentax is acknowledging the issue and working on something and they think that their method works/will work well enough to file a patent for. Not more, not less.

There is also a rumoured feature that will make one PDML poster
move from his 6x7 gear and make the move to digital!

Auto Focus?

1. buwahahaha#

Cheers
Jens

JensR wrote:
Hi Richard!

There has been a flurry of threads on the PDML recently about the
K10D and new Pentax patents. Many are whacky and downright funny,

The patents or the posts?

LOL!

This should quell all doubts about ISO noise problems, or dynamic
range!

No. It merely says Pentax is acknowledging the issue and working on
something and they think that their method works/will work well
enough to file a patent for. Not more, not less.

I think there is a lot of work going on from what I can glean from the inside track.

There is also a rumoured feature that will make one PDML poster
move from his 6x7 gear and make the move to digital!

Auto Focus?

1. buwahahaha#

ROTFL! - If you haven't done so already, you need to read some of the posts on the PDML they will have you in stitches!

Your bizarre sense of the ridiculous and understanding of English is so good that I feel ashamed that my German is only a few badly pronounced words!

richardday wrote:

ROTFL! - If you haven't done so already, you need to read some of
the posts on the PDML they will have you in stitches!

...or wanting to hit someting.

cheddargav wrote:

richardday wrote:

We've also had hints in this forum, that those who switch systems
will kick themselves when they see what Pentax have on offer!

Exactly why I'm not giving up on them despite my constant UK
availability whinings!!

I've been doing a lot of moaning recently about that too, but I've decided to stop worrying and just enjoy what I have - my DS is still a great camera and it looks like whatever gets announced in September is going to be something special...

-Steve M/

richardday wrote:

The patents seem to state that the Image Pump cancels out the dark
current, so no more noisy shadows and eliminates blooming, and
perhaps effects over exposure?

The patent says this, in the problem description:

"When a temperature of air surrounding the CCD becomes high, or when an accumulating period of the electric charge becomes long, a dark current occurs in the light receiving elements, and thus, unwanted electric charges are generated in the light receiving elements."

So dark current doesn't seem to be referring to problems with shadow noise, or overexposure (though that last is open to interpretation, I guess). It appears to be referring specifically to the problems of long exposure and heat, which we currently use NR (which shoots and processes a dark frame) to solve.

Just my interpretation though.

This should quell all doubts about ISO noise problems, or dynamic
range!

Perhaps -- I haven't read the other patents yet. I really don't think this specific patent is referring to anything like that though.

We've also had hints in this forum, that those who switch systems
will kick themselves when they see what Pentax have on offer!

We've had lots of people stating things as fact without any evidence. Sounds a lot like 'truthiness' to me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness

Here's the quote for the lazy:

"Truthiness is a satirical term coined by Stephen Colbert in reference to the quality by which a person claims to know something intuitively, instinctively, or "from the gut" without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or actual facts."

So I've put 2 and 2 together and come up with 42, which as we know,
is the answer to life, the universe and everything!

LOL, just keep your towel handy!

Pete

This should quell all doubts about ISO noise problems, or dynamic
range!

This is all very interesting and thanks very much for posting it... but nothing will quell my doubts.... not patents or claims or an announcement from pentax or anything.... EXCEPT sample pics and even then only a good number of them from multiple sources.

Thanks again for posting though it is really interesting to chew on...
Also... thanks for all the fish.

• mike

If these things provide tangible improvements in pictures compared to current systems from other manufacturers then they will be trumpeted far and wide and pentax will not be able to make enough of them until the others catch up.

That's all only true if it's in a good camera which doesn't cripple some other aspect of use.

If it offers some advancements for some trade offs then it will be a harder sell.

If it equals the other systems or only a little better then it's a harder sell.

If it really works though it will become the benchmark and be mentioned in every review of every other product all the time.

Marketing is always important....but the target consumers at this level of camera are generally informed buyers I think. That's a huge difference to a product which is more mass market.

-mike

pjv wrote:

richardday wrote:

The patents seem to state that the Image Pump cancels out the dark
current, so no more noisy shadows and eliminates blooming, and
perhaps effects over exposure?

The patent says this, in the problem description:

"When a temperature of air surrounding the CCD becomes high, or
when an accumulating period of the electric charge becomes long, a
dark current occurs in the light receiving elements, and thus,
unwanted electric charges are generated in the light receiving
elements."

Read the rest:

"In such a case, in the CCD of the full frame transfer type, the unwanted electric charges generated in a light receiving element flow into light adjacent light receiving, so that a smear occurs, which may cause the quality of an image signal to deteriorate."

Sounds like noise reduction system to me.

OzSavage wrote:

Read the rest:

"In such a case, in the CCD of the full frame transfer type, the
unwanted electric charges generated in a light receiving element
flow into light adjacent light receiving, so that a smear occurs,
which may cause the quality of an image signal to deteriorate."

Sounds like noise reduction system to me.

Yes, but it still sounds like preventing the sort of noise you get from long exposures and heat (take a few long exposures with NR off to see it). Since those are the only situations when the patent says it's used, I don't see how it could be anything else.

Pete

Sounds interesting but will wait to see if its for their digitial cameras or for their endoscopes. The reason I say this, is in this and the the other related patent they talk about the use in endoscopes.

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US7084915&F=0

"Conventionally, in an imaging device (i.e., CCD) of a full frame transfer type, which is provided in an electronic endoscope"