Another Photographer Arrested

Started Jul 27, 2006 | Discussions
rennie12 Senior Member • Posts: 2,844
Yup, not a good thing. BUT ->

No actual cause for thinking America is "sliding toward fascism" either !

I am an American. I remember being particularly pround when the judge at my mother's naturalization ceremony pointed out all new citizens were just as much Americans as George Washington was !!

However America is not, unfortunately, perferct - unlike the European and Asian countries whose citizens hate us so...LOL.

The Philadelphia police are famous...perhaps infamous would be a better description.

And if you think THIS is bad - being threatened over a cell phone - trust me, you should have seen US police behaviour in the Deep South in the 1940s and 1950s.

Or in New Orleans in the 1960s. Or Chicago in the 1920s.

Little understood - even by some Americans - is the fact that police powers in the US (outside of the somewhat limited constitutional protections) springs from local laws - at best State law and in many cases local county or city laws.

It is very little understood by non-Americans that the US is NOT run by a central government. This is a Federal Republic - the central government runs the Military, foreign relations, and INTERSTATE trade - but everything not specifically allocated to the Federal government by the constitution is specifically reserved to the State governments.

Virtually every other government in the world is a central government - all Parliamentary systems are central, with the lower branches being divisions of the the higher ones, and all the rules are basically the same.

It is very hard for nonlawyers to grasp the fact that in the case, say, of a murder, theft or assault - local laws are really the ONLY laws involved; the Federal laws are not involved at all provided no violations of Federal statutes occur.

About 90% of all US laws are local or STate - and they vary tremendously from one locale to another, as does the cultural regard for and actions by police.

There are some US police jurisdictions where great care is HIGHLY sensible in dealing with police. If, for example, you are stopped by a police officer in New York's Theatre district at 11:00 and you are slightly drunk (not driving) - and you become angry, and called a cop a "stupid gay cop" - he will probably just roust you a little and let you go if you have no warrants.

If you are in a small town in West Virgina and get arrested under the same circumstances, and do the same thing, you are gonna have some bruises.

If you are in a small town in, say, south Georgia, and are arrested and behave the same way, you are gonna be a world of hurt - maybe legal, maybe not.

My point is - the police are all different, all over the US. The laws and cultural situations are all different, all over the US. Better you should suit you behaviour to the real world possible consequences rather than theoretical political or social attitudes...
--
Best wishes, rennie12

Wayne Larmon Forum Pro • Posts: 10,376
Presidents Reagan and Bush?

Craig Gillette wrote:

Of course we could consider this another link in the chain forged
by Reagan and the first President Bush (VP at the time) when the
local cops dropped a bomb on a row house.

How were Presidents Reagan and Bush involved with that?

Wayne

harrygilbert Senior Member • Posts: 2,799
Re: It's Philadelphia

Actually, in Detroit, the dead DO vote. But they finally tossed out the corrupt elections clerk, and there's a pretty decent person currently in that office.

Brian wrote:

I don't know. Does Detroit have Philidephia beat with kwame
kilpatrick?
In Detroit, once in office, you are in office as long as you want
and can do whatever you want because unless all the people are
dead, they'll still vote for you. Now if you were in Chicago, not
even death would prevent you from voting.

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Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 50D Canon EOS-1D Mark IV Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye +17 more
Craig Gillette Veteran Member • Posts: 9,998
Re: Presidents Reagan and Bush?

They weren't. Any more than President Bush was involved with this or that his policies are directly related to the end of the world as we know it.. But that doesn't stop the "Blame Buish" crowd, heKK, I think they'd rush to blame him for my tires not holding air - part of a conspiracy to keep oil consumtion up.

Next we'll hear from John Kerry that this wouldn't have happened if he was President.

mrmagoo1962 Senior Member • Posts: 1,006
Re: Presidents Reagan and Bush?

Wayne,

Everything bad that happens in this world is the fault of the Republicans. Haven't you heard?

Free elections in Afghanistan and Iraq? That was a direct result of Al Gore inventing the internet dontcha know.

(sarcasm)

Jon Bell Junior Member • Posts: 47
Re: Another Photographer Arrested

slipe wrote:

If the ACLU rep who commented is correct then the law will likely
be overturned by the courts as being unconstitutional.

You're assuming that such a law actually exists.

tyoung Veteran Member • Posts: 8,375
Re: Presidents Reagan and Bush?

Craig Gillette wrote:

They weren't. Any more than President Bush was involved with this
or that his policies are directly related to the end of the world
as we know it.. But that doesn't stop the "Blame Buish" crowd,
heKK, I think they'd rush to blame him for my tires not holding air

  • part of a conspiracy to keep oil consumtion up.

Next we'll hear from John Kerry that this wouldn't have happened if
he was President.

Two day's into this thread and there hasn't yet been a single post attempting to blame the Bush administration for this incident.

Ok, I'll bite. The Philadelphia police were acting under the directive of none other than Richard Cheney via a secure link to his underground bunker. His original order was to bomb the neighborhood from a helicopter but that was reconsidered when he discovered that Sec. Rice couldn't make it back to Philly in time for the subsequent peace talks.

With that out of the way, I'm looking forward to hearing what John Kerry has to say on this.

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Ryan McDaniel Regular Member • Posts: 449
Sue!!!

The only way to actually get the point across to police agencies across the country that photography in public areas is legal and, arguably, a protected exercise of free speech and the press under the first amendment, is to sue every time this happens.

Only when agencies across the country start losing a noticeable number of lawsuits and amount of money will this become a talking point before cops are sent out into the field. "Remember, don't harass photographers...we can't afford to lose ten million like those guys in Phili..."

The man arrested should sue, just like this guy did:
http://www.photopermit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265

Roger Krueger Senior Member • Posts: 2,785
Re: Sue!!!

The thing about that is it seems a lot of police departments live in their own little world--it's not a problem until they themselves get sued. What went down elsewhere isn't much noticed. Which is how you end up with the occasional rural department still living in the 40's.

Roger Krueger Senior Member • Posts: 2,785
Re: Presidents Reagan and Bush and Kennedy?

If you can hold presidents responsible for local official's actions, shouldn't Kennedy have had to answer for Bull Connor's firehose-the-kids episode?

Wayne Larmon Forum Pro • Posts: 10,376
Al Gore and the Internet

mrmagoo1962 wrote:

Free elections in Afghanistan and Iraq? That was a direct result of
Al Gore inventing the internet dontcha know.

(sarcasm)

Actually, Al Gore gets a bum rap on this. Back when he was in the Senate, he was one of the prime movers in getting legislation enacted that was important to the creation of the Internet. He was pushing for it back in the mid 80s.

Al Gore and the Creation of the Internet
http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/

Scroll down about half way to see the kind of legislation he was involved in. And some excerpts from Senate speeches where he was promoting a (non-existent at the time) "Information Highway", back in the mid 1980s. This was the Apple II era. He was truly a visionary and a heavy weight mover and shaker in creating the Internet

Sometimes the late night comedians are wrong. It is sad that the popular history of this has been so distorted.

I should state that I am not otherwise a fan of Al Gore. Noooo, no no.

Wayne

DavidMaven Senior Member • Posts: 2,975
Philly cops not known for kindness towards civilians (nt)
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OP marcuson Senior Member • Posts: 1,014
Re: Presidents Reagan and Bush?

tyoung wrote:

Two day's into this thread and there hasn't yet been a single post
attempting to blame the Bush administration for this incident.

Er...yes there has...

You didn't see those dozen or so posts that got pulled about this time yesterday, some with the subject, "Bush policy".

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No lie can live forever. They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as truth, rather than truth as authority.

Gerald Massey

monopoly Forum Member • Posts: 63
Doesn't make it right...

Still i've just read the original post and it's insane... what's the world coming to?

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'Skill in photography is acquired by pratise and not by purchase'

lanef Forum Pro • Posts: 10,317
Re: Yup, not a good thing. BUT ->

How did you come to that conclusion that people from Europe and Asia hate American citizens?

If many of them do not like Bush, that does not mean they hate Americans. I have traveled a lot in Asia and I have met many friendly American tourists who are at ease and well respected in Asia. I live in Australia; frankly I do not like our prime minister, which does not mean I hate myself.

rennie12 wrote:

However America is not, unfortunately, perferct - unlike the
European and Asian countries whose citizens hate us so...LOL.

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