OT: I want to get an Apple PC

[Bernie Ess]

To me, the Mac OS is vastly
superior to Windows. Way more stable OS. Almost no application
crashes, and when they do occur, the OS is almost never effected.
Everything is so much easier and more friendly and more fun to use.

You don't seem to have had so much contact with (Win) reality in the last 3 years or is it 4 since XP came out? Your experience is - thats true - a Win98 experience. At that time I was "very interested in the OS" all the time, studying where is what etc.

Since XP I gradually forgot most about the computer, because I just use it every day and it works. Period. I dont know how many crashes I had in the last 2 years, I think 2 reboots because of a faulty shareware prog, but that is a total exception.

And dont say "this is rather untypical", because it is not. Functionality of software like photoshop and Word or whatever are practically 100% identical between Win and Mac. This ongoing debate is simply a "my toy is better" thing. With the difference that generally Mac boys are getting much more anal with "their" brand. Hey, it is just a f* ing product you buy. You paid more BTW.

What a joke.

bernie

 

[KEG]

Get Parallels, it works great.

--
KEG ( http://www.pbase.com/k_e_g )

 

[Greg M]

If you do all of your e-mail, surfing and downloading in OSX and only run programs in XP that don't connect to the internet then there is no need for virus software. I have the network connection turned off in Parrallels and only turn it on when I have to have it. No problems here.

yes you will need anti-virus software. your mac will be just as
susceptible to adware, spyware and viruses as a normal PC would be.
I suggest you give it a good think over whether or not you NEED to
use XP. Running programs natively WILL be faster and also you will
quickly fall in love with Mac OS X and find XP a chore to use.

--
Greg M

2004 Boston Red Sox World Series Champions
Best of all was handing the Yankees the worst defeat in baseball history!

 

[Anthony14707]

Sounds like what I went through when I bought my Harley davidson.

Oh man...the Harley VS the Metric bike debate.

Great posting.

 

[Anthony14707]

Unfortunately, I own a lot of software in the PC environment
already (C1 Le, PanoTools) and it would be too costly for me to get
these again in the mac version.

Yes, me too.

However, I 'm finding out that we could still use ALL of that software on the iMac with the proper Apple software.

 

[Greg M]

First let me say that I generally have had very stable PC's. I did finally make the switch to the Mac about 1.5 years ago. I still have 3 PC's as well as Parrallels on my MBP but the Mac experience is by far better then any PC use. My wife does medical transcription and I had to make her switch (kicking and screaming) to a Mac because I was tired of fixing her computer for her. After just a day or so she was thrilled with her Mac Mini.

Up unitl Apple switched to Intel there were some very good reasons to stick with a PC. Speed of the portables and ability to run needed software were the two biggest. Both of those problems have now been addressed for most users. Now most users have no reason not to switch. So why switch? Well ...

Since XP I gradually forgot most about the computer, because I just
use it every day and it works. Period. I dont know how many crashes
I had in the last 2 years, I think 2 reboots because of a faulty
shareware prog, but that is a total exception.

If you have a well built PC with all quality parts, use quality programs, are very careful while connected to the web and have the latest greatest update for your virus software then I agree that you can have a fairly trouble free PC. However, when something does go wrong it can be a major PITA to fix. Even Microsoft has admitted this year that sometimes an infected PC just has to be wiped clean and a fresh install done.

BTW, a fresh install on a PC is a pain that takes forever. I've spent all day trying to get a PC set-up depending on what it was being used for. A fresh install on a Mac is a snap that takes less then an hour.

Windows is a house of cards. It's great wile you protect it from damage but if something goes wrong it brings everything down with it.

And dont say "this is rather untypical", because it is not.
Functionality of software like photoshop and Word or whatever are
practically 100% identical between Win and Mac. This ongoing debate
is simply a "my toy is better" thing. With the difference that

I'll take a toy that has no viruses, spyware or any of the other cr@p that PC's get. That is why I switched.

generally Mac boys are getting much more anal with "their" brand.
Hey, it is just a f* ing product you buy. You paid more BTW.

This is totally wrong. The MacBook is actually cheaper then any other laptop configured the same. Macs may be slightly higher then PC's with the same configuration but when you include the other hidden costs of using PC's the Mac turns out to be a very good deal. No protection subscriptions needed. Basically no down time compared to PC's. Those two right there add up to a lot.

What a joke.

The joke is Microsoft security.

bernie

--
Greg M

2004 Boston Red Sox World Series Champions
Best of all was handing the Yankees the worst defeat in baseball history!

 

[Greg M]

Unfortunately, I own a lot of software in the PC environment
already (C1 Le, PanoTools) and it would be too costly for me to get
these again in the mac version.

Yes, me too.

However, I 'm finding out that we could still use ALL of that
software on the iMac with the proper Apple software.

Yes you can but you will find that over time you'll want to get the Mac version whenever you can. In the meantime you can use Parrallels. Also keep in mind that many companies offer a free or very cheap cross platform upgrade.

--
Greg M

2004 Boston Red Sox World Series Champions
Best of all was handing the Yankees the worst defeat in baseball history!

 

[Steven Noyes]

I find navigating between windows much more cumbersome. I tend to
keep most of my windows maximized and use Alt-tab or the Task Bar

I hate to say this, but the "maximized" approach is a very Windows method. Might make sense if you have very limited screen real-estate, however. OS X works off a toggle between optimized (or view specific) and a user size and doesn't really have the "Maximize" feature you are used to in Windows. But then again, I maximize icon in windows but do use the green icon to shrink some apps (like iTunes) and other such stuff.

to jump back and forth between them. I can't find anything similar
on the Mac. Every time I want to switch windows, I have to make a
trip to the Dock, click the corresponding app, then go to its

That is a bit easier than taking a trip to the TaskBar. With the dock, you have control over the location of each item where the TaskBar is almost (but not really) random.

If you like Alt-Tab. Use Command-Tab on the Mac. Same thing.

Window menu and pick the desired window -- I haven't found any way
to get a list of all the windows I have open (in all apps) as
provided by the Taskbar in Windows or to easily jump between the
most recently used windows as provided by Alt-tab. There is a
fancy thing called Expose' where you hit a PF key and the screen
fills with reduced versions of all your windows and you can click
the one you want but in most cases it's less efficient than the
Windows mechanisms. I don't want cool and fancy, I want efficient.

I find it just the opposite. Assign the Expose' functions to various mouse keys (you did go out and get a 5-6 button mouse right?) and it is very fast and easy to manage many many windows at one time. I tend to have about 30+ open Apps running on OS X with about 60 windows going. Windows/task management is the one area there is no comparison between Mac and XP. Mac winds by miles; it is just a matter of learning the tools.

To save screen space, I set the Dock to hide except when the mouse
is near the edge (like you can with the Windows taskbar). When the
Dock pops up, its background is transparent, which I guess looks
cool, but from a usability standpoint just serves to make it
ambiguous whether your mouse actions are going to affect it or what
you see through it.

Hiding Docks (or TaskBars) is a recipe for a bad user experience if you keep multiple apps up and running. Move the Dock to the lief or right IMO for better use. Vertical screen real-estate is more $$$ than horizontal. Also, shrink the icons a bit.

Another thing that drives me crazy is that the windows don't have
reliable maximize buttons (as they did in OS 6 and 7). They have a
round green button that in a few apps will make the window fill
most or all of the screen, but in many cases it does some other
kind of resize. For example, if you click the green button in

Read above.

Since it's hard to maximize windows and it's hard to navigate
between them, I tend to end up with a messy arrangement of windows

Learn your Windows management tools; they are very extensive and you haven't bothered to learn any of them. This is like someone coming in here and saying, "I put my camera in "P" mode, don't do any PP and my pictures from my P&S look better". Learn the tool.

Steven

--
---
Summer 2006:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/gallery/images_summer_2006

 

[Steven Noyes]

OS X (it had a different name and skin at the time) was doing dock things way before Linux Kernel was a line of source;-)

Steven

--
---
Summer 2006:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/gallery/images_summer_2006

 

[Paul Richman]

That's an impressive set of products! The triple screen is amazing (and pricey). The laptops have me drooling a bit, as I'd like to have 4 GB of RAM and 320 GB of hard drive in a laptop, to say nothing of the sexy paint jobs, fast video, and 1920 x 1280 screen. Can't get any of this on a MacBook Pro right now. But Mac Expo is coming next month.....

But I do agree with GregM that the Mac experience of overall much nicer than with Windows. My wife uses Windows XP, as do some of my friends, and I help them maintain their systems. I had to reinstall Windows XP for a friend last year. What a bear!
--
Paul Richman
http://PixelsByPaul.COM

 

[Moon]

Ugh! No offense, but I'm pretty sure you hung this bait out intentionally. No one else has taken it yet, so I will (in good humor). Before you get smug, I'll give you my background.

By career I am a Network Engineer/Designer. I have absolutely no religious/fanboy OS preferences. Aside from the various Cisco, Nortel and Juniper device OSs, I work daily with NIX (Linux, HPUX, AIX, Solaris and BSD), Windows (XP, 2000 and 2003) and MAC (previously OS9x, now OS X 10x).

In my own house I run Windows 2003, Windows XP, Debian (Linux 2.6 kernel) and OS X 10.4.7. I am very well versed in each OS, not just an average user. I have everything from a simple SYSLOG server running on XP, to an 11 node Linux server farm clustered with XEN. My point is, I'm am more than willing to be called to task and get as advanced as you want.

My lack of zealotry gives me an advantage in an argument like this because I would never make silly, patently false statements like,

"Really, anything you can do in Windows, you can do
ten times better on a Mac, or with Unix..."

I think that this boils down to you being a MS Windows hater. I'll never understand that, but to each their own. I am no apologist. I will leave this post where it is. Consider it an open invitation to debate your outrageous assertions (not to clearly define one as better than other). I have a feeling you won't. It is just a matter of the fact that you 'LIKE' OS X better, not that it 'IS' better.

Yes, you can use Windows, no problem with Parallels (preferably) or
BootCamp, or even WINE. But a word of caution: you'll have no
reason to, unless you test websites for IE 6+, or CS2 for (for the
time being.) Really, anything you can do in Windows, you can do
ten times better on a Mac, or with Unix (built in to the OS).
Examples: Aperture, FCP are unbeatable. Postfix, Cyrus, DNS are
already built in. Office works better than the Windows version. AD
INFINITUM. Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't work with a Mac,
nor has one. Yes, EOS Utility requires a driver downgrade, but this
is the first time I've heard of a driver problem on the Mac side.

Macs can read ISOs no problem. Indeed, DOS, NTFS, etc. as well.

Here come the apologists...

I'e been eyeing the new Apple iMac dual core desktop system. From
what I've been reading, if I use the correct software, I can use my
Windows XP software. I really like the look and feel of the iMac,
and would love to get it for my home.

Question:

After having a PC for all these years, what are the drawbacks /
challanges that I face if I were to get the iMac?

Would I have a problem using my Canon software?

WOuld I have any issues with all my older pics that I archived
using programs like Nero or EZ creator?

Thanks.

--
-mike
winter park, fl - usa

 

[Christian Wagner]

The iMacs run Intel Core Duo. You're right in that they don't have two different chips like some G5's have, but they are the same chip as the MacBook Pros (well the MBP are 2.16 vs 2.0) and the iMacs came out with this chip before MBP's.
--
Christian Wagner
http://www.pbase.com/cbwagner

 

[dmanthree]

The new iMacs are dual-core, as are the new Mac minis, both of which are desktop systems.
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Shoots digital, still loves film.

 

[Karl Gohl]

Thanks Steven for the tips. Some responses are below.

I find navigating between windows much more cumbersome. I tend to
keep most of my windows maximized and use Alt-tab or the Task Bar

I hate to say this, but the "maximized" approach is a very Windows
method. Might make sense if you have very limited screen
real-estate, however. OS X works off a toggle between optimized
(or view specific) and a user size and doesn't really have the
"Maximize" feature you are used to in Windows. But then again, I
maximize icon in windows but do use the green icon to shrink some
apps (like iTunes) and other such stuff.

It's not a Windows thing. In earlier versions of the Mac there was a button in the corner of the window (a small square in the corner of a large square) that always maximized the window.

to jump back and forth between them. I can't find anything similar
on the Mac. Every time I want to switch windows, I have to make a
trip to the Dock, click the corresponding app, then go to its

That is a bit easier than taking a trip to the TaskBar. With the
dock, you have control over the location of each item where the
TaskBar is almost (but not really) random.

If you like Alt-Tab. Use Command-Tab on the Mac. Same thing.

My wife told me about Cmd-tab this morning, but many thanks Steve. This makes everything a lot easier.

Window menu and pick the desired window -- I haven't found any way
to get a list of all the windows I have open (in all apps) as
provided by the Taskbar in Windows or to easily jump between the
most recently used windows as provided by Alt-tab. There is a
fancy thing called Expose' where you hit a PF key and the screen
fills with reduced versions of all your windows and you can click
the one you want but in most cases it's less efficient than the
Windows mechanisms. I don't want cool and fancy, I want efficient.

I find it just the opposite. Assign the Expose' functions to
various mouse keys (you did go out and get a 5-6 button mouse
right?) and it is very fast and easy to manage many many windows at
one time. I tend to have about 30+ open Apps running on OS X with
about 60 windows going. Windows/task management is the one area
there is no comparison between Mac and XP. Mac winds by miles; it
is just a matter of learning the tools.

OK. I'll try to keep an open mind. I guess I'm just used to having a taskbar on the left edge and very wide so I can read the info about each window.

To save screen space, I set the Dock to hide except when the mouse
is near the edge (like you can with the Windows taskbar). When the
Dock pops up, its background is transparent, which I guess looks
cool, but from a usability standpoint just serves to make it
ambiguous whether your mouse actions are going to affect it or what
you see through it.

Hiding Docks (or TaskBars) is a recipe for a bad user experience if
you keep multiple apps up and running. Move the Dock to the lief
or right IMO for better use. Vertical screen real-estate is more
$$$ than horizontal. Also, shrink the icons a bit.

Yeah, I have it on the right. But I'm used to 1900x1200 and only have 1280x1024 on this Mac, so I set the AutoHide cuz the screen still seems cramped.

Another thing that drives me crazy is that the windows don't have
reliable maximize buttons (as they did in OS 6 and 7). They have a
round green button that in a few apps will make the window fill
most or all of the screen, but in many cases it does some other
kind of resize. For example, if you click the green button in

Read above.

Since it's hard to maximize windows and it's hard to navigate
between them, I tend to end up with a messy arrangement of windows

Learn your Windows management tools; they are very extensive and
you haven't bothered to learn any of them. This is like someone
coming in here and saying, "I put my camera in "P" mode, don't do
any PP and my pictures from my P&S look better". Learn the tool.

I spent quite a bit of time learning the capabilities of the Dock and I did discover Expose (even though there is no easily discoverable way to learn of its existence). This is something that surprised me. In the old days, Apple seemed to be a lot better than MS in making things discoverable, but my initial impression is that in OS X you are expected to dig thru Help to find a lot of basic capabilites.

Steven

--
---
Summer 2006:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/gallery/images_summer_2006

--
Karl (see Plan for equipment list)

 

[Mitch D]

Well, if you are buying an iMac. you may want to wait a few weeks or just over a month.

They are due for a refresh.

Great computer!!!

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

 

[digirob]

Well said, Moon.

I would add that both of the popular consumer OSs (MAC OS and Windows XP) are capable OSs with neither being "better" than the other.

I would submit that the better OS is the one you are most familiar with and that fits in with your particular style of working. I tend to prefer Windows for the greater selection of software and more access to gutty works. But that's me.

I have friends that prefer the MAC for some very good reasons and would never try to convince them that "Windows is better". Because for their need, it isn't better.

The Windows vs. Mac jihad has been fought for many years and there's still no consensus. Anymore I just have to laugh at anyone proclaiming that one is BETTER than the other.

Give it a rest......

--
dpreview & pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/digirob

 

[Steven Noyes]

Thanks Steven for the tips. Some responses are below.

Steven Noyes wrote:

It's not a Windows thing. In earlier versions of the Mac there was
a button in the corner of the window (a small square in the corner
of a large square) that always maximized the window.

When Apple was taken over by NeXT, those things got changed and the concept of "maximize" went away from the Mac as a workflow thing. For good or bad, it changed.

I spent quite a bit of time learning the capabilities of the Dock
and I did discover Expose (even though there is no easily
discoverable way to learn of its existence). This is something
that surprised me. In the old days, Apple seemed to be a lot
better than MS in making things discoverable, but my initial
impression is that in OS X you are expected to dig thru Help to
find a lot of basic capabilites.

I think that is true now-a-days with Apple and Microsoft. Imagine learning to use all the short-cuts in Windows now. They assume you have been using these systems for YEARS and already know them. So why provide any documentation. Do you know how many people don't know you can open an Explorer window with Window-'e'? It amazes me.

Steven

--
---
Summer 2006:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/gallery/images_summer_2006

 

[iomatic]

I wasn't discussing Media Access Controllers (MACs), but Macs (short for Apple's Macintosh platform).

I think I should add, In My Opinion (IMO) Macs are great, based on decades of computing platform experience spanning Atari, Commodore, Windows, Mac OS X, heck, even a DEC. For media, the Mac can't be beat, since today you can run three or more OSs on pretty stable hardware comparatively speaking at near full speed, thus opening the options to excellent choices in applications, server- or client-side. Indeed, FCP and Aperture are hard to beat, and is only available to Mac, thus excluding Windows- and Linux-based PCs.

It's not with smugness I say this (though my comment that the Mac is "ten times better" is admittedly an exaggeration, and unquantifiably subjective), it's with some level of experience in the visual arts both old school and electronically — I shoot and design professionally now for over a decade... you know what? I'll shut up. Don't believe me. It's just my opinion. Honestly, not really trying to start a flame war (perhaps a heated discussion.)

Just sayin'.

OK, back to shooting...

Well said, Moon.

I would add that both of the popular consumer OSs (MAC OS and
Windows XP) are capable OSs with neither being "better" than the
other.

I would submit that the better OS is the one you are most familiar
with and that fits in with your particular style of working. I
tend to prefer Windows for the greater selection of software and
more access to gutty works. But that's me.

I have friends that prefer the MAC for some very good reasons and
would never try to convince them that "Windows is better". Because
for their need, it isn't better.

The Windows vs. Mac jihad has been fought for many years and
there's still no consensus. Anymore I just have to laugh at anyone
proclaiming that one is BETTER than the other.

Give it a rest......

--
dpreview & pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/digirob

 

[Karl Gohl]

Steven Noyes wrote:

It's not a Windows thing. In earlier versions of the Mac there was
a button in the corner of the window (a small square in the corner
of a large square) that always maximized the window.

When Apple was taken over by NeXT, those things got changed and the
concept of "maximize" went away from the Mac as a workflow thing.
For good or bad, it changed.

Good point. I had forgotten about the NeXT influence -- I'm sure NeXT was specifically looking for things that they could do differently than on the Mac to support the idea that they were "newer and better".

I spent quite a bit of time learning the capabilities of the Dock
and I did discover Expose (even though there is no easily
discoverable way to learn of its existence). This is something
that surprised me. In the old days, Apple seemed to be a lot
better than MS in making things discoverable, but my initial
impression is that in OS X you are expected to dig thru Help to
find a lot of basic capabilites.

I think that is true now-a-days with Apple and Microsoft. Imagine
learning to use all the short-cuts in Windows now. They assume you
have been using these systems for YEARS and already know them. So
why provide any documentation. Do you know how many people don't
know you can open an Explorer window with Window-'e'? It amazes me.

Steven

Yeah, that's one of my favorite shortcuts and you're right, not something you can easily discover. I guess my point is that the taskbar is a discoverable way to navigate between windows. OS X only has a discoverable way (the dock) to navigate between apps , which seems strange to me since it's been agreed for a long time that the UIs should be doc-centric instead of app-centric.

Karl (see Plan for equipment list)

 

[G. Gray]

Maybe you will have come to your senses.