P880 raw samples please?

Started Jul 25, 2006 | Discussions
Fer Senior Member • Posts: 2,434
P880 raw samples please?

Hello,

does anyone have a good, detailed raw file from a P880?

It does not have to show anything interesting, just to be techically good and with detailed subjects.

I'm trying to do a small comparison between various raw converters (how they render fine details).

You may point me to a (even temporary) link, or send the zipped raw file(s) directly to my Gmail.com account (which is "fcarello @ ").

Thanks!

Fernando
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OP Fer Senior Member • Posts: 2,434
Re: P880 raw samples please?

A little bump to account for different time zones...

I promise I'll report my results back here!

Fernando
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demarren123456 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,663
Re: P880 raw samples please?

you can download by clicking on the link below.
Be awhere one picture is 13 mb

good luck,and hope you like the pictures.

ps the pictures will be online for 24 hour after thad the will be deleted.

http://users.pandora.be/marnix.claus/P880/

have fun
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Website http://pentalfa.zoto.com/ Kodak P880

OP Fer Senior Member • Posts: 2,434
First tests

Thanks to all the (two) people who kindly offered Raw samples: thanks Martin, thanks Demarren.

I started looking at Martin's picure. It was done with the lens at 24mm equiv. (full wideangle), f/3.6, ISO 50.
It includes detailed subjects and extreme light conditions.

Scene:

Now the first comparisons; 100% crops, conversion parameters as close as possible (I was unable to perfectly match WB and tone curves), no noise reduction no sharpening during conversion, USM in Photoshop after the conversion:

The Adobe Lightroom and Vuescan conversions seem slightly sharper, and noisier.

In general, the SilkyPix (free mode) conversion seems, well, smoother, with less luma noise everywhere and quite less chroma noise in the shadows, but also less details, to my eyes at least, when compared to Vuescan and Lightroom.

In the end, I found the Lightroom output more balanced. Not as sharp as Vuescan maybe, but less noisy.

So I put up Lightroom against Kodak Easyshare 6.0.1 (BTW: Easyshare does not save in 16 bits/channel, while all the other converters do).

To me, the Lightroom conversion is richer and more detailed.

Fernando
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OP Fer Senior Member • Posts: 2,434
Other tests

Onto Debarren's sample.

This time I left out Vuescan, since its output is too noisy for my tastes.

Original scene, as rendered by the 4 remaining converters:

It's evident that Silkypix added some cyan to the sky, while the two Adobe converters did overdo colors a bit (yellows and reds, and maybe greens, are quite vivid).
Easyshare shows some red/magenta cast.

After some WB equalization and a pass of USM, Easyshare still lacked some microcontrast, so I gave it another light USM pass.

The result, at 100% zoom:

Lots of good details, very little chromatic aberrations (here again, we are at 5.0mm f/4) and in general, we have a very good image quality from those raw files. Good reasons to be pleased, excellent work Kodak! Lens quality looks excellent, and the sensor isn't bad either (little blooming, good colors).

Fernando
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cdsgraphic Regular Member • Posts: 389
Re: another raw converter... ?

I have been following the progress of another raw converter called "Raw Therapee". can be found here: http://www.rawtherapee.com/
Others that used this converter seem to really like it.

It 'almost' supports the P series raw now but a few bugs need to be worked out. I am told that the next pre-release will support kodak raw natively.

If you would like to try / test this one as well it would be interesting to see how it compares to the others

A workaround for using kodak raw files for now is to use the free adobe DNG converter. I have done this a few times and it works fine. Just make sure when you convert the KDC to DNG file that the resulting DNG file is uncompressed.

These are some great tests, by the way. I want to start using raw more often.

Thanks for your efforts,
Trevor

reway Veteran Member • Posts: 6,406
Re: Other tests

Fernando as far as the noise i like SilkyPix best
Trevor been trying Raw Therapee & like it also
it works on Jpeg files as well
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Atindra Veteran Member • Posts: 7,408
Re: Other tests

Well, first of all congratulations and thanks for very nice tests. It is very informative and useful for all those who are planning to purchases P-series cams with the intention to use RAW.
Atindra

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demarren123456 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,663
Re: Other tests

Good work Fer I thid know every raw conversion make your picture diference.
How do the raw converters compare against adobe CS.
As it is the only program I use.
Thanks so muts for the info

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Demarren
Using Nikon D70-s and Kodak P880
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Website http://pentalfa.zoto.com/ Kodak P880

thedoyman Regular Member • Posts: 313
Re: Other tests

Thank you for that info! In my case, on each tests, I kinda like SilkyPix better than the others.

I own a P850 and I never tried the RAW mode. I'll have to do this soon. I have a question though. What is the major reason to use RAW instead of the best JPEG available?
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AnandaSim Forum Pro • Posts: 13,422
Re: another raw converter... ?

I tried Raw Therapee - it crashed when loading the KDC. Is that expected? I'll get the Adobe DNG to play.

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AnandaSim Forum Pro • Posts: 13,422
Re: Other tests

Are you going to give Biddle and DPMagic a try?

http://www.bibblelabs.com/

http://www.dpmagic.com/

Excellent work so far. Many thanks

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cdsgraphic Regular Member • Posts: 389
Re: another raw converter... ?

Yes, I had emailed the author and this is a problem with KDC files at this time.

the only way at this time (until the next release) is to convert the KDC to a DNG file.

Trevor

OP Fer Senior Member • Posts: 2,434
Thanks! Replies...

Many thanks to all of you for your contributions!

Replies in random order

  • Yes, plan to give Bibble and other raw converters a try, including Raw Therapee through DNG if still necessary.

  • Adobe Photoshop CS does not support P880 Raw files: an upgrade to CS2 is needed (you will need Adobe Camera Raw 3.3 at least, while CS stops to 2.4)

  • I am delighted by the smoothness of SilkyPix, too. Lightroom pulls out some more real details, but the noise is quite more visible. In the end SilkyPix may provide a better balance.

  • The best reasons to shoot Raw... there are so many of them, that I don't know where to start from.

Let's see:

1. Ability to control all the conversion parameters at "developing" time instead that sticking to what the camera adopted when the JPG was created

2. Far better control of detail extraction and noise suppression, even on a per-conversion basis
3. Ability to set WB after the shot to better reproduce scene colors
4. Ability to compensate (to a point) under- and over-exposures, after the shot

5. Better tonality and richness, more headroom for postprocessing (ability to save in 16 bits/channel = 48 bits vs. 24)

6. Larger gamut, Color Management control (from Raw to ProPhotoRGB, for example, instead of sticking in sRGB or AdobeRGB)

Bye!

Fernando
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AnandaSim Forum Pro • Posts: 13,422
Re: Thanks! Replies...

One more.

All the JPEG are lossy compressed. Only TIFF and RAW are non loss format. Meaning if you save to JPEG Fine - and you want to adjust colour / contrast, crop whatever, and then you save again, you already have 2 generations of loss of quality - like copying a video tape.

If you use the camera to save TIFF or RAW, then you can open the file, edit and resave as many times as you want without losing quality.

Some cameras can save TIFF but TIFF is much larger than RAW and has less information than RAW.
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AnandaSim Forum Pro • Posts: 13,422
Re: P880 raw samples please?

Please, can you leave the file there for another day?

I am trying to get the Mediachance people to incorporate the KDC into their software

http://www.mediachance.com/pbrush/index.html

Many thanks

Ananda

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Pavel Kudrys Senior Member • Posts: 2,694
Re: P880 raw samples please?

The upcoming version of PhotoBrush will be able to read the Kodak RAW files From our currently available products, these two can already read the Kodak KDC files:

DCE AutoEnhance
and
PureImage NR

AnandaSim wrote:

Please, can you leave the file there for another day?

I am trying to get the Mediachance people to incorporate the KDC
into their software

http://www.mediachance.com/pbrush/index.html

Many thanks

Ananda

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thedoyman Regular Member • Posts: 313
thanks a lot

Great info. I will start shooting RAW asap!
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OP Fer Senior Member • Posts: 2,434
RawTherapee v. SilkyPix

I did some comparisons between SilkyPix 2.0.2 and Raw Therapee 1.1-pre1.

In order for Raw Therapee to decode the P880 raw file, I had to convert it in DNG first (I used Adobe Lightroom Beta3 for that).

I somehow aligned the WB between the two conversions, and applied USM to both, same amount.

First crops comparison:

Raw Therapee gave a sharper result, but, do you see the jaggies along diagonal lines?

Let's see another region of the image:

Again, there are some more high-frequency details in R.T. conversion. Since shadows are more open too, I decided to align the conversion from SilkyPix, by applying some Shadow/Highlights within Photoshop (Shadow = 20%, Highlights = 0%).
I also applied another pass of USM to the upper image.

Here the crops are much more similar. I still see some more hi-freq details in Raw Therapee, but also more noise/artifacts in uniform areas.

Let's see if this is true examining the sky:

I'd say, yes, confirmed... more high-frequency details along with more digital noise/artifacts in the output from Raw Therapee.

This is quite aligned with what we've seen yesterday from Vuescan, which uses DCRaw engine to perform the demosaicing pass: DCRaw is based, too, on the "Adaptive Homogeneity-directed Demosaicing Algorythm", as is Raw Therapee (sure there will be differences in how the two authors implemented the base algorythm, but outputs share many common traits).

Fernando
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reway Veteran Member • Posts: 6,406
Re: RawTherapee v. SilkyPix

still like the SilkyPix best, but Gabor did a fine job
working on his own in creating Raw Therapee
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