Changing from 300d to 20d/30d Please advise

Started Feb 23, 2006 | Discussions
mysticmagic New Member • Posts: 15
Changing from 300d to 20d/30d Please advise

Hi,

Thais is my first post, so please be gentle.

First of all id like to appologise for another 30d thread.

Im looking to sell my 300d and at the moment someones offered me money i cant turn down for it.

I've been waiting with baited breath for the 30d only to be a little let down that its not the D200 killer many excpected it to be. Id have loved 10MP to shut people up more than anything lol.

Right. Enough chat.

Basically i love my 300d.. but if i had to say what i wanted to change about it, number one on the list would be speed. From simple startup times to lack of buffer for 'running man mode'

Im pretty sure, despite my lack of funds im going to take the offer for my 300d and run with it.

What i wish to know is why do i want a 30d? Id love a 30d.. its new, its shiney, its the 'replacement' but other than a marginal better buffer i cant honestly see much that benefits me right now. Price wise, ok its suposed to be cheaper than the 20d.. but compared to prices i see the 20d for its just not. Obviously down to stock clear outs.

At the moment im seeing 30ds for £1150 and a 20d for £789. With what i presume is the same 18-55 lens (or similer).

Now, even in my crazy head (i went to by either a 3200+ or 3500+ Athlon 64 and ended up with a FX-55 lol) i cant see £300 difference.

If we were talking £100 id just bite.. but £300? I dont think im that insane these days.

Im after logical rational reasons for and against. To me money saved buys me at some point a new longer lens (I only got a 480ex for the 300D).

If i could find a 20d for around £900(ish) with the sexy 17-85 lens i think that would be a clincher. As a little more length would be nice.

SO.. basically.. thoughts/advice/opinions would be great.

Sorry for a long rambling first post!

Thanks in advance

vineas New Member • Posts: 14
Re: Changing from 300d to 20d/30d Please advise

I'm in the same boat, upgrading from 300D, and the diff between the two is definitely making the 30D look better - spot metering alone does it for me, though picture styles is interesting as well.

I was hoping for more, in this release, but oh well. I need a camera, and the 30D will be it.

ssab Senior Member • Posts: 1,893
Re: Changing from 300d to 20d/30d Please advise

20D plus 17-85 still seems to be stuck around £1150. Haven't seen an actual price for the 30D combo, just the retail which is over £1500. So unless there is a pretty big discount on the 30D before they run out of 20D it doesn't seem too likely to me that the 20D will drop that much more.

Gnarl Regular Member • Posts: 142
Get the 30D

that's what I'd do if I were in your position. It's about $100 more than the 20D, and the spot metering, big LCD, 1/3 stop ISO adjustment, quieter shutter, and faster buffer are more than worth the price differential.

ssab Senior Member • Posts: 1,893
Re: Get the 30D

Gnarl wrote:

that's what I'd do if I were in your position. It's about $100
more than the 20D, and the spot metering, big LCD, 1/3 stop ISO
adjustment, quieter shutter, and faster buffer are more than worth
the price differential.

Unfortunately the price difference isn't $100 in the UK. It's a bit early yet as not all the discount places have prices posted but atm the cheapest price for the 30D is around £1000, the 20D you can get for £750. So here the diff is £250 which is around $435.

Chen_George Regular Member • Posts: 100
Price difference bigger about $300

Yeah, if the price difference was only $100, I'd get the 30D. However, Amazon is already selling the 20D for $1,130, which is $270 lower than what the 30D will be selling at. So, I think the price differential at release will be at least $300.

OP mysticmagic New Member • Posts: 15
Re: Get the 30D

Thats exactly right, i can get a 20d for £780 ish with the 17-55 or £1000 with the 17-85.

The 30d will be what, £1100+ with the 17-55? £300 odd more than a 20d with out £300 of extras..

Surely im better off with a 20d and a 17-85 lens? and how good IS that len?

ssab wrote:

Gnarl wrote:

that's what I'd do if I were in your position. It's about $100
more than the 20D, and the spot metering, big LCD, 1/3 stop ISO
adjustment, quieter shutter, and faster buffer are more than worth
the price differential.

Unfortunately the price difference isn't $100 in the UK. It's a bit
early yet as not all the discount places have prices posted but atm
the cheapest price for the 30D is around £1000, the 20D you can get
for £750. So here the diff is £250 which is around $435.

Erik Magnuson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,247
Re: Changing from 300d to 20d/30d Please advise

mysticmagic wrote:

From simple startup times to lack of buffer for 'running man mode'

If you are not a raw shooter (and you have to install one of the hacks to get raw in 'running man mode' on the 300D), then 23 shots may be enough.

Price wise, ok its suposed to be cheaper than the 20d..

It's cheaper than the 20D was when the 20D was the new shiny. Now that the 20D isn't quite so shiny, it's also cheaper. By Christmas the 30D may hit the current 20D price levels or lower.

i cant see £300 difference.

The 20D is still a great camera (as the D200 review shows). The main feature that will push me to the 30D is those few extra RAW buffer slots (and perhaps the slower continuous mode setting.) I can see hitting the 6 shot limit (particuarly at 5FPS) while the 11 shot limit seems less likely.

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Erik

Timmie Regular Member • Posts: 170
Re: Changing from 300d to 20d/30d Please advise

I'm would wait for the actual street prices to come through, lowest I've seen here for a 20D is € 1150 and the lowest I've seen for a 30D is € 1199 and the retailer with that price is very definite about the price being right. So the difference might be a bit less than you expect.

Of course the 20D might still come down a bit once the 30D is actually for sale.

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bluebike Junior Member • Posts: 38
20D vs 30D -- a $673 savings!

Surely im better off with a 20d and a 17-85 lens? and how good IS
that len?

I think that is right and I am in a similar position and I am getting the discounted 20D. Why? It seems that in Canada we subsidize the U.S. market. That's right . . . Canadian photographers subsidize U.S. buyers (There, I said it for the second time today!). Sorry for griping but $2000 for a 30D is a bit ridiculous when the 20D is so much cheaper here, and then you get get a kick-a** lens with the savings.

Canon is charging $2000 (body only) for the 30D and my local store is giving me a discounted 20D for $1415 -- that's a $585 difference, not including the 15% tax, which makes the difference $672.75! I am not crazy. This is the deal in Canada. All this while the Canadian Dollar is kicking the USD's butt -- Go figure!

Also, spot meter? Please! It is not the cure all. You still should bracket just as you always have with film!

P.S. At least we get free healthcare.

OP mysticmagic New Member • Posts: 15
Re: Changing from 300d to 20d/30d Please advise

If i could get a 30d for £1000 with the 17-85 i would.. but i dont see it some how.

Timmie wrote:

I'm would wait for the actual street prices to come through, lowest
I've seen here for a 20D is € 1150 and the lowest I've seen for a
30D is € 1199 and the retailer with that price is very definite
about the price being right. So the difference might be a bit less
than you expect.

Of course the 20D might still come down a bit once the 30D is
actually for sale.

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CanonKen Senior Member • Posts: 2,854
I have the 300D right now...

...and have been waiting for the 30D. It is here, few things let me down (8 MP still), but the fact it has a SPOT METER!!!, larger screen, big buffer, etc. sold me.

If I were you, I would just bite the bullet and get the 30D, and then wait a few years before you even think about upgrading.

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bluebike Junior Member • Posts: 38
Spot meter?

Would somebody please explain why the spot meter is so damn imortant? Just because you use the spot meter does not mean you are getting the correct exposure. Bracketing still is vital in my opinion and then you can assess the quality of your photo when you get back to your digital lab. I can understand why you would want it and the larger LCD for $100, but anywhere outside of the U.S. it seems, we are talking about hundreds of extra dollars for something that is not a magic bullet for taking a good photo.

Thanks for any input!

alekas Senior Member • Posts: 1,745
Re: Spot meter?

You are not always can use bracketing - for example sports - you have only one moment to take a pic and with spot meter it's much easier in a difficult lighting conditions. IMHO

Alex

bluebike wrote:

Would somebody please explain why the spot meter is so damn
imortant? Just because you use the spot meter does not mean you are
getting the correct exposure. Bracketing still is vital in my
opinion and then you can assess the quality of your photo when you
get back to your digital lab. I can understand why you would want
it and the larger LCD for $100, but anywhere outside of the U.S. it
seems, we are talking about hundreds of extra dollars for something
that is not a magic bullet for taking a good photo.

Thanks for any input!

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bluebike Junior Member • Posts: 38
Re: Spot meter?

Thanks Alex. I can understand that for someone seriously into sports photography, or say, a birder, but even with the former, after several shots you will know the kinds of exposures you need.

For example, say you are at a hockey game. After a few shots, it seems that one would have the experience of knowing the proper exposure. Maybe for someone learning photography for the first time it would be more important, but for someone who is relatively skilled, or again maybe for the birder, I still don't really understand the big deal.

if you are

alekas wrote:

You are not always can use bracketing - for example sports - you
have only one moment to take a pic and with spot meter it's much
easier in a difficult lighting conditions. IMHO

Boo Veteran Member • Posts: 6,390
For shots like this . . . [P]

bluebike wrote:

Would somebody please explain why the spot meter is so damn
imortant? Just because you use the spot meter does not mean you are
getting the correct exposure.

Because at the moment, the partial meter (9%) on the 300D and 20D is too large an area for some situations. I would love the 3.5% area of the 30D - for shots like this below - I do a lot of live music work and very often the stage area is painted matt black and the performers are highlighted under spotlights. Any form of evaluative metering takes into account the black surroundings and over-exposes and you really want a meter reading from the performers face only - and for a wider shot like this - 9% is bigger than someone's head.

At this gig, the first one I did with the 20D, I found the 9% partial metering to be too large on wide shots and had to dial in .6 stops -EC to get it how I wanted it - 3.5% spot metering would work fabulously in this situation - and for much of the rest of the work I like to do - I like to meter from where in the scene I want.

Bracketing still is vital in my
opinion and then you can assess the quality of your photo when you
get back to your digital lab.

For a landscape scene or studio set up that's going nowhere that might work best, but for sports or event photography, we just don't have that luxury - the performers just don't wait for me to take meter readings and bracket shots.

I can understand why you would want
it and the larger LCD for $100, but anywhere outside of the U.S. it
seems, we are talking about hundreds of extra dollars for something
that is not a magic bullet for taking a good photo.

If Canon said to me tomorrow that I could pay to have spot metering and 1/3 stop ISO increments as an optional extra added to my 20D, I'd pay for it. I have no intention of changing my month old 20D and I don't regret not waiting to see the 30D spec, I made the right decision, but spot metering is an option I'd choose over more MP or other features other people would crave. It depends purely on your shooting needs and requirements. Spot metering and 1/3 stop ISO increments would really appeal to me, as would being able to change ISO from the VF without looking away.

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bluebike Junior Member • Posts: 38
THANKS Boo!

Boo - That is the best explanation I've seen yet for the spot meter. I really appreciate the time you took there and your photos are great. I am still having a difficult time spending the extra cash for the 30D when the 20D is so much cheaper in Canada. I think for my needs the 20D will be just fine. As you already know, it is a great camera that seems to be getting bashed around here lately.

Thanks again!

Len_Gee
Len_Gee Veteran Member • Posts: 9,686
Re: Spot meter? Zone System?

bluebike wrote:

Would somebody please explain why the spot meter is so damn
imortant? Just because you use the spot meter does not mean you are
getting the correct exposure. Bracketing still is vital in my
opinion and then you can assess the quality of your photo when you
get back to your digital lab. I can understand why you would want
it and the larger LCD for $100, but anywhere outside of the U.S. it
seems, we are talking about hundreds of extra dollars for something
that is not a magic bullet for taking a good photo.

Thanks for any input!

Is the zone system useful in digital capture?

Just curious.

Thanks.

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OP mysticmagic New Member • Posts: 15
Cheapest UK 20d + 17-85

£1079 from some dude off ebay hmmmm

About £60 more from a 'shop'

Anyone else?

vineas New Member • Posts: 14
Re: Spot meter?

bluebike wrote:

For example, say you are at a hockey game. After a few shots, it
seems that one would have the experience of knowing the proper
exposure. Maybe for someone learning photography for the first time
it would be more important, but for someone who is relatively
skilled, or again maybe for the birder, I still don't really
understand the big deal.

Not all sports shooters are sitting static in the bleachers! It's not always a matter of figuring out the exposure after a few shots if the lighting changes as you move around a field - the indoor sports I do have absolutely horrible and inconsistant lighting - spot metering will be a god send.

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