Which Macro for Dentistry?

Started Nov 22, 2005 | Discussions
BobFromNY Contributing Member • Posts: 915
Which Macro for Dentistry?

My dentist has a D70 and is looking for a lens to photograph his patients teeth. He wants to be able to fill the frame with one tooth. I love my 60mm f/2.8 Nikkor, but I imagine that he would need a longer length to work a comfortable distance from his patients. Would a 105 do it or does he need to go longer? Doesn't have to be a Nikkor. Any dentists out there? Thanks, Bob

yegster Contributing Member • Posts: 508
Re: Which Macro for Dentistry?

the 200 f4 nikkor is suppsoed to be amazing. it would give you good range. also, the nikkor 70-180 micro would work too.

R Laing Veteran Member • Posts: 3,116
Working distance...

..60mm would put him in the way of his own light. Nikon105mm might work but lighting is going to be as much of an issue as lens. He might want a ring light or that new macro set up Nikon just came out with.

miatagal96 Regular Member • Posts: 282
Re: Which Macro for Dentistry?

I have the 60mm Micro and I wouldn't be able to get a single tooth to fill the photo. The 60mm is a 1:1 lens. I think the 105 is also a 1:1 lens, so you wouldn't be able to get a whole tooth to fill the frame with that either. If your dentist wants to be able to fill a full frame with a tooth, I think he'll also need to buy extension tubes and/or magnifying filters for the front of the lens. I haven't done this yet, but I plan on getting some.

That said, with extension tubes and magnifying filters, you are able to get closer to your subject to get better thatn 1:1 magnification. So, he might want to get a longer focal length than 60mm. Also, I would be concerned with depth-of-field. The more the magnification, the lower the depth-of-field. With the set-up I described, I don't know if he'd be able to get a good enough depth-of-field to satisfy his needs.

Sorry all I was able to give you are questions, but I'd hate him to spend a lot of bucks and expect to get something that he doesn't get. I'm very interested to know if someone has a set-up that could do a good job with this problem.

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Pat Beug Regular Member • Posts: 106
Re: Which Macro for Dentistry?

I am a dentist, and I take a ton of photos to help me with diagnosis and case presentations. The set-up I use is a Fuji S2, AF Micro Nikkor 1:2.8 D lens, and Nikon Macro Speedlight SB29. I also have the 70-180 Micro Nikkor, which is a favorite lens of mine, but not for intraoral photography. Too heavy and physically awkward with the flash attached to hand hold and capture well focused images, in my opinion. The 200mm Micro Nikkor is even more overkill, you have to stand too far from the patient to frame their face. Great lens for other macro photography. As another poster mentioned, the 60mm Micro Nikkor puts you too close.

The 105mm lens is compact, light, and the ideal focal length for this purpose. A macro speedlight is absolutely necessary for allowing small aperatures (we often are at f/16-f/27 for depth of field.) If you are using a Nikon body, be sure to get an SB29S, an the older SB29 does not allow you to adjust the flash output down enough to be usable with the Nikon body. Ironic, isn't it, that Nikon's flash works better with the Fuji body(which allows TTL) than with the Nikons , which are used with the "M' settings on the flash.
Hope this helps.
Pat

OP BobFromNY Contributing Member • Posts: 915
Re: Which Macro for Dentistry?

Hmmmm..... I don't get this. I have the 60mm and can fill the frame with a dime. A dime is roughly the size of a tooth. So, really all I'm concerned with is the best lens for the working distance a dentist would be comfortable with. ( Far enough away so that the patients breath doesn't fog the lens I suppose!) Thanks

OP BobFromNY Contributing Member • Posts: 915
Re: Which Macro for Dentistry?

That's what I was thinking. The 70-180 might fit the bill. Thanks.

OP BobFromNY Contributing Member • Posts: 915
Re: Which Macro for Dentistry?

Pat, thank you very much for that informative reply! My doc will be happy. (Maybe he'll go a little easier on me with that drill next time!)

Bob

jolay Regular Member • Posts: 262
Another dentist here...

I use the Sigma 105mm f/2.8 EX DG with the Sigma 140 ring flash. I think this focal length works very well, as I don't need to be sitting in the patient's lap in order to fill the frame with the area of interest. That said, I can't get one tooth to fill the frame, nor would I even want to. The closest I need is about 3 teeth across the frame.

A ring flash is a must for intraorall photography, as the aperture often needs to be around f22, as mentioned by the previous poster.

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Regards,
Joel

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OP BobFromNY Contributing Member • Posts: 915
Thanks Doc! (nt)

no text

joecan Veteran Member • Posts: 3,980
Intraoral???

How you are doing intraoral with a 105 or so?? Plus the flash...?
Or you forgot to mention the use of a mirror....
I guess is still better to use a special intraoral camera (Ultracam or others)

For frontals you can use however almost any good digfital camera. Some are using CP990 or something similar.
Joe
http://joecan.smugmug.com/

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obwilton Regular Member • Posts: 240
105mm is the ticket

Intraoral photography is most often done with a mirror and the two dental suppliers offer full arch or quadrant mirrors. It becomes quite a dance focusing a macro lens on a couple of teeth and keeping the mirror from fogging up, so the quadrant mirror is good to start with.

The best setup (after trying many) that I ended up with was pretty much the same as Pat uses, and Jolay is correct a ring flash is a must even though other dental photo gurus may try to offer simpler solutions. I found that the resolution of a SLR and macro lens far superior to specialized intraoral cameras.

The only thing the 105mm makes difficult is a head shot or full face without a little room to back up in the operatory. Most online camera services, like Calumet, have recommended "dental kits" at various price points (teeth not included).

Jeff Wilton

jolay Regular Member • Posts: 262
Re: Intraoral???

joecan wrote:

How you are doing intraoral with a 105 or so?? Plus the flash...?

Yes, a macro flash attached to the end of the 105 is essential.

Or you forgot to mention the use of a mirror....

I use intraoral mirrors designed for this type of photography. They can be purchased from dental supply companies

I guess is still better to use a special intraoral camera (Ultracam
or others)

Well, a D70 outfitted with a 105 macro lens and a ring flash is "specialized" for this type of photography. There are companies that market "Dental photography kits" that are in essence a DSLR+105+ring flash. This is not to be confused with a chairside intraoral camera that is actually used inside the mouth to show single teeth on a monitor. The D70 and macro lens is used for documentation, case presentations, etc.

For frontals you can use however almost any good digfital camera.
Some are using CP990 or something similar.

Yes. I used to use a CP995 in fact, but the D70 with this setup blows it away! Full face shots are a bit tough with the 105, as you can imagine!

Joe
http://joecan.smugmug.com/

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Regards,
Joel

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antwerp
antwerp Junior Member • Posts: 32
Re: Which Macro for Dentistry?

try to locate an old medical-nikkor. i used one for close to 20 years

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jarek leo
jarek leo Contributing Member • Posts: 967
Re: Which Macro for Dentistry?

Medical-Nikkor 120mm f/4. It has aperture value linked to chosen magnification, it is not meter-coupled (it does not allow tell the camera what aperture is set so you are not losing anything on D70 - the metering is not coupled on any Nikon camera) and has a built-in ring-flash based on GN mehtod (on the lens you select ISO speed - the same as on the camera - magnification, and as I said the aperture is linked to selected magnification, and the ring-flash will give correct exposure). The aperture will be closed to working value by your D70 at the moment of exposure. The lens gives magnifications from 1:11 to 1:1 (2:1 with the supplied close-up lens; there is no infinity focus with this lens) it is IF (works wonderfully), it is extremely sharp and flat-field and is very easy to work with handheld. It is out of production and used to be very expensive but now it can be found at reasonable prices because people prefer regular macro (micro) lenses (they are more versatile).
Regards
Jarek

BobFromNY wrote:

My dentist has a D70 and is looking for a lens to photograph his
patients teeth. He wants to be able to fill the frame with one
tooth. I love my 60mm f/2.8 Nikkor, but I imagine that he would
need a longer length to work a comfortable distance from his
patients. Would a 105 do it or does he need to go longer? Doesn't
have to be a Nikkor. Any dentists out there? Thanks, Bob

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