5D images from India - the best yet

Started Nov 5, 2005 | Discussions
Petteri Sulonen Forum Pro • Posts: 24,585
What, out of sight, out of mind is better?

Seriously, reactions like yours tick me off big-time. The photographer is giving a face to the faceless. Do you really feel it's better that the third-world poor are safely hidden out of sight and out of mind, so you can forget about their existence and go comfortably dreaming on about the next, greatest camera?

There was nothing voyeuristic or exploitative about these pictures. He's connecting with his subjects, and portraying them as human beings, with their individuality and dignity intact. If you can't see that, I pity you .

Petteri
--
My flickr page: [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/primejunta/ ]
Me on photography: [ http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

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p.elias Junior Member • Posts: 33
Re: 5D images from India - the best yet

rodrigo, is it possible to send the links (galleries) of the other photographers that travelled with you?.
great photos , by the way:)
thanks
pedro
http://pedroelias.v27.net

David Lawson Senior Member • Posts: 2,789
I also agree

India is an easy place to exploit poverty. Try this type of photography in the poor areas of most African or South American countries and see what images you come away with.

I have had a lot of experience photographing in India, although mainly in the area of wildlife and conservation, and none of the images I have seen on this portfolio, I admit to not have seen it all, show the beauty, charm or wisdom of this country.

But as they say in that part of the world. "When a thief meets a saint all he sees is pockets"
david

karbert Regular Member • Posts: 144
Re: Not to rain on the parade, but...

Hi,

Being an Indian, and having grown up with constant exposure to the poor, I have become quite oblivious to their plight. There was another poster from Ecuador who said the same thing. Moreover, what the photographs of India taken by most western photographers almost never convey, is the relatively high quality of life that the urban middle class Indian enjoys. I grew up surrounded by poverty, but was never affected by it. I lived in a comfy single family home with a 2-car garage, had 2 great parents, went to the best schools, and hunger was merely an abstract concept used in reference to the plight of poor people! Now, I live in the USA, and the transition to a suburban-starbucks-canon dSLR lifestyle was all too easy for me...and that is true for all my friends and relatives and millions of other Indians.

HOWEVER - photographs like the ones discussed here, move even me! It is easy to see how they would move people from first world countries, but I have been quite jaded by poverty. I think this is where photographs, whether artistic or journalistic in nature or intent, are important. A photograph has the ability to strip away the filters our mind places in front of our eyes, and allows us to see the world for what it is, or better still, what it could be. Artistic ability is important - the photos we are discussing here are brilliantly shot, with a vividness and life I do not see frequently. The use of wide-angle with superb bokeh isolates the subject without the compression that telephotos render, and exaggerates the presence of the subject, i.e the poor person, to great effect. The 3-d feel and brilliant B/W conversion only serve to deepen the impact.

Bottomline - photographs, especially artistically and technically superior ones, are important in raising awareness of not only the plight of poor people, but also in helping the viewer discover his own empathy and compassion. Art should not just move people, it should uplift them, and I think Juan Rodrigo has done so perfectly.
--
'Shoot first, ask questions later' - the novice photographer's philosophy.

karbert Regular Member • Posts: 144
Re: 5D images from India - the best yet

Hi,

Being an Indian, and having grown up with constant exposure to the poor, I have become quite oblivious to their plight. There was another poster from Ecuador who said the same thing. Moreover, what the photographs of India taken by most western photographers almost never convey, is the relatively high quality of life that the urban middle class Indian enjoys. I grew up surrounded by poverty, but was never affected by it. I lived in a comfy single family home with a 2-car garage, had 2 great parents, went to the best schools, and hunger was merely an abstract concept used in reference to the plight of poor people! Now, I live in the USA, and the transition to a suburban-starbucks-canon dSLR lifestyle was all too easy for me...and that is true for all my friends and relatives and millions of other Indians.

HOWEVER - photographs like the ones discussed here, move even me! It is easy to see how they would move people from first world countries, but I have been quite jaded by poverty. I think this is where photographs, whether artistic or journalistic in nature or intent, are important. A photograph has the ability to strip away the filters our mind places in front of our eyes, and allows us to see the world for what it is, or better still, what it could be. Artistic ability is important - the photos we are discussing here are brilliantly shot, with a vividness and life I do not see frequently. The use of wide-angle with superb bokeh isolates the subject without the compression that telephotos render, and exaggerates the presence of the subject, i.e the poor person, to great effect. The 3-d feel and brilliant B/W conversion only serve to deepen the impact.

Bottomline - photographs, especially artistically and technically superior ones, are important in raising awareness of not only the plight of poor people, but also in helping the viewer discover his own empathy and compassion. Art should not just move people, it should uplift them, and I think Juan Rodrigo has done so perfectly.

-- hide signature --

'Shoot first, ask questions later' - the novice photographer's philosophy.

cybercare Regular Member • Posts: 386
Re: What, out of sight, out of mind is better?

Total BS. Why the hell do you need a camera to give food to the needy, or clothes to the clothless? I guess it would ruin your photo opp...

Your pathetic.

Petteri Sulonen Forum Pro • Posts: 24,585
Re: What, out of sight, out of mind is better?

cybercare wrote:

Total BS. Why the hell do you need a camera to give food to the
needy, or clothes to the clothless? I guess it would ruin your
photo opp...

Don't you think a photo could prompt someone to give food to the needy, or clothes to the unclothed... or, even better, do something that the needy can feed and clothe themselves?

If you never see them, how do you even know they exist?

Incidentally, the photographer describes the way he took these elsewhere in the thread. You might find it an interesting read.

Your pathetic.

And you have lousy grammar. Nyah nyah.

Petteri
--
My flickr page: [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/primejunta/ ]
Me on photography: [ http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

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krusadr Senior Member • Posts: 2,988
Tony

Tony Victor wrote:

Mauka wrote:

With the same lens, at the same settings, which crop factor has the
narrower DOF?

Never really cared for it myself.

Back to the 5D DOF issue, and the images posted here, I try to
select the focal length based on the perspective I want. Usually
have a good idea of what picture elements I want to include in the
frame, so thererfore, I then need to decide what the perspective
will be. What background do I want to be seen in the frame as well
as other concerns, i.e. people's noses.

So, to recap, mentally frame the shot, mentally select my
perspective, and hence the focal length, and if I'm using a zoom,
twist the zoom ring, or, if no zoom, replace the lens with the
appropriate FL, and then gently squeeze the shutter release.

So, to circle back, for any given subject
distance/perspective/lens/format, once I have planted my feet and
selected the proper FL for the perspective I want,) FF will provide
less DOF and more blurred background.

Incidentally, did you agree with my response above that the DOF
differences are more than just "inches," and that the degree of
background blur is also important?

Let me know what you mean by default when you ignore my post content.

Focal length does make any difference to perspective whatsoever.

-- hide signature --

'Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.'

Tony Victor Regular Member • Posts: 489
Somewhat sympathetic, for a different reason...

I just looked through all the India samples just now, and I have to admit, I do get a slightly sick feeling seeing them.

Here I am, a serious amatuer, very happy I have purchased a $3300 camera, and I'm hit the face with the abject poverty illustrated in that series. I feel guilty.

Look of the title of the thread. Emphasis on "5D" and "best." Perhaps he should have said "worst."

I guess PJ's risk falling into the same habit. "Hey, I got an excellent pic of that guy setting himself on fire!"

We all know why we're here, to learn and discuss photography, and, in thread specifically, to see what the 5D is capable of. But perhaps we should get in the habit of intorducing these threads in a slightly more serious, reverant way.

Also, a link to a site that one could take action against poverty and hunger might be a good idea.

Petteri Sulonen wrote:

Seriously, reactions like yours tick me off big-time. The
photographer is giving a face to the faceless. Do you really feel
it's better that the third-world poor are safely hidden out of
sight and out of mind, so you can forget about their existence and
go comfortably dreaming on about the next, greatest camera?

There was nothing voyeuristic or exploitative about these
pictures. He's connecting with his subjects, and portraying them as
human beings, with their individuality and dignity intact. If you
can't see that, I pity you .

Petteri
--
My flickr page: [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/primejunta/ ]
Me on photography: [ http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

Tony Victor Regular Member • Posts: 489
Yes, Iknow

krusadr wrote:

Tony Victor wrote:

Mauka wrote:

With the same lens, at the same settings, which crop factor has the
narrower DOF?

Never really cared for it myself.

Back to the 5D DOF issue, and the images posted here, I try to
select the focal length based on the perspective I want. Usually
have a good idea of what picture elements I want to include in the
frame, so thererfore, I then need to decide what the perspective
will be. What background do I want to be seen in the frame as well
as other concerns, i.e. people's noses.

So, to recap, mentally frame the shot, mentally select my
perspective, and hence the focal length, and if I'm using a zoom,
twist the zoom ring, or, if no zoom, replace the lens with the
appropriate FL, and then gently squeeze the shutter release.

So, to circle back, for any given subject
distance/perspective/lens/format, once I have planted my feet and
selected the proper FL for the perspective I want,) FF will provide
less DOF and more blurred background.

Incidentally, did you agree with my response above that the DOF
differences are more than just "inches," and that the degree of
background blur is also important?

Let me know what you mean by default when you ignore my post content.

Focal length does make any difference to perspective whatsoever.

Semantics. If I change the perspective by walking backwards, without changing the focal length, what am I going to do to keep the same subject size in the final image? Crop? I have to use a longer lens. So focal length does have alot to do with changing perspective for a working photographer in a practical sense.

I felt I could take certain liberties here with my language. Now on the 300D forum, well, that would be a different story.

Petteri Sulonen Forum Pro • Posts: 24,585
Note...

Tony Victor wrote:
[snip]

Look of the title of the thread. Emphasis on "5D" and "best."
Perhaps he should have said "worst."

You did notice that the guy starting this thread was not the one who took the pictures?

[snip]

Petteri
--
My flickr page: [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/primejunta/ ]
Me on photography: [ http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

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wrider Senior Member • Posts: 1,442
Re: What, out of sight, out of mind is better?

Petteri Sulonen wrote:

cybercare wrote:

Total BS. Why the hell do you need a camera to give food to the
needy, or clothes to the clothless? I guess it would ruin your
photo opp...

This is very rude. You have no basis for this remark.

Don't you think a photo could prompt someone to give food to the
needy, or clothes to the unclothed... or, even better, do something
that the needy can feed and clothe themselves?

Right on.

If you never see them, how do you even know they exist?

Exactly

Incidentally, the photographer describes the way he took these
elsewhere in the thread. You might find it an interesting read.

That's a lot to ask nowadays, reading that is.

Your pathetic.

And you have lousy grammar. Nyah nyah.

Petteri
--
My flickr page: [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/primejunta/ ]
Me on photography: [ http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

I'm with you Peter,
--
Wendell
http://www.wendellworld.com

harbin88 Contributing Member • Posts: 684
Yeah, I heard that some indians are super rich and so many poor

indians are dieing around them and those rich people don't give it a damn.

It is a shame.

karbert Regular Member • Posts: 144
Re: Yeah, I heard that some indians are super rich and so many poor

Sure, some Indians are super-rich. About 25% of the urban population can be termed "middle class", in the sense they have all the basic necessities of life and have money left over for some luxuries. But do they care about the poor? Well, no more or less than people from developed nations. They may be more blase about the situation, but more because they have learnt to accept the futility in feeling pity, and realize that real solutions require long-term planning and economic growth. How sad does the average American feel for the poor in USA? I have lived in Chicago for 3 years, and I can tell you that the poor African-Americans existing in the ghettos of the south-side there lead no better a life than many of the poor people in India. Yet, I rarely see them even mentioned in the US media or discussed by the general suburban white population here. In fact, it took hurricane Katrina for the average american to go "Gee, I guess New Orleans had a lot of poor people!". It is all too easy to be either sympathetic or self-righteous about the whole issue. The hard part is actually solving the problem.
--
'Shoot first, ask questions later' - the novice photographer's philosophy.

cybercare Regular Member • Posts: 386
Re: What, out of sight, out of mind is better?

What planet are you from that you do not know there are sick and needy among us?

Want to impress me with some photos, show me a pic of someone making their lives better.

Do you think it is above a photographer, AD, or organization to say "Wait, don’t give them any food yet. They have to look at there worse so people can really feel the need to donate."

Foolish to think that anyone that finds those photos appealing would have something useful to say.

cybercare Regular Member • Posts: 386
Re: Somewhat sympathetic, for a different reason...

Tony Victor wrote:

Also, a link to a site that one could take action against poverty
and hunger might be a good idea.

Nah...To many here want to marvel at the superiority of the 5D and their camera equipment to care.

Petteri Sulonen Forum Pro • Posts: 24,585
Re: What, out of sight, out of mind is better?

cybercare wrote:

What planet are you from that you do not know there are sick and
needy among us?

It's very easy to forget them. I hadn't thought of the sick and needy in India for ages before I saw these pictures, and I lived in Nepal for a year once.

Want to impress me with some photos, show me a pic of someone
making their lives better.

Like in Socialist Realism, you mean? Here you go:

Do you think it is above a photographer, AD, or organization to say
"Wait, don’t give them any food yet. They have to look at there
worse so people can really feel the need to donate."

Actually, yes, I do think it's very unlikely you'll find an AD, photog, or organization who would say that. I know (media) people who work in some really nasty spots, and the one thing they have in common is an enormous amount of compassion.

[snip ad-hom]

Petteri
--
My flickr page: [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/primejunta/ ]
Me on photography: [ http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

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Chirebel Contributing Member • Posts: 607
What I would like to know is

what the keeper ratio vs OOF was. Something tells me Juan Manuel Rodrigo could tell us how really accurate the focus on the 5D after shooting with those lenses.

Mark

cybercare Regular Member • Posts: 386
Re: A moment of brief sanity

At the site you wrote:

The only thing wrong with this gallery is the commentary. "Great stuff, the 5D does well in B&W, amazing gallery, WOW!" All true, but aren't you at all ashamed of yourselves? Look at the pictures, folks. These are people, not interesting artifacts with light and shade.

Ashamed is right.

Petteri Sulonen Forum Pro • Posts: 24,585
Huh?

You're confusing me. I haven't been saying anything here that's not consistent with what I said there. Could you please clarify?

Petteri
--
My flickr page: [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/primejunta/ ]
Me on photography: [ http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

 Petteri Sulonen's gear list:Petteri Sulonen's gear list
Fujifilm X100S
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