Reflections on noise

Started Oct 1, 2005 | Discussions
bernardL Junior Member • Posts: 37
Reflections on noise

For a while, the fz30 was pure joy. The camera felt good in my hands, the photos pleasant to my eyes. Then, after some lurking in the forum, I learned the noise was unacceptable, that I should never have bought the camera in the first place. My mind was confused, a picture out of focus, a shallow depth of field...

My mood turned sour and cloudy. There was like another world I hadn't envisionned, a mirror image of my bright days with the camera, suddenly cold and dark, rotten by the noise...

I loved the photos, could I be that wrong? Could my eyes deceive me such? My world was upside down. ..

The words and opinions of some sounded so assured; they declaimed with such certainty: bad, camera, bad! Take it back, I'm not keeping mine. Should I trust what I was reading or my own eyes? Were these words real or just a reflection of some unfulfilled yearning for perfection? A forked tongue?

Then I came to my senses, literally. I just had to look at the big picture:

The original 8mp was shot at 200 ISO in late afternoon (noise reduction on low).

The first four shots in this series are 100% crops of the bottom photo. I only did a levels adjustment on the original. This means no denoising, no sharpening, no color balance.
The bottom shot was resized and sharpened.

Note that I don't even like the photo that much, but it fit my little story; it also shows that the extra megapixels are not just a gimmick and that noise with the fz30 is not the issue some would make it.
Full EXIF below

Cheers
Bernard

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File Name: P1000314.JPG
File Size: 3,778,473 Bytes
File Type: JPEG
Exif Byte Order: Little Endian (Intel)
Manufacturer: Panasonic
Model number: DMC-FZ30
Image orientation: Top, left
Resolution (width): 72 pixels per inch
Resolution (height): 72 pixels per inch
Software used: Ver.1.0
File date and time: 2005:09:23 16:56:31
Y and C positioning: Co-sited
Exposure time: 0.0167 seconds
f number: 5.6
Exposure program: Manual
ISO speed rating: 200
Exif version: 0220
Date time of image: 2005:09:23 16:56:31
Date time digitized: 2005:09:23 16:56:31
Component config: YCbCr
Compression: 4.0 bits per pixel
Exposure bias: 0.0 stops
Maximum lens aperture: f/2.8
Metering mode: Pattern
Light source: unknown
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Lens focal length: 7.4 mm
FlashPix version: 0100
Color space: Standard RGB
Image width: 3264
Image height: 2448
Sensing method: One-chip color area sensor
Scene type: Directly photographed image
Custom rendered: Custom process
Exposure mode: Manual exposure
White balance: Auto white balance
Digital zoom ratio: Digital zoom not used
35mm film focal length: 35 mm
Scene capture type: Standard
Gain control: Low gain up
Contrast: Soft
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal

wymjym Veteran Member • Posts: 5,491
Re: Reflections on noise

thank you, I love a good chuckle
wj
--
Minolta Xg, Panny FZ30, Oly C-770

genece Forum Pro • Posts: 15,421
Re: Reflections on noise

I think you hit the nail on the head.
Look at the Big picture ...look at the whole picture maybe.
--
Gene
From Western PA.
FZ10 ...20 ..and FZ30

Panasonic FZ-10 and FZ 20 and FZ30
B300
T Con 17 --two Tcon 14Bs -- Raynox 2020 pro -- DCR 720
http://imageevent.com/grc6/toshareonnet

Just trying to learn and it's slow going!

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Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ30 Nikon D50 Nikon D7000 Nikon D7100
linuxworks Forum Pro • Posts: 18,937
Re: Reflections on noise

good job

I can identify completely with some of the points. I posted a very cropped pic a few days ago and it was very noisy and pixellated. I was a little annoyed at its quality, myself, until I remembered how cropped it was.

it does help to put things into context.

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bryan, http://www.grateful.net , http://www.flickr.com/photos/linux-works
just one man beneath the sky, just two ears, just two eyes -PF

Samuel Schulenburg Contributing Member • Posts: 734
Great series that makes a point n/t
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Randy Rimland Veteran Member • Posts: 5,310
LOL (nt)
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henkster Senior Member • Posts: 1,501
Well told :) (nt)
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Donde una puerta se cierra, otra se abre

Harveydad Senior Member • Posts: 1,768
Re: Reflections on noise

Most of the noise is not generated by the camera, but by those who write about it. Thanks for a well-made point.

runamonk Forum Member • Posts: 83
Re: Reflections on noise

There is something I've noticed around here that's a little goofy to me. Alot of people here are more worried about everyone approving of their choice in a camera more than they are in the photos they take with the camera.

The camera is just the tool right? Move on from the noise thing -- if the noise is acceptable to you then who cares what others think of it anyhow?

Anyhow, just my 2c, and now back to our previously scheduled programs.
--
Ron Hines - FZ5 - Newbie
http://www.moirai.net

Yves Contributing Member • Posts: 836
Re: Reflections on noise

Well done and well said.

Nightwing Regular Member • Posts: 419
Re: Reflections on noise

Trully picture that are worth 1000 words!

if you want to find fault at all cost you will find fault . But usally in your own heart.

But much more fun to look for the beauty and wonder! And those shots are beauty and wonders! Outstanding.

Harlan Saperstein Veteran Member • Posts: 3,457
Re: Reflections on noise

I'm assuming your first three pictures were purposely made to look lousy to make your support your story?.

If not I may be having a monitor problem with the fz-30 because I have seen only about 20% of the shots looking decent. Perhaps 5% of the images look extremely good.

I have been on this forum regularly for two years now and have used the FZ-1 the FZ-10 and the FZ-15.

Some who have owned others as I have have gotten the FZ-30 and are not having good results.
This is not a cheap jab but there is a disconnect somewhere.
I'm waiting for opinions that may come out over the next several months.
Harlan

wymjym wrote:

thank you, I love a good chuckle
wj
--
Minolta Xg, Panny FZ30, Oly C-770

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aftab
aftab Veteran Member • Posts: 9,494
Re: Reflections on noise

Bernard, you showed us how to make a point clearly with subtle force, without noise and with a lot of poetic fervor. Do you write as well as take excellent photos?
aftab
--
Time is an illusion, so is everything else..

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iliask Senior Member • Posts: 1,206
Re: Reflections on noise

Nice story

If you're printing 4"x 6" you're just fine. For an 8"x 10" print, denoising is unavoidable.

I was silly enough to buy an 11"x17" printer. Denoised pictures at that size aren't sharp and un-denoised (tm just horrible.

The truth though is that ISO 80/100 prints look great.

koo22
koo22 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,281
Re: Reflections on noise

Well, the noise showing in the sky in the third shot down is pretty horrendous. That should never happen in an outdoor shot at... ISO 200? Nice story though. K.
--
Galleries: http://www.koo22images.com/-/koo22images/

damel Forum Member • Posts: 93
Re: Reflections on noise

That's water, with a reflection of the sky. See last picture.
--
ML - FZ30

A Girard
A Girard Veteran Member • Posts: 7,929
Bang on Bernard.

It's the anal people who magnify their images to a ridiculous level and cry, look...look...spots!!!!!! The same people probably measure the thickness of their toilet paper to make sure it's "a real 3ply tissue". You made a good point and I applaud your presentation.

Anne from Gatineau
http://www.pbase.com/annefromgatineau/inbox

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genece Forum Pro • Posts: 15,421
Re: Reflections on noise

If you did need to run NI on all the 11 X 17 prints, which I don't,
Would that be a terrible deal?

iliask wrote:

Nice story

If you're printing 4"x 6" you're just fine. For an 8"x 10" print,
denoising is unavoidable.

I was silly enough to buy an 11"x17" printer. Denoised pictures at
that size aren't sharp and un-denoised (tm just horrible.

The truth though is that ISO 80/100 prints look great.

-- hide signature --

Gene
From Western PA.
FZ10 ...20 ..and FZ30

Panasonic FZ-10 and FZ 20 and FZ30
B300
T Con 17 --two Tcon 14Bs -- Raynox 2020 pro -- DCR 720
http://imageevent.com/grc6/toshareonnet

Just trying to learn and it's slow going!

 genece's gear list:genece's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ30 Nikon D50 Nikon D7000 Nikon D7100
MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 37,044
Re: Reflections on noise
Mr Sanchez Regular Member • Posts: 275
Re: Reflections on noise

well said, but it surely seems the only ones who you're convincing are yourselves. so in the end it's really just one hand clapping.
--
http://photobucket.com/albums/a325/Mr_Sanchez/

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