Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

Started Sep 13, 2005 | Discussions
philzucker
philzucker Veteran Member • Posts: 9,391
Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

As I was a bit miffed that Metz promised an SCA adapter for the Ds for minimum half a year now, I wrote them a mail complaining, and they instantly replied - very friendly in fact.

They stated that they had a delay with the Ds adapter and won't be able to produce it until early 2006.

They also stated that the existing SCA 3702 can be used with the Ds for anything but P-TTL. For using standard TTL with this adapter and the Ds - and here is the interesting part - they stated that you have to choose "2nd curtain synchronisation" on the adapter and (if necessary) on the Metz flash used with it.

I scanned the appropriate part of the SCA 3702's manual to show you how the switch on the SCA 3702 has to be set - on the second symbol, not on the first default one:

Hope this helps some people - I will try soon how the SCA works with this new setting on my Ds.

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Phil

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 6,759
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

And 3701 will work too if using 40MZ-1i/2/3i flashes, but this shoe doesn't fit 54MZ flashes.
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philzucker
OP philzucker Veteran Member • Posts: 9,391
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

Short update: My first few test shots with a Metz 32 MZ-3 indicate that indeed the exposure seems okay with this setting on 2nd curtain.

Here a test shot - no exposure compensation at all applied, Ds with FA50/1.4 and the Metz flash indicated above (bounced from the ceiling), 1/60s, f4.0, ISO 200. It shows my daughter hovering in the evening - as she likes to do ;-):

As I said, no exposure compensation at all, but I admit to some other post work :-))

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Phil

Enrico B. Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

Hi Phil,

Yes, as far as I remember if you don't switch to 2nd courtain mode the flashgun will fire two times, the first being the "right" one: if you look carefully, if your flash has one, the lcd will display the correct exposure message for a very brief while. Then fires a second time, and I did'nt manage to understand how much (and if) this affects exposure. I experienced this whit my 44mz2.

Sorry I can't try it now, but it seems to me that if you use the flash in bounced position this does not happen (but I'm not sure)

Enrico

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Pentax K-7
Enrico L Regular Member • Posts: 492
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

Hi,

That is interesting....

I use also a 32MZ-3, and got great results with my MZ-5n I have only use it a couple of times with my Ds and did not see the big problem with it. I do use it on the default first posistion on the SCA adapter.

but now the interesting thing I do use the 3701 adapter.....

Does anybody know the difference between these two SCA adapters?

I think I will need to test the second curtain thing as well.

thanks for the info!!

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JensR Forum Pro • Posts: 17,971
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

Hi Phil!

That's weird, my old SCA 300 flashes work fine with the 372 adapter (no second curtain) and the 374 (first and second).
Well, anyways thanks for this info, wouldn't have guessed!

Maybe the 3702 is fooled by the preflash? And by setting it to second curtain it ignores the "first" (=pre) flash?

Have you checked whether the flash is working as first or second curtain effectively?

Did you find that flash exposure is ok up to high ISOs, or only for 200/400 as with my SCA 300?

Cheers
Jens

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 6,759
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

I believe both 3701 & 3702 have the same features. Just that 54MZ flashes have smaller footprint so a small adaptor is required. 3701 was designed for 40MZ flashes, but 40MZ flashes also work with 3702.
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Mark Stiebel Regular Member • Posts: 310
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

philzucker wrote:

They also stated that the existing SCA 3702 can be used with the Ds
for anything but P-TTL. For using standard TTL with this adapter
and the Ds - and here is the interesting part - they stated that
you have to choose "2nd curtain synchronisation" on the adapter and
(if necessary) on the Metz flash used with it.

Umm.. I thought it was pretty well-known on this forum that the 3702 worked just fine with the DS? I've certainly been using it with no problems. And I haven't selected rear curtain sync.

Mousehill Veteran Member • Posts: 7,563
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

Thanks for the info Phil,

This is a reply I got from them about half a year ago:

Dear Mike,
currently on a Pentax *istDs only the foot301 (centre contact) can
be
used succesfully with a 40 MZ-2. Other adapters like SCA3701 &
SCA3702
can not be used in TTL, but only in simple auto flash mode with
manual
settings. An adapter SCA372 can be used in TTL on both 645 & *istDs.

Best regards
M e t z - W e r k e GmbH & Co KG
Technical Support

Cheers,
Mike
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Pentax K-1
philzucker
OP philzucker Veteran Member • Posts: 9,391
Flash problems 3702 - ISO setting

Mark Stiebel wrote:

Umm.. I thought it was pretty well-known on this forum that the
3702 worked just fine with the DS? I've certainly been using it
with no problems. And I haven't selected rear curtain sync.

As I gathered from browsing some posts on the 3702 there are problems with the 3702 and the Ds, at least the ISO problem Jens pointed out (which by the way is not solved with rear curtain sync - I made a short test this morning).

I don't know which problems are solved with setting the switch to rear curtain sync - I'll see if I can get more info from Metz on this. If I succeed I'll let you know.

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Phil

philzucker
OP philzucker Veteran Member • Posts: 9,391
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

Most interesting! :-))

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Phil

philzucker
OP philzucker Veteran Member • Posts: 9,391
Follow up info: Why second curtain synchronisation

I had another mail exchange with Metz, and they told me two additional things about the SCA 3702 in conjunction with the Ds:

  • 1st curtain synchronisation can lead to a full discharge of the flash in "certain cases", with 2nd curtain synchronisation this will not happen

  • TTL is indeed only supported with ISO 200 on the Ds.

Don't ask me which cases those "certain cases" are ;-). But since it works without any quirks with the switch on "second curtain" I will use it this way from now on.

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Phil

racehorse in the desert Veteran Member • Posts: 4,103
Metz missed the boat for me

I have waited for Metz to get their act together for about two years. Wanted to use one of their excellent flashes on the D/DS. But, I am going to end up with the new Pentax AF540 for the flash power that I need.
--
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mpixel Veteran Member • Posts: 5,779
Re: Metz missed the boat for me

racehorse in the desert wrote:

I have waited for Metz to get their act together for about two
years. Wanted to use one of their excellent flashes on the D/DS.
But, I am going to end up with the new Pentax AF540 for the flash
power that I need.

Have to agree with that. I would have loved to buy their flashes, especially since they could stay with me if I switched brands but in the end I bought one AF360 followed by two Sigma Super 500 DGs.

If I stay with Pentax I will most likely buy four AF540s and get rid of the two Sigmas.

It's nice to see that Metz are finally providing more support for Pentax but after reading this thread I still don’t know if they will only support the DS to the same level as the D or whether they now plan to include full P-TTL support.

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John Power
Racehorse in the Desert

Useful Links to Past Pentax Forum Threads and some Exceptional
Images are at: http://www.solutns.com/pages/pentaxforum.html

philzucker
OP philzucker Veteran Member • Posts: 9,391
Re: Metz missed the boat for me

mpixel wrote:

It's nice to see that Metz are finally providing more support for
Pentax but after reading this thread I still don’t know if they
will only support the DS to the same level as the D or whether they
now plan to include full P-TTL support.

In their first mail to me they made it pretty clear that the SCA 3702 doesn't support P-TTL - but that the new adapter will.

I sure hope that it will hit the market early in 2006.

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Phil

mpixel Veteran Member • Posts: 5,779
Re: Metz missed the boat for me

philzucker wrote:

mpixel wrote:

It's nice to see that Metz are finally providing more support for
Pentax but after reading this thread I still don’t know if they
will only support the DS to the same level as the D or whether they
now plan to include full P-TTL support.

In their first mail to me they made it pretty clear that the SCA
3702 doesn't support P-TTL - but that the new adapter will.

Excellent.

I sure hope that it will hit the market early in 2006.

Me too. If they market it early enough I may have the opportunity to see what functionality they provide before I have to make a decision.

Thanks for that Phil.

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Phil

Enrico B. Forum Member • Posts: 59
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

Hi everyone
I have some corrections to my previous post:

If not set to 2nd courtain the flash will fire two times even in bounced position, I don't know why I thought so..

the second time the flash fires doesn't seem to influence exposure, even though it fires full power (you can tell it by the noise and by the charging time). Sorry I can't post the two test shots, but they're both perfectly exposed (but only at 200 iso, as you pointed out) Maybe it fires after the shutter has closed.
If set my 44mz2 to 2nd courtain the synchro flash shrinks to 1/100.

Enrico

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Pentax K-7
wll Veteran Member • Posts: 4,821
More Info on Metz SCA adapter for Ds

I contacted Metz also, and they said no P-TTL now but check back for more info the first of the year.

wll

Mark Stiebel Regular Member • Posts: 310
Metz SCA adapter test

This thread has motivated me to do some lightly controlled flash tests. Here are a couple of test pics:

Pentax *istDS
Metz 54MZ-4 with 3702
Australian kit lens Sigma 18-50

I let the camera and flash do all the work - no exposure adjustments or anything by me.

As you can tell from the EXIF, all shots were at ISO200. I did change to 400, and in TTL the flash did register 400, but the EXIF still says 200, and the exposure seemed the same to me.

All but the last four were taken in Av, the last two being M and the previous two being in Tv.

In no instance did I notice that the flash fired twice. After these shots I also tried a few other miscellaneous settings, and still couldn't get a seond flash to fire.

I did notice is that in TTL mode only, with rear-sync turned off, the flash did take a while to ready for the next flash. It could be its taking longer to charge, but since the exposure is correct, it must have discharged the same as with the rear sync on. The other thing is that it starts to beep, then stops, then continues the beep. Strange.

TTL mode, default sync, aimed straight ahead:

TTL mode, rear sync, straight ahead:

TTL mode, default sync, straight ahead:

TTL mode, rear sync, straight ahead:

TTL mode, default sync angled at 45:

TTL mode, rear sync angled at 45:

A mode, default sync, aimed at 45:

A mode, rear sync, aimed at 45:

A mode, default sync, aimed straight ahead (Tv):

A mode, rear sync, aimed straight ahead (Tv):

TTL mode, default sync, ISO400 (M):

TTL mode, rear sync, ISO400 (M):

LimCam Contributing Member • Posts: 775
Re: Info: Metz SCA adapter for Ds

philzucker wrote:

As I was a bit miffed that Metz promised an SCA adapter for the Ds
for minimum half a year now, I wrote them a mail complaining, and
they instantly replied - very friendly in fact.

They stated that they had a delay with the Ds adapter and won't be
able to produce it until early 2006.

They also stated that the existing SCA 3702 can be used with the Ds
for anything but P-TTL. For using standard TTL with this adapter
and the Ds - and here is the interesting part - they stated that
you have to choose "2nd curtain synchronisation" on the adapter and
(if necessary) on the Metz flash used with it.

I scanned the appropriate part of the SCA 3702's manual to show you
how the switch on the SCA 3702 has to be set - on the second
symbol, not on the first default one:

Hope this helps some people - I will try soon how the SCA works
with this new setting on my Ds.

-- hide signature --

Hi

I am aware that the k10D needs P-TTL. I have the Metz 32MZ-3 + SCA3701. Can you or anyone tell me if this particular Metz flash is of any use with the K10D or should I get rid of them? I am not into wireless flash.

LimCam
Brisbane, Australia

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