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300dpi Camera?

Started Mar 8, 2005 | Discussions
tom29 New Member • Posts: 2
300dpi Camera?

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

jwcdds Senior Member • Posts: 1,102
Re: 300dpi Camera?
1

Eh... what benefit(s) do you see/expect from doing this?

My 3264x2448 @ 180 dpi can print nicely at 10.89"x8.16" @ 300 dpi. I guess I'm curious why you think the output dpi in the EXIF matters when I was under the impression it's the actual pixel count that does.

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

-- hide signature --

Canon Pro1

DJMichael Contributing Member • Posts: 696
Confused newb ?

jwcdds wrote:
Eh... what benefit(s) do you see/expect from doing this?

My 3264x2448 @ 180 dpi can print nicely at 10.89"x8.16" @ 300 dpi.
I guess I'm curious why you think the output dpi in the EXIF
matters when I was under the impression it's the actual pixel count
that does.

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

dtjobrien Regular Member • Posts: 144
Re: 300dpi Camera?

For print work, 300dpi is about the standard for good sharp bitmap imagery at 100 %. It would be nice to be able to shoot at this dpi..

jwcdds wrote:
Eh... what benefit(s) do you see/expect from doing this?

My 3264x2448 @ 180 dpi can print nicely at 10.89"x8.16" @ 300 dpi.
I guess I'm curious why you think the output dpi in the EXIF
matters when I was under the impression it's the actual pixel count
that does.

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

Mike Chinnock Senior Member • Posts: 1,663
Cameras do not know what dpi is ....

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

-- hide signature --

... that is a printer term ... it only has meaning when output hight and width are given, with the total pixels avaiable.

Good luck, and ...

Happy Shooting !

Mike Chinnock

jwcdds Senior Member • Posts: 1,102
Re: 300dpi Camera?

That part I knew. But oftentimes, one goes through the software and selects print sizes. The more "knowledgeable amateurs" understand to adjust dpi. The less versed will simply let the software adjust for them. Or stick the memory card into the KIOSK and let the machine handle everything. If one is using a 3rd party publisher/printer, then the dpi of the image can certainly be adjusted during processing.

So whether the image output is 72, 180, 300 dpi, it's really not too important. At least that's how I understood it.

dtjobrien wrote:

For print work, 300dpi is about the standard for good sharp bitmap
imagery at 100 %. It would be nice to be able to shoot at this dpi..

-- hide signature --

Canon Pro1

JWP Senior Member • Posts: 2,752
OMG - Those figures are totaly meaningless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nt
1

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

-- hide signature --

JWP

JWP Senior Member • Posts: 2,752
You are really confused! Shooting DPI does not count. nt
1

dtjobrien wrote:
For print work, 300dpi is about the standard for good sharp bitmap
imagery at 100 %. It would be nice to be able to shoot at this dpi..

jwcdds wrote:
Eh... what benefit(s) do you see/expect from doing this?

My 3264x2448 @ 180 dpi can print nicely at 10.89"x8.16" @ 300 dpi.
I guess I'm curious why you think the output dpi in the EXIF
matters when I was under the impression it's the actual pixel count
that does.

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

-- hide signature --

JWP

mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 60,058
Re: 300dpi Camera?
1

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

tom29:

You have gotten a lot of responses regarding how inappropriate your question is but here is a simple explanation of the situation.

Insofar as the resolution of the camera is concerned, all that matters is the number of pixels (dots, if you will) across and the number of pixels down. Your printing software will distribute those pixels across and down to create an image of the particular size you set. Of course, the larger the image, the less dots per inch (dpi) you will have. (Imagine a window screen that you can squeeze and stretch and how the size of the openings get smaller as you squeeze).

I hope this simple explanation is clear.

To answer your question, virtually all Canon cameras can now produce 300 dpi output images. The 8 megapixel Pro1 with 3264 x 2448 pixels can produce an 10" x 8" image with 300 dpi. 300 dpi images for most other Canon digicams would have to be smaller.

-- hide signature --

mamallama

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JWP Senior Member • Posts: 2,752
Here is an explanation........
1

http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/und_resolution.shtml

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

-- hide signature --

JWP

imbsysop Veteran Member • Posts: 4,963
Re: 300dpi Camera?

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

Cameras have NO dpi, NEVER ... the figure that manufacturer do bake into their Firmware are meaningless at the level of the picture and as long as the value is not used for printing ...

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Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H5 Sony RX100 II Canon EOS 400D Sony a6000 Sony a7 II +8 more
imbsysop Veteran Member • Posts: 4,963
Re: 300dpi Camera?

mamallama wrote:

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

tom29:

You have gotten a lot of responses regarding how inappropriate your
question is but here is a simple explanation of the situation.

Insofar as the resolution of the camera is concerned, all that
matters is the number of pixels (dots, if you will) across and the
number of pixels down. Your printing software will distribute those
pixels across and down to create an image of the particular size
you set. Of course, the larger the image, the less dots per inch
(dpi) you will have. (Imagine a window screen that you can squeeze
and stretch and how the size of the openings get smaller as you
squeeze).

I hope this simple explanation is clear.

To answer your question, virtually all Canon cameras can now
produce 300 dpi output images. The 8 megapixel Pro1 with 3264 x
2448 pixels can produce an 10" x 8" image with 300 dpi. 300 dpi
images for most other Canon digicams would have to be smaller.

although yr explanation is absolutely correct you are obscuring it again by putting out that last paragraph .. Cameras NEVER put out a "DPI" image they output an XbyY pixelmap (the dpi value given is useless) .. The dpi is a user applied & choosen pixel density for printing AND the exact connotation is PPI (pixels per inch). The DPI definition is purely printer based aka a 300PPI choice to define print size & printed on a printer at 300 DPI will yield an absolutely lousy print ...
Even the Adobe people do not seem to get this "nuance" ...
FWIW

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mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 60,058
Re: 300dpi Camera?

imbsysop wrote:

mamallama wrote:

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

tom29:

You have gotten a lot of responses regarding how inappropriate your
question is but here is a simple explanation of the situation.

Insofar as the resolution of the camera is concerned, all that
matters is the number of pixels (dots, if you will) across and the
number of pixels down. Your printing software will distribute those
pixels across and down to create an image of the particular size
you set. Of course, the larger the image, the less dots per inch
(dpi) you will have. (Imagine a window screen that you can squeeze
and stretch and how the size of the openings get smaller as you
squeeze).

I hope this simple explanation is clear.

To answer your question, virtually all Canon cameras can now
produce 300 dpi output images. The 8 megapixel Pro1 with 3264 x
2448 pixels can produce an 10" x 8" image with 300 dpi. 300 dpi
images for most other Canon digicams would have to be smaller.

although yr explanation is absolutely correct you are obscuring it
again by putting out that last paragraph .. Cameras NEVER put
out a "DPI" image they output an XbyY pixelmap (the dpi value given
is useless) .. The dpi is a user applied & choosen pixel density
for printing AND the exact connotation is PPI (pixels per inch).
The DPI definition is purely printer based aka a 300PPI choice to
define print size & printed on a printer at 300 DPI will yield an
absolutely lousy print ...
Even the Adobe people do not seem to get this "nuance" ...
FWIW

imbsyop:

You are semantically correct. In my effort to simplify the explanation I did cloud the issue somewhat. A more careful description should read:

To answer your question, tom29, virtually all Canon cameras can now

produce image files that will print 300 dpi images. The 8 megapixel Pro1 can produce a 3264 x 2448 pixel image file from which a 10" x 8" image with 300 dpi can be printed. The 300 dpi images made using the files produced by Canon digicams with less megapixels would have to be smaller.

With all of our explanations, I hope tom29 isn't more confused.

-- hide signature --

mamallama

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Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 +1 more
imbsysop Veteran Member • Posts: 4,963
Re: 300dpi Camera?

mamallama wrote:

imbsysop wrote:

mamallama wrote:

tom29 wrote:

Does anyone know if or when Canon will be coming out with a digital
camera that finally outputs at 300dpi instead of 180dpi?

tom29:

You have gotten a lot of responses regarding how inappropriate your
question is but here is a simple explanation of the situation.

Insofar as the resolution of the camera is concerned, all that
matters is the number of pixels (dots, if you will) across and the
number of pixels down. Your printing software will distribute those
pixels across and down to create an image of the particular size
you set. Of course, the larger the image, the less dots per inch
(dpi) you will have. (Imagine a window screen that you can squeeze
and stretch and how the size of the openings get smaller as you
squeeze).

I hope this simple explanation is clear.

To answer your question, virtually all Canon cameras can now
produce 300 dpi output images. The 8 megapixel Pro1 with 3264 x
2448 pixels can produce an 10" x 8" image with 300 dpi. 300 dpi
images for most other Canon digicams would have to be smaller.

although yr explanation is absolutely correct you are obscuring it
again by putting out that last paragraph .. Cameras NEVER put
out a "DPI" image they output an XbyY pixelmap (the dpi value given
is useless) .. The dpi is a user applied & choosen pixel density
for printing AND the exact connotation is PPI (pixels per inch).
The DPI definition is purely printer based aka a 300PPI choice to
define print size & printed on a printer at 300 DPI will yield an
absolutely lousy print ...
Even the Adobe people do not seem to get this "nuance" ...
FWIW

imbsyop:

You are semantically correct. In my effort to simplify the
explanation I did cloud the issue somewhat. A more careful
description should read:

To answer your question, tom29, virtually all Canon cameras can now
produce image files that will print 300 dpi images. The 8 megapixel
Pro1 can produce a 3264 x 2448 pixel image file from which a 10" x
8" image with 300 dpi can be printed. The 300 dpi images made using
the files produced by Canon digicams with less megapixels would
have to be smaller.

With all of our explanations, I hope tom29 isn't more confused.

I hope not

The problem is, that although a lot of people consider it to be only "semantics", people not wanting to stick to the correct definitions. It could avoid all the mixup The presumed pixelcount for printsize calculations should refered to as PPI while the printing resolution remains at DPI ... This way it will never cause discrepancies ..

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takeo Forum Member • Posts: 97
Re: 300dpi Camera?

The 8 megapixel
Pro1 can produce a 3264 x 2448 pixel image file from which a 10" x
8" image with 300 dpi can be printed.

So perhaps the use of 180dpi by Canon (and others?) in the EXIF data, arbitrary as it is, is mostly a marketing thing? If they tag all the images as 180 DPI (or PPI to be more correct), then they can claim that a camera with a certain number of MP's has enough resolution to print 8x10's... which it does... it's just not quite up to the standard most commonly used in the graphic design and print world. Heck... tag them as 72 ppi and you could say that a 1MP camera can print 8x10's

takeo Forum Member • Posts: 97
Re: 300dpi Camera?

Cameras have NO dpi, NEVER ... the figure that manufacturer do bake
into their Firmware are meaningless at the level of the picture and
as long as the value is not used for printing ...

Yes... it is meaningless except for output (i.e. printing)... which is why I suggested that perhaps the arbirary use of 180 dpi is meerly a marketting gimmick since using 180 dpi to print an image would result in larger output dimensions than using 300 dpi for printing the same image (assuming the number of pixels is constant).

imbsysop Veteran Member • Posts: 4,963
Re: 300dpi Camera?

takeo wrote:

Cameras have NO dpi, NEVER ... the figure that manufacturer do bake
into their Firmware are meaningless at the level of the picture and
as long as the value is not used for printing ...

Yes... it is meaningless except for output (i.e. printing)... which
is why I suggested that perhaps the arbirary use of 180 dpi is
meerly a marketting gimmick since using 180 dpi to print an image
would result in larger output dimensions than using 300 dpi for
printing the same image (assuming the number of pixels is constant).

unfortunately 180 PPI is a bit low to produce good (photo)quality prints ... but it is a funny concept as old versions of Adobe Photoshop used a default value of 72DPI ( yes they erroneously called it DPI)
so maybe camera manufacturers should just leave it out alltogether ..

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Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H5 Sony RX100 II Canon EOS 400D Sony a6000 Sony a7 II +8 more
JWP Senior Member • Posts: 2,752
If it's not DPI - what is it then? (re:Adobe) nt

imbsysop wrote:

takeo wrote:

Cameras have NO dpi, NEVER ... the figure that manufacturer do bake
into their Firmware are meaningless at the level of the picture and
as long as the value is not used for printing ...

Yes... it is meaningless except for output (i.e. printing)... which
is why I suggested that perhaps the arbirary use of 180 dpi is
meerly a marketting gimmick since using 180 dpi to print an image
would result in larger output dimensions than using 300 dpi for
printing the same image (assuming the number of pixels is constant).

unfortunately 180 PPI is a bit low to produce good (photo)quality
prints ... but it is a funny concept as old versions of Adobe
Photoshop used a default value of 72DPI ( yes they erroneously
called it DPI)
so maybe camera manufacturers should just leave it out alltogether
..

-- hide signature --

JWP

imbsysop Veteran Member • Posts: 4,963
read the thread ? ... Re: If it's not DPI - what is it then? (re:Adobe) nt

JWP wrote:

imbsysop wrote:

unfortunately 180 PPI

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takeo Forum Member • Posts: 97
Re: read the thread ? ... Re: If it's not DPI - what is it then? (re:Adobe) nt

That thread is a good pointer, but for me at least, I know what dpi/ppi is... I'm a graphic designer. My question is, why does Canon choose to tag their images at 180? There must be some reason they chose that. Not that it matters I guess... it's just curious.

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