Dimage Master experiences - anyone?

[Geir Ove]

Hello,

I know Diamge Master has been discussed before: But ample time has passed and users may have gained more experience, and software may have improved?

Please, give me feedback on

a) RAW converter - compared to ACR, C1
b) Workfflow experience
c) General good / bad

Any place to download a demo?

Geir Ove
--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

 

[Geir Ove]

see review of 7D and Dimage Master at:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/minolta/maxxum_7d-review/index.shtml

search for the text:

"As you can see, DiMAGE Master will destroy your front lawn"

Did he have NOISE Reduction turned high in Dimage Master, or is the software that bad?

(C1 has noise reduction that I turned of, but it did not do any wrong at least at ISO 100)

Geir Ove

 

[brettania]

Geir

I too am interested but it seems not enough are using Master to be in a position to respond. Also I see not evidence that KM is offering it on a trial basis.
brettania

Hello,

I know Diamge Master has been discussed before: But ample time has
passed and users may have gained more experience, and software may
have improved?

Please, give me feedback on

a) RAW converter - compared to ACR, C1
b) Workfflow experience
c) General good / bad

Any place to download a demo?

Geir Ove
--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

 

[KEITH-C]

Geir
I too am interested but it seems not enough are using Master to be
in a position to respond. Also I see not evidence that KM is
offering it on a trial basis.
brettania

No trial offer says it all !!! Dimage Master was thought up by market men who read the results of the survey which they organised via KMPhotoworld. If you remember they asked questions about software owned & how much you would pay.

They decided to try to take a slice of that market without fully appreciating what was involved. If a trial cannot attract a sufficient number of buyers then it is already dead in the water. Who these days is going to buy sight unseen ?

Minolta loyalists with legacy glass were the main first wave of buyers for the 7D but from now on it's all uphill. Canon will not stand idly by & do nothing.

Keith-C

 

[Geir Ove]

Geir
I too am interested but it seems not enough are using Master to be
in a position to respond. Also I see not evidence that KM is
offering it on a trial basis.
brettania

No trial offer says it all !!! Dimage Master was thought up by
market men who read the results of the survey which they organised
via KMPhotoworld. If you remember they asked questions about
software owned & how much you would pay.

They decided to try to take a slice of that market without fully
appreciating what was involved. If a trial cannot attract a
sufficient number of buyers then it is already dead in the water.
Who these days is going to buy sight unseen ?

Minolta loyalists with legacy glass were the main first wave of
buyers for the 7D but from now on it's all uphill. Canon will not
stand idly by & do nothing.

Keith-C

--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

 

[Geir Ove]

Hello,

I know Diamge Master has been discussed before: But ample time has
passed and users may have gained more experience, and software may
have improved?

Please, give me feedback on

a) RAW converter - compared to ACR, C1
b) Workfflow experience
c) General good / bad

Any place to download a demo?

Geir Ove
--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

 

[andrewD2]

Geir
I too am interested but it seems not enough are using Master to be
in a position to respond. Also I see not evidence that KM is
offering it on a trial basis.
brettania

No trial offer says it all !!! Dimage Master was thought up by
market men who read the results of the survey which they organised
via KMPhotoworld. If you remember they asked questions about
software owned & how much you would pay.

Yeah sure, you can develop a RAW algorithm overnight, you can add some workflow improvement ideas overnight. Yeah software development is so easy. My bet is that they were very happy with the results that it outputs when viewed at a reasonable size. Judginging by the reviews the new algorithm has a few issues. What it if produces excellent colour and you only see these defects if you print larger than 18x12? Its just too early to say. ACR isnt perfect either.

They decided to try to take a slice of that market without fully
appreciating what was involved. If a trial cannot attract a
sufficient number of buyers then it is already dead in the water.
Who these days is going to buy sight unseen ?

Someone read that there would be a trial in Feb.

Minolta loyalists with legacy glass were the main first wave of
buyers for the 7D but from now on it's all uphill. Canon will not
stand idly by & do nothing.

Keith-C

What have canon got to do with anything?

Andrew

 

[Joan Delisse]

At http://www.konicaminoltaeurope.com/products/consumer/dimagemaster/en/ more info. But 199 euro!!!

Greetings http://www.jijfotografie.nl

Hello,

I know Diamge Master has been discussed before: But ample time has
passed and users may have gained more experience, and software may
have improved?

Please, give me feedback on

a) RAW converter - compared to ACR, C1
b) Workfflow experience
c) General good / bad

Any place to download a demo?

Geir Ove
--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

 

[Geir Ove]

http://www.konicaminoltaeurope.com/products/consumer/dimagemaster/en/ more info. But 199 euro!!!

Greetings http://www.jijfotografie.nl

Hello,

I know Diamge Master has been discussed before: But ample time has
passed and users may have gained more experience, and software may
have improved?

Please, give me feedback on

a) RAW converter - compared to ACR, C1
b) Workfflow experience
c) General good / bad

Any place to download a demo?

Geir Ove
--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

 

[Geir Ove]

I am a software developer: A good RAW algorithm is NOT something you spit out overnight: I am eager to see what they eventually end up with, but I think a DEMO version is required ..Not willing to lay down my cash without knowing what I get...

Geir Ove

Geir
I too am interested but it seems not enough are using Master to be
in a position to respond. Also I see not evidence that KM is
offering it on a trial basis.
brettania

No trial offer says it all !!! Dimage Master was thought up by
market men who read the results of the survey which they organised
via KMPhotoworld. If you remember they asked questions about
software owned & how much you would pay.

Yeah sure, you can develop a RAW algorithm overnight, you can add
some workflow improvement ideas overnight. Yeah software
development is so easy. My bet is that they were very happy with
the results that it outputs when viewed at a reasonable size.
Judginging by the reviews the new algorithm has a few issues. What
it if produces excellent colour and you only see these defects if
you print larger than 18x12? Its just too early to say. ACR isnt
perfect either.

They decided to try to take a slice of that market without fully
appreciating what was involved. If a trial cannot attract a
sufficient number of buyers then it is already dead in the water.
Who these days is going to buy sight unseen ?

Someone read that there would be a trial in Feb.

Minolta loyalists with legacy glass were the main first wave of
buyers for the 7D but from now on it's all uphill. Canon will not
stand idly by & do nothing.

Keith-C

What have canon got to do with anything?

Andrew

 

[KEITH-C]

Geir
I too am interested but it seems not enough are using Master to be
in a position to respond. Also I see not evidence that KM is
offering it on a trial basis.
brettania

No trial offer says it all !!! Dimage Master was thought up by
market men who read the results of the survey which they organised
via KMPhotoworld. If you remember they asked questions about
software owned & how much you would pay.

Yeah sure, you can develop a RAW algorithm overnight, you can add
some workflow improvement ideas overnight. Yeah software
development is so easy. My bet is that they were very happy with
the results that it outputs when viewed at a reasonable size.
Judging by the reviews the new algorithm has a few issues. What
it if produces excellent colour and you only see these defects if
you print larger than 18x12? Its just too early to say. ACR isnt
perfect either.

You don't have to develop an algorithm overnight - it is probable that someone else developed the software essentials some time ago. Software development isn't that easy as KM have shown - it a great pity that other are seemingly better !

They decided to try to take a slice of that market without fully
appreciating what was involved. If a trial cannot attract a
sufficient number of buyers then it is already dead in the water.
Who these days is going to buy sight unseen ?

Someone read that there would be a trial in Feb.

Taking a timely decision is possible overnight - why don't they get on with it ?

Minolta loyalists with legacy glass were the main first wave of
buyers for the 7D but from now on it's all uphill. Canon will not
stand idly by & do nothing.

Keith-C

What have Canon got to do with anything?

Canon have a lot to do with it - I Should have spelt it out but I thought that it was too obvious. The 7D was already heading towards obsolescence when it was launched in design terms - practically only AS saved it from being another has been.

Canon will respond with another camera which might well hit it for six. Maybe not overnight but they will not take as long as KM did to produce the 7D . If you remember the 7D was announced before the 20D but which came to the market first?

Keith-C

 

[David Kilpatrick]

Hello,

I know Diamge Master has been discussed before: But ample time has
passed and users may have gained more experience, and software may
have improved?

I have now had two CDs from KM UK both of which have failed to installed on Mac, so a third is on its way to me! Paul at KM UK is insistent I say nothing until I have used the software. He knows that I shoot for Alamy, and use iView for keywording etc, and Adobe CS RAW for conversion. He thinks I'm going to be able to find out more about how Master can benefit users than most reviewers so far. We shall see.

Paul also says that Dimage Transfer is imminent (the Feb 14th date) and there may be some link between the two. Apparently you can't shoot transfer (tethered to PC) shots without a firmware upgrade, so the hint is that if this software is now on the way, a firmware upgrade must be arriving with it. Dimage Master will either function in the same way as Transfer, or works with it, I'm not sure but there is far more to the Master program than just raw conversion.

One thing we are all overlooking is the profiling and colour gamut of the 7D when used with KM software. This was a target set by the Konica-based film colour management team, working with the Minolta-based colour science experts (remember, Minolta was the major player in colorimetry worldwide and KM takes on that mantle). The concept is that if you take an image either JPEG in camera or processing through KM software and have a photo print made it really should be impossible to tell from the tones and colours that this was not a film photograph.

 

[kiklop_2]

One thing we are all overlooking is the profiling and colour gamut
of the 7D when used with KM software. This was a target set by the
Konica-based film colour management team, working with the
Minolta-based colour science experts (remember, Minolta was the
major player in colorimetry worldwide and KM takes on that mantle).
The concept is that if you take an image either JPEG in camera or
processing through KM software and have a photo print made it
really should be impossible to tell from the tones and colours that
this was not a film photograph.

I agree with this. Like I stated in one earlier post http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1035&message=11806947 ) color output may be the only reason why one must consider DM as personal raw converter.

However, I’m still hoping that KM will realise that selling a raw converter at this price without any demo version is not a smart move. Especially when we consider the fact that this is the first version and in some ways first users will be most likely beta users.

--
7D dedicated website http://www.dyxum.com

 

[psn]

I'd open source that software and let others make a better software out of it. This would be a strategy I'd use to compete better against Canon and Nikon. I imagine this would be attractive to new users, particular those coming from the computer world.

Or, at the very least, I'd open the data format specifications. This way, no IP will be compromised and others can create plugins to the more established image manipulation software (think Gimp, GPhoto, and yes even PhotoShop).

Unfortunately, no one in the camera-making world has caught on with this open source idea (close-minded people are running these companies). Yet. AFAIK, all camera makers make crappy software but their users are... well, too "loyal" (replace loyal with your favorite adjective) to see it. Look, PhotoShop's camera raw is already better than anything from Canon, KM, and Nikon. In time, open source programs like dcraw and the GIMP's plugin rawphoto will be better too.

Hello,

I know Diamge Master has been discussed before: But ample time has
passed and users may have gained more experience, and software may
have improved?

Please, give me feedback on

a) RAW converter - compared to ACR, C1
b) Workfflow experience
c) General good / bad

Any place to download a demo?

Geir Ove
--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

 

[Geir Ove]

Hello David,

Thanks for the answer. I realize that Dimage Master is more than RAW conversion, and that it probably (and hopefully) is capable of better color rendering. Howerver, it must also be able to faithfully reproduce fine details.

I hope that the issue of blurred details that I mentioned here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1035&message=12161935

is not an issue any more.

Look forward to your report!

KM: I also look forward to the Demo version

Geir Ove

I have now had two CDs from KM UK both of which have failed to
installed on Mac, so a third is on its way to me! Paul at KM UK is
insistent I say nothing until I have used the software. He knows
that I shoot for Alamy, and use iView for keywording etc, and Adobe
CS RAW for conversion. He thinks I'm going to be able to find out
more about how Master can benefit users than most reviewers so far.
We shall see.

Paul also says that Dimage Transfer is imminent (the Feb 14th date)
and there may be some link between the two. Apparently you can't
shoot transfer (tethered to PC) shots without a firmware upgrade,
so the hint is that if this software is now on the way, a firmware
upgrade must be arriving with it. Dimage Master will either
function in the same way as Transfer, or works with it, I'm not
sure but there is far more to the Master program than just raw
conversion.

One thing we are all overlooking is the profiling and colour gamut
of the 7D when used with KM software. This was a target set by the
Konica-based film colour management team, working with the
Minolta-based colour science experts (remember, Minolta was the
major player in colorimetry worldwide and KM takes on that mantle).
The concept is that if you take an image either JPEG in camera or
processing through KM software and have a photo print made it
really should be impossible to tell from the tones and colours that
this was not a film photograph.

--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

 

[Geir Ove]

psn wrote:
Snip

Unfortunately, no one in the camera-making world has caught on with
this open source idea

Without making this thread into an Open Source debate:

And why not? Open Source may be great, but it's hard to estimate time of delivery of ANY version, not to say bug fixes. That does not work well in the world of FAST turning business (with camera releases ever so often)

Geir Ove

 

[Geir Ove]

and their EXPERIENCE !!

There must be at least ONE Master user in this forum! (??)

Geir Ove

 

[KEITH-C]

and their EXPERIENCE !!

There must be at least ONE Master user in this forum! (??)

There is - have you forgotten - it's Phil !!

But he didn't have to pay for it !

Keith-C

 

[Geir Ove]

Oh, I forgot HIM

Honestly though, I think I have seen another user here sometime: Would be nice to hear how they like it, and how it performs....

Geir Ove

and their EXPERIENCE !!

There must be at least ONE Master user in this forum! (??)

There is - have you forgotten - it's Phil !!

But he didn't have to pay for it !

Keith-C

--
My album at: http://objective.bitfikler.com/geirove/web/

 

[David Kilpatrick]

Finally got a working install CD for Mac, and the program while slow and complex is nothing like the mess indicated in early reports. First of all, it collects all the camera settings, and if you use any sharpness, it applies a Spatial Filter method to create this. This is not identical to the camera method, and not always the best choice, and can produce ragged edges and slightly patterning. But of course, I do not do this - I turn sharpness down to -2 in the camera and this produces no sharpening in Master.

First reactions are that it takes about 50 seconds to process and save each RAW to a final JPEG top quality 8-bit same size. It maybe takes you as long as this using the browser, but the batching feature is brilliant. The actual final image quality is amazingly good, far better than Viewer, but with similar colour, and much crisper than PS CS Raw. I'm seeing a considerably better default image from routine studio work, just in terms of the 'curve'. And this is before doing any special work - this is default handling.

There is no noise reduction option, it does not blerge small detail like lawn grass, and it is moire free. I wish it was four times faster but then a new Mac IS four times faster... there is so much in there I will need days to check it all out. But initial impression is very different from Phil's or some others. What I am seeing from my 24-50mm at f9 under studio flash looks like about as good a straight minimum sharpness image as you can get.

And I now know exactly what my lenses are telling the camera as the EXIF and extended camera data extraction is complete.

One interesting thing - the 7D knows about SUBJECT FOCUS DISTANCE and also about SUBJECT DISTANCE RANGE. Need to see what this means. If it means what I think, I am closer to understanding some of the odd focusing results I have had with an apparently perfectly well calibrated camera.