Dimage G500/G600 action/profile from RAW

Started Dec 29, 2004 | Discussions
aynap New Member • Posts: 24
Dimage G500/G600 action/profile from RAW

I am experimenting with RAW file from dcraw out of my G600. So far, it seems that noise is lower than fine jpeg mode when shooting at night. However, I still could not get the color and tone right after the linear conversion. (I am not that good in digital color balance.)

Anyone have a profile or photoshop action that I can convert to from the dcraw PSD file? I am using -b setting of 4.1 which I found the best extending the histrogram to the right most without blowing the highlight. Any other tips on dealing with G500/600 RAW is appreciated.

BTW, I would like to thank Jim Cockfield and Ove Sentlig and others in this forum who are advocate for this great little camera.

Ove Sentlig Veteran Member • Posts: 4,859
Re: Dimage G500/G600 action/profile from RAW

I gave up trying when the white balance wouldn't be right...
It's not worth the fuzz.

F

aynap wrote:

I am experimenting with RAW file from dcraw out of my G600. So
far, it seems that noise is lower than fine jpeg mode when shooting
at night. However, I still could not get the color and tone right
after the linear conversion. (I am not that good in digital color
balance.)

Anyone have a profile or photoshop action that I can convert to
from the dcraw PSD file? I am using -b setting of 4.1 which I
found the best extending the histrogram to the right most without
blowing the highlight. Any other tips on dealing with G500/600 RAW
is appreciated.

BTW, I would like to thank Jim Cockfield and Ove Sentlig and others
in this forum who are advocate for this great little camera.

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Re: Dimage G500/G600 action/profile from RAW

I spent a considerable amount of time working with RAW from the KD-510z (G500). The main parameter you need to change is gamma (but other parameters also impacted results).

I also spent some time experimenting with some of the internal parameters in the dcraw.c source code (change, compile, test, repeat...).

Unfortunately, I recently upgraded my PC, and the hard disks I've got with my notes are not installed in any machines right this minute (I didn't migrate everything to the new PC).

If I get a chance, I'll try to get another PC up and running sometime in the next day or two with the old drives and let you know what I found worked best.

Based on some of the tests I ran, I'd agree that noise is lower shooting in RAW. But, you do have to spend a lot of time post processing to get acceptable results (contrast, sharpness, etc.). What I found from experimentation is that the Image Processing algorithms in the G500 are very good (so, the usefullness of RAW mode in this model is limited).

-- hide signature --
Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Long couple of days, huh?

Well, I can't find all of my notes on settings. But, using the latest version of dcraw.c, it looks like these parameters seem to work OK as a starting point:

dcraw -w -g 0.45 -b 0.9 pict6647.jpg

(substitute a different filename for the .jpg image, which is the RAW photo).

Then, Post Process using an editor.

In other words, use the dcraw.c gamma setting to decrease contrast for more detail and a brighter photo. Then, post process later (using USM for contrast enhancement and sharpening).

The above settings seem to get color very close to the camera's JPEG Photos with some test shots I did (but you'll need to work on them with an editor to get increase sharpness and reduce haze).

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Rudiko Regular Member • Posts: 476
Does G600 offer RAW?

Hi,

so far I thought that RAW is not available in G600 (according to specifications at:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Konica_Minolta/konicaminolta_dimageg600.asp
Uncompressed format No
Compressed format JPEG (EXIF 2.2)

I have tried also at Steve's Digicam and I didn't find ...

So, is it available or not?

Regards,
Rudi

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SoloC Junior Member • Posts: 37
Re: Does G600 offer RAW?

I think they are talking about Normal Jpeg..... but I was confuse yesterday too. Hm where is the Raw option?

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Yes, it has RAW...

RAW is available under a hidden menu. But, be VERY CAREFUL not to go into any of the Autofocus Calibration Screens. AS soon as you enter one of these menus, the camera will begin an Autofocus Calibration with no further warning.

This will screw up you Autofocus, badly! You have to calibrate the focus under controlled conditions with measurements to test targets, etc. So, I'd very strongly advise that you do not enter any other menus with anything to do with Autofocus.

To shoot RAW, do the following at your own risk:

Press and hold menu button (standard menu will appear in the display)

Press and hold shutter button

(at this point, both the menu button and shutter button are still held down)

Then (while continuing to hold the menu button and shutter button down throughout the sequence below):

2xTELE (press right zoom button twice)
1xWIDE (press left zoom button once)
(a blue information screen appears here)
TRASH (press trashcan icon button once)
PLAY (press upper left button on back of camera)
2xTELE (press right zoom button twice)
1xWIDE (press left zoom button once)

The developer menu will appear (you can release the shutter button and menu button now).

Select "RAW Data Mode". The camera will then shoot in RAW (even though the files have a .JPG Extension) until you power it off. Then, it will go back to normal operation.

Do not attempt to go into the other menus. For example, if you select AF Calibrate, it will immediately begin a calibration of the Autofocus, and it WILL mess it up badly

You will not be able to preview the images in the camera. In this respect, it will be like using film (you can't see what the photos look like until you convert the RAW files into another format later using software).

Likewise, I have not tested it enough to tell if it could damage anything (for example, how the camera may handle it if the media becomes full).

You can use dcraw.c to convert the RAW files directly to 24 bit .PPM files, or 48-bit .PSD files.

http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/

You can get precompiled .exe files for Windows and Mac platforms from here:

http://www.insflug.org/raw/

I'd suggest starting with the following command line argument:

dcraw -w -g 0.45 -b 0.9 pict6647.jpg

(substitute a different filename for pict6447.jpg image). Note that even though the filename ends with .jpg, it's a RAW file. It runs around 10mb on the KD-510z/G500, so it may be a tiny bit larger with the G600.

This setting should be a very good starting point to bring out the most detail. Although it now appears hazy from the settings, you actually have more shadow detail this way.

Then, use USM (Unsharp Mask) for local contrast enhancement to reduce the haze, followed by USM with different settings to sharpen the image.

Remember, no contrast enhancement or sharpening was applied by the camera, so you'll have to perform these steps.

I'd read through the section in the Konica-Minolta FAQ for information on local contrast enhancement using USM (doing this prior to sharpening). You'll need to experiment with settings for best results.

http://www.pbase.com/mtf_foto_studies/mtf_faq#PP2

Should you ever accidently go into the AF Calibration menu and mess up your Autofocus, you may need to setup test targets in broad daylight in order to calibrate somewhat close again. But, please don't go into this menu -- you'll never get perfect.

Just so you'll know how to do it -- from the hidden menus:

Setup your camera on a tripod at 2.54 meters (100 inches) from a test target with lots of light and good contrast.

Scroll down to and select the AF Adjust Menu (Note that as soon as you select it, AF calibration will begin, so MAKE SURE you have everything exactly as it should be before you enter this menu choice).

After the sequence is completed, WAIT until it exits back to the developer menu before powering off the camera (just close the cover at the developer menu).

If any errors appear on the screen while the AF Calibration is being performed, then you will need to recalibrate the camera.

If you are not experiencing severe focus problems, I strongly recommend you don't do this procedure. I'm still experimenting with it myself (my camera focused fine before, but curiousity got the best of me). To be frank, I still don't think I've got it quite as good as it was from the factory -- even after numerous calibrations -- experimenting with different test target distances.

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Rudiko Regular Member • Posts: 476
Re: Yes, it has RAW...

Jim,

Thanks a lot for your extensive reply. You are really an expert for your camera! And, your web site is great as well.

Regards,
Rudi

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SoloC Junior Member • Posts: 37
Re: Yes, it has RAW...

Thx Jim, Now I have it all in one camara. I never throught u guys can actrually know how to go into the developer function ! This is like some hidden cheat code haha. You guys are pros!

Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
I can't take credit...

SoloC wrote:

Thx Jim, Now I have it all in one camara. I never throught u guys
can actrually know how to go into the developer function ! This is
like some hidden cheat code haha. You guys are pros!

Thank other users, like forum member Robics for pointing out this function:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1024&message=7935423

You can also see more about it on this Russian Web Page:

http://myfototest.narod.ru/

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dragra
dragra Senior Member • Posts: 1,141
Re: Yes, it has RAW...

did anyone dig into those other secret menu options? is it documented which functions are usable & which are dangerous for messing up the AF?

1/5

SW TEST MODE
FRONT TEST MODE
AUDIO TEST MODE
FLASH TEST MODE
EEPROM WRITE

2/5

DE FOCUS
AAA DEBUG
RAW DATA MODE
LDP2 RECOVER TEST
AF ADJUST

3/5

EEPROM DEFAULT
EEPROM UI DEFAULT
BATT CHECK MODE
LCD ADJ MODE
IN -> FLASH-ROM

4/5

SCPU RAM
MS DUMP
MS RESTORE
S1 AF ADJ MODE
LENS TEST

5/5

SDRAM TEST
BRACKET FOCUS
MS REPAIR

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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
My advise is don't...

I've messed around with them.

One of the choices will start an AF alignment as soon as you enter the menu, without further warning.

If your camera is not the correct distance from a test target, it will mess up your autofocus so badly you'll be lucky if the camera focuses at all.

That's what happened to me. Only after bringing the camera and test target into bright daylight was I able to get it to complete an alighnment without error and get it focusing right again. But, it's still not quite right for closeups.

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dragra
dragra Senior Member • Posts: 1,141
Re: My advise is don't...

Jim,
thank you for feedback.

I've been through the thread on your website, I know about the danger of messing up the AF. But do you remember WHICH menu point it was, so that this is clear?

I recall a post (from yakuza) about a better battery mode & distance status display during focus. I was wondering if somebody discovered more hidden features & what they do & how to acces them.

I suppose the menu points with 'ADJ' are the dangerous ones, but what about those having said 'MODE'? Some of them are cryptical like 'BRACKET FOCUS' & 'DE FOCUS'

Jim Cockfield wrote:

I've messed around with them.

One of the choices will start an AF alignment as soon as you enter
the menu, without further warning.

If your camera is not the correct distance from a test target, it
will mess up your autofocus so badly you'll be lucky if the
camera focuses at all.

That's what happened to me. Only after bringing the camera and
test target into bright daylight was I able to get it to complete
an alighnment without error and get it focusing right again. But,
it's still not quite right for closeups.

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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Re: Yes, it has RAW...

One of the AF Adjust modes automatically intiates an AF aliignment without further warning, and it has a huge impact on both focus accuracy and speed.

That's probably one reason you see a variation in AF performance between caemeras. The other AF adjust mode (I think that's the S1 AF adjust) does not immediately start an alignment. It's looking for user input.

The problem with any of the adjust modes, is that they assume you're going to make adjustments. So, the only way out of some of them is to power down the camera.

The mode adjustments can leave your camera in bracket focus, etc., (takes more than one photo at different focus points). These are not as dangerous. But, unless you have a legitimate need for them, I'd avoid them.

Ditto for the reset choices. If you mess around with them, you'll probably overwrite any bad pixel mnap in the camera. So, you can end up with stuck pixels in your photos that were not there before (that happened to mine after playing with the menus), without a way to map them back out (probbaly via a menu that lets you write values to EEPROM, only I cant' figure out what to tell it for values).

You can also lose all information about number of photos taken, etc., with one of the reset choices (I've used both of them in the past).

They are dangerous, since we don't know how to use them properly.

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dragra
dragra Senior Member • Posts: 1,141
Re: Yes, it has RAW...

Jim Cockfield wrote:

They are dangerous, since we don't know how to use them properly.

That's exactly why I'm here & re-freshed this thread!

Maybe that russian programmer who revealed the hidden menu reads this & can reveal even more?

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Jim Cockfield Forum Pro • Posts: 16,342
Maybe..

I wouldn't mind having a service manual for sure.

These are nice little cameras. I've yet to find another pocket camera that I'd trade my KD-510z (G500) for.

It's just too flexible. I love the way I can control the mixture of ambient light and flash via use of shutter speeds with it, without any worries from preflash since it uses it's own sensor to measure reflected light (small hole in front of camera).

With fixed focus points, control of shutter speed, etc., it can give great results (except for the redeye part). LOL

JPEG processing is also outstanding IMO.

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dragra
dragra Senior Member • Posts: 1,141
Re: Maybe..

Jim Cockfield wrote:

I wouldn't mind having a service manual for sure.

Yes, that would surely be a thing!

Maybe a unemployed Konica-Minolta tech could trade this? (Hope they are reading.)

These are nice little cameras. I've yet to find another pocket
camera that I'd trade my KD-510z (G500) for.

It's just too flexible. I love the way I can control the mixture
of ambient light and flash via use of shutter speeds with it,
without any worries from preflash since it uses it's own sensor to
measure reflected light (small hole in front of camera).

With fixed focus points, control of shutter speed, etc., it can
give great results (except for the redeye part). LOL

JPEG processing is also outstanding IMO.

-- hide signature --

I was spoiled by Pentax before, they have really fine package, they care very much about each detail of their cameras.

This is like with cellulars, if you used a Nokia once, you'll never be happy later with SonyEricsson, Motorola or whatever...

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dragra
dragra Senior Member • Posts: 1,141
Re: Maybe..
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