Firmware update problem not cover by warrenty

Civil Disobedient · Jun 30, 2004

THomasAdams said:
The other part that bothers me is that there is no program to
verify that the .bin is valid, and or not corrupted due to
downloading from the internet.

Jesus, I didn't even think of that before rushing out and installing it like everybody else. That's an excellent point, Thomas.

lawnmower · Jun 30, 2004

Shooting is good Henry. I have started my own photography buisness. I have been hired by a few people and sold some prints. It is going good. Thanks for asking.

Henry Goh said:
that dinner is ready so I'll take a raincheck on this ;O))

How shooting these days?

Henry

--

http://www.pbase.com/henry_h_c_goh

Civil Disobedient · Jun 30, 2004

lanef said:
I have also heard
for someone that, he did not have backfocus problem before, but has
it now after the upgrade.

I doubt it, since the backfocus problem is not direcly a function of the software. I believe the backfocus issue relates to the alignment of the imaging circle on the focal plane of the CCD itself.

dwc231416 · Jun 30, 2004

The Screen tells you that the camera may die...

The D70 may be damaged if power is interrupted or camera controls are operated during the update. Do not turn the camera off, remove or disconnect the power source, or operate camera controls during the update. If the update is not completed successfully and the camera becomes inoperable, take the D70 to a Nikon-authorized service representative for inspection.

I have firmware updated 25 items I have owned at least 4 times each item. Never any problem. I just followed directions!

They warn you well enough. Your messing with a $900 (us) Body!

Skidpan · Jun 30, 2004

THomasAdams said:
Hello,

The reason the board is in need of repair, is much the same as a
computer motherboard bios. What happens is that for what ever
reason, the flash is unsuccessful you are left with a bad bios, one
that will not turn on, that would require a new EPROM to be placed
in it. Now on the cpu motherboard, these are generally in sockets,
although most often than not, you will find that the manufacturers
DO NOT offer the EPROM’s for sale, but instead you must replace the
entire board. Besides they make more money on it that way.

Back to the story at hand, I believe most computer motherboards now
out have information regarding the flashing of the memory, and I am
sure that the 2 different manufacturers that I have dealt with do
not state that harming the bios will void warranty.

Most of the new motherboards, certainly the ones that I buy (Gigabyte and Asus) have recovery procedures for bad firmware upgrades. Gigabyte have the dual bios setup (since about 1997), and Asus also have something to recover from bad upgrades.

Older motherboards are more vulnerable.

THomasAdams said:
The problem is, this is Nikon and not a computer manufacturer. I
agree with the above, I would raise a stink about it. IT does not
state in the manual to take your camera into a
warranty/repair/certified Nikon shop to upgrade the firmware. It is
a USER (hence what they call it) upgrade. One that should be easy
to do, following directions and one that should not under normal
conditions harm the camera. This is not a normal condition, Nikon
should make it right.

I agree.

THomasAdams said:
The other part that bothers me is that there is no program to
verify that the .bin is valid, and or not corrupted due to
downloading from the internet. This is another important issue. If
there is just a small bit (pun intended) of information that is
corrupted this could very well lead to problems in a firmware
upgrade. Perhaps a feature that could be added to a program update,
or a standalone program to download with each revision hereafter.

The camera should verify the firmware before upgrading, that's what the motherboards do. In any event, if you downloaded the USA D70 firmware, it was in an exe file which would not have run if it was corrupted. So if the exe expanded the bin files they would have been perfect.

THomasAdams said:
I wish you all the best of luck, and do not take no for an answer!
Stand your ground, and I support you 100%!!!

Best regards,
Thomas Adams

--
http://www.280dgamingclan.com/ThomasAdams/gallery/

Henry Goh said:

I had the same problem and went to Nikon Singapore. They
immediately said that this means they have to change some board and
that it was not covered and it will cost heavily.

I said BS.

They took the camera in and I will wait to hear from them. If it
turns out they want to charge me for this, I'm going to make sure
they pay heavily.

To start with, when a camera needs 2 firmware upgrade in less than
6 months, it is faulty.

Last month I was happy with their service and I posted to tell
everyone how good they were. Well, if they think after I have
spent so much time promoting the D70 because I felt it was good
from since 26th February and now stick this in me, they are going
to also know I can bad mouth them as nastily.

I sure hope Nikon get the act together and learn something about
technology products. They better don't assume that their software
is so perfect that anything failure in upgrading means it is caused
by the user. Furthermore, they had better learnt that they cannot
hide behind some legal clause on their web site and disclaim
responsibilty.

Let's see what teratment I get from Nikon Singapore.

cc this post to Nikon Singapore.

Henry Goh

Click to expand...

Skidpan · Jun 30, 2004

The USA firmware comes in an exe file which won't expand the firmware if it is corrupted, so you are quite safe.

Civil Disobedient said:
THomasAdams said:

The other part that bothers me is that there is no program to
verify that the .bin is valid, and or not corrupted due to
downloading from the internet.

Click to expand...

Jesus, I didn't even think of that before rushing out and
installing it like everybody else. That's an excellent point,
Thomas.

Skidpan · Jun 30, 2004

I agree, it's their problem.

stashu72 said:
To save frustration, just do not tell them you tried to upgrade the
firmware, just say it has errors. Just a thought. Stan

Skidpan · Jun 30, 2004

I'm sure that it's the board with the firmware chip. Nikon "forgot" to design a bad firmware recovery procedure into the D70 so they have to replace it with a board with the new firmware on.

clive yip said:
I just hope the Hong Kong Nikon engineers don't take the easy route
of finding which board is not working and just replacing it without
finding what the problem is. They say the cost of board replacement
would be around HK$1000 ( approx US$130) depending on which board
they replace. Hell, the camera is only 2 months old and cost
HK$8000. Thats over 10% of the cost of a new camera. This is my
first Nikon system and the service I got from Nikon Hong Kong
certainly leaves a bad taste in the mouth

JordyB said:

lanef said:

Thanks for sharing the upgrade problem, I feel quite apprehensive
to upgrade mine now as the camera works fine. I have also heard
for someone that, he did not have backfocus problem before, but has
it now after the upgrade.

Now, will NIKON do the upgrade without any charge?
What about in Australia?

Cheers
Jacques

Click to expand...

That is almost imposible for the camera to not have backfocus
before and then have backfocus after the upgrade, as the fix for
backfocus is a manual adjustment inside the camera...dosnt make
much sense to me...

--
JordyB

Click to expand...

MegaPixel · Jun 30, 2004

I downloaded mine from Nikon USA and it was a ZIP file not an EXE.

All I can say is, I feel really lucky, went ahead and did the upgrade without thinking that any of this could happen, I sure won't be doing any more upgrades anytime soon, If it aint broke dont fix it.

Sorry to hear this , I hope all involved get a happy solution from Nikon.

Skidpan said:
The camera should verify the firmware before upgrading, that's what
the motherboards do. In any event, if you downloaded the USA D70
firmware, it was in an exe file which would not have run if it was
corrupted. So if the exe expanded the bin files they would have
been perfect.

--
http://www.pbase.com/megap

Mike

MegaPixel · Jun 30, 2004

downloaded from the same source??

clive yip said:
I am rather cheesed off today. I tried to update the new Firmware
on my D70 yesterday. The first part of the update was ok. After
updating the 2nd part and getting the DONE screen, I powered off
and on the Camera just as instruction says but the camera seems to
have hanged with the message “ PC ????" (forgot the last part
of the message) displayed on the top LCD. I tried powering the
camera on and off a number of times without success. Next I tried
removing and inserting the battery. This action got rid of the LCD
message but the camera was totally dead.

This morning I took the Camera to the Hong Kong Nikon Dealer ( as
instructed on the web page if something goes wrong ) and explained
the situation to them. Their conclusion is I did something wrong
and shorted a circuit board. They will find out which board need
replacing and I have to pay for the parts as THIS IS NOT COVERED BY
THE WARENTY. They also said I should have taken the Camera to them
for the firmware upgrade. Thinking about it I should have just said
I don’t know what happen and let them sort the problem out.
Anyway, what I don’t understand is

1. Why would Nikon post the Firmware on their site for people to
download and update if it would void the warranty? Since the D70
has only been out for ½ year, any body who do the Firmware upgrade
themselves risk having the warranty void. No doubt there would be a
lot of people out there.

2. Why there was no message on the Nikon Web site warning people
that the warranty would cover any damages if they perform the
Firmware upgrade themselves.

3. The Firmware upgrade function is a legitimate part of the camera
operation, so why would it void the warranty?

4. Why Nikon did not make their camera more fool proof. Sees to me
it very easy to kill the camera.

Not sure who I can write to confirm in writing about the warranty
issue. Maybe Nikon Japan or to the CEO of Nikon Hong Kong.

My message to everyone is DON’T UPDATE THE FIRMWARE YOURSELF,
especially with warranty. Sod’s law states “ If
something can go wrong will go wrong”. Let Nikon break the
camera. You can then give they a good telling off and let them fix
it.

--
http://www.pbase.com/megap

Mike

afe1 · Jun 30, 2004

Todays lesson on firmware updates!

If the camera is working OK and there is nothing in the firmware upgrade thats going to make your camera better, then its ALWAYS better to not upgrade the firmware!.

You see everytime you upgrade firmware you run the risk of making your camera brain dead and in need of professional help.

Everyone knows that and thats why their heartbeat goes up by 30% when its time to turn the camera back on to see if it works!
There is a saying in Australia that goes like this.........
If it ain't broke......don't fix it!

The risk is low, but its always there. I like most would upgrade the firmware in every device I own but not anymore. Now I would only do it if there is a benefit to be had.

Anyway having said all that, Nikon SHOULD and will (if you get tough with them) repair your camera for free. If it indeed has a shorted PCB then thats not something that a firmware upgrade can do. If it just happend to develop a shorted PCB at the time of the upgrade then that will be covered by the warranty in the usual way.
Jose

clive yip said:
I am rather cheesed off today. I tried to update the new Firmware
on my D70 yesterday. The first part of the update was ok. After
updating the 2nd part and getting the DONE screen, I powered off
and on the Camera just as instruction says but the camera seems to
have hanged with the message “ PC ????" (forgot the last part
of the message) displayed on the top LCD. I tried powering the
camera on and off a number of times without success. Next I tried
removing and inserting the battery. This action got rid of the LCD
message but the camera was totally dead.

This morning I took the Camera to the Hong Kong Nikon Dealer ( as
instructed on the web page if something goes wrong ) and explained
the situation to them. Their conclusion is I did something wrong
and shorted a circuit board. They will find out which board need
replacing and I have to pay for the parts as THIS IS NOT COVERED BY
THE WARENTY. They also said I should have taken the Camera to them
for the firmware upgrade. Thinking about it I should have just said
I don’t know what happen and let them sort the problem out.
Anyway, what I don’t understand is

1. Why would Nikon post the Firmware on their site for people to
download and update if it would void the warranty? Since the D70
has only been out for ½ year, any body who do the Firmware upgrade
themselves risk having the warranty void. No doubt there would be a
lot of people out there.

2. Why there was no message on the Nikon Web site warning people
that the warranty would cover any damages if they perform the
Firmware upgrade themselves.

3. The Firmware upgrade function is a legitimate part of the camera
operation, so why would it void the warranty?

4. Why Nikon did not make their camera more fool proof. Sees to me
it very easy to kill the camera.

Not sure who I can write to confirm in writing about the warranty
issue. Maybe Nikon Japan or to the CEO of Nikon Hong Kong.

My message to everyone is DON’T UPDATE THE FIRMWARE YOURSELF,
especially with warranty. Sod’s law states “ If
something can go wrong will go wrong”. Let Nikon break the
camera. You can then give they a good telling off and let them fix
it.

MegaPixel · Jun 30, 2004

First le me say that my update went well, no problems... but I almost screwed up because I uploade both A and B files to the flash card at the same time, luckily before I did the actual upgrade I decided to read the instructions carefully and there it was, A WARNING to do it one at a time!

Who knows what could have happened if I had'n read that warning.

I think it is terrible that there is no way to reset the camera to the original software in case of emergency. for Gods sake the whole download file is about 500KB big, how much could it cost to have the original software burned into a prom. My HP handheld is more sofisticated than the D70 as far as computing goes and it can be reset to original specs in 2 minutes.

dwc said:
The Screen tells you that the camera may die...

The D70 may be damaged if power is interrupted or camera controls
are operated during the update. Do not turn the camera off, remove
or disconnect the power source, or operate camera controls during
the update. If the update is not completed successfully and the
camera becomes inoperable, take the D70 to a Nikon-authorized
service representative for inspection.

I have firmware updated 25 items I have owned at least 4 times each
item. Never any problem. I just followed directions!

They warn you well enough. Your messing with a $900 (us) Body!

--
http://www.pbase.com/megap

Mike

clive yip · Jun 30, 2004

As far as I am aware I followed the instructions. The first part of the upgrade was successful and I just repeated the steps for the second part. And no, I did not turn off the power, take out the Memory card, operate the camera controls - as stated in the instructions. And I did take it to the Nikon authorised service representative listed on the Warrenty for inspection as described.

You can update the Firmware a million time without encountering any problem but that do not mean problem would not accur on that million and one time. It only take that one time to mess you up.

My point is Nikon do not tell us that the Warrenty is void if you perform the Firmware upgrade. How many readers here will perform the Firmware upgrade knowing if something goes wrong it would not be cover by the Warrenty. How many of you here who have read this message now dare press the Yes button to confirm Firmware update. You certainly will get a rush for 3 minutes.

dwc said:
The Screen tells you that the camera may die...

The D70 may be damaged if power is interrupted or camera controls
are operated during the update. Do not turn the camera off, remove
or disconnect the power source, or operate camera controls during
the update. If the update is not completed successfully and the
camera becomes inoperable, take the D70 to a Nikon-authorized
service representative for inspection.

I have firmware updated 25 items I have owned at least 4 times each
item. Never any problem. I just followed directions!

They warn you well enough. Your messing with a $900 (us) Body!

MegaPixel · Jun 30, 2004

You are absolutely right, if doing the upgrade will void your warranty they should say so in BIG RED BOLD LETTERS more than once, there is no excuse

clive yip said:
You can update the Firmware a million time without encountering any
problem but that do not mean problem would not accur on that
million and one time. It only take that one time to mess you up.

My point is Nikon do not tell us that the Warrenty is void if you
perform the Firmware upgrade. How many readers here will perform
the Firmware upgrade knowing if something goes wrong it would not
be cover by the Warrenty. How many of you here who have read this
message now dare press the Yes button to confirm Firmware update.
You certainly will get a rush for 3 minutes.

dwc said:

The Screen tells you that the camera may die...

The D70 may be damaged if power is interrupted or camera controls
are operated during the update. Do not turn the camera off, remove
or disconnect the power source, or operate camera controls during
the update. If the update is not completed successfully and the
camera becomes inoperable, take the D70 to a Nikon-authorized
service representative for inspection.

I have firmware updated 25 items I have owned at least 4 times each
item. Never any problem. I just followed directions!

They warn you well enough. Your messing with a $900 (us) Body!

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/megap

Mike

Skidpan · Jun 30, 2004

OK, I got confused with the exe from Japan, which I also downloaded.

But same principle applies, you cannot extract files from a corrupted zip file. So if you can copy them out, then they are fine.

I have only heard about two guys with problems, and even though it is very uncomfortable for them it is surely a very small percentage.

MegaPixel said:
Sorry to hear this , I hope all involved get a happy solution from
Nikon.

MegaPixel said:

The camera should verify the firmware before upgrading, that's what
the motherboards do. In any event, if you downloaded the USA D70
firmware, it was in an exe file which would not have run if it was
corrupted. So if the exe expanded the bin files they would have
been perfect.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/megap

Mike

Skidpan · Jun 30, 2004

They could have have had a small prom for emerergency firmware reload. It would only need limited functions, ie CF card access and copy to EPROM.

Maybe 16k ?

MegaPixel said:
I think it is terrible that there is no way to reset the camera to
the original software in case of emergency. for Gods sake the whole
download file is about 500KB big, how much could it cost to have
the original software burned into a prom. My HP handheld is more
sofisticated than the D70 as far as computing goes and it can be
reset to original specs in 2 minutes.

Skidpan · Jun 30, 2004

I don't think that Clive or Henry specified the source of their firmware files.

I also had an Asian D70 and I upgraded with the USA files - No problems!

MegaPixel said:
clive yip said:

I am rather cheesed off today. I tried to update the new Firmware
on my D70 yesterday. The first part of the update was ok. After
updating the 2nd part and getting the DONE screen, I powered off
and on the Camera just as instruction says but the camera seems to
have hanged with the message “ PC ????" (forgot the last part
of the message) displayed on the top LCD. I tried powering the
camera on and off a number of times without success. Next I tried
removing and inserting the battery. This action got rid of the LCD
message but the camera was totally dead.

This morning I took the Camera to the Hong Kong Nikon Dealer ( as
instructed on the web page if something goes wrong ) and explained
the situation to them. Their conclusion is I did something wrong
and shorted a circuit board. They will find out which board need
replacing and I have to pay for the parts as THIS IS NOT COVERED BY
THE WARENTY. They also said I should have taken the Camera to them
for the firmware upgrade. Thinking about it I should have just said
I don’t know what happen and let them sort the problem out.
Anyway, what I don’t understand is

1. Why would Nikon post the Firmware on their site for people to
download and update if it would void the warranty? Since the D70
has only been out for ½ year, any body who do the Firmware upgrade
themselves risk having the warranty void. No doubt there would be a
lot of people out there.

2. Why there was no message on the Nikon Web site warning people
that the warranty would cover any damages if they perform the
Firmware upgrade themselves.

3. The Firmware upgrade function is a legitimate part of the camera
operation, so why would it void the warranty?

4. Why Nikon did not make their camera more fool proof. Sees to me
it very easy to kill the camera.

Not sure who I can write to confirm in writing about the warranty
issue. Maybe Nikon Japan or to the CEO of Nikon Hong Kong.

My message to everyone is DON’T UPDATE THE FIRMWARE YOURSELF,
especially with warranty. Sod’s law states “ If
something can go wrong will go wrong”. Let Nikon break the
camera. You can then give they a good telling off and let them fix
it.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/megap

Mike

Skidpan · Jun 30, 2004

afe1 said:
Todays lesson on firmware updates!

If the camera is working OK and there is nothing in the firmware
upgrade thats going to make your camera better, then its ALWAYS
better to not upgrade the firmware!.
You see everytime you upgrade firmware you run the risk of making
your camera brain dead and in need of professional help.
Everyone knows that and thats why their heartbeat goes up by 30%
when its time to turn the camera back on to see if it works!
There is a saying in Australia that goes like this.........
If it ain't broke......don't fix it!

Yes, but it's exciting and it does fix a few bugs !

afe1 said:
The risk is low, but its always there. I like most would upgrade
the firmware in every device I own but not anymore. Now I would
only do it if there is a benefit to be had.

Be devil - just do it ! Beer isn't good for you either.

afe1 said:
Anyway having said all that, Nikon SHOULD and will (if you get
tough with them) repair your camera for free. If it indeed has a
shorted PCB then thats not something that a firmware upgrade can
do. If it just happend to develop a shorted PCB at the time of the
upgrade then that will be covered by the warranty in the usual way.

It's not possible for the process to damage a board. The firmware is just corrupted and Nikon "forgot" to include circuitry to recover from a "bad" flash. Or shall I just say it : Poor product design. Maybe to keep the cost down.

afe1 said:
Jose

clive yip said:

I am rather cheesed off today. I tried to update the new Firmware
on my D70 yesterday. The first part of the update was ok. After
updating the 2nd part and getting the DONE screen, I powered off
and on the Camera just as instruction says but the camera seems to
have hanged with the message “ PC ????" (forgot the last part
of the message) displayed on the top LCD. I tried powering the
camera on and off a number of times without success. Next I tried
removing and inserting the battery. This action got rid of the LCD
message but the camera was totally dead.

This morning I took the Camera to the Hong Kong Nikon Dealer ( as
instructed on the web page if something goes wrong ) and explained
the situation to them. Their conclusion is I did something wrong
and shorted a circuit board. They will find out which board need
replacing and I have to pay for the parts as THIS IS NOT COVERED BY
THE WARENTY. They also said I should have taken the Camera to them
for the firmware upgrade. Thinking about it I should have just said
I don’t know what happen and let them sort the problem out.
Anyway, what I don’t understand is

1. Why would Nikon post the Firmware on their site for people to
download and update if it would void the warranty? Since the D70
has only been out for ½ year, any body who do the Firmware upgrade
themselves risk having the warranty void. No doubt there would be a
lot of people out there.

2. Why there was no message on the Nikon Web site warning people
that the warranty would cover any damages if they perform the
Firmware upgrade themselves.

3. The Firmware upgrade function is a legitimate part of the camera
operation, so why would it void the warranty?

4. Why Nikon did not make their camera more fool proof. Sees to me
it very easy to kill the camera.

Not sure who I can write to confirm in writing about the warranty
issue. Maybe Nikon Japan or to the CEO of Nikon Hong Kong.

My message to everyone is DON’T UPDATE THE FIRMWARE YOURSELF,
especially with warranty. Sod’s law states “ If
something can go wrong will go wrong”. Let Nikon break the
camera. You can then give they a good telling off and let them fix
it.

Click to expand...

clive yip · Jun 30, 2004

Like most people here, I first learn about the new Firmware here on dpreview (where else to get the latest gossips) and just followed the link to the US Nikon website.

Skidpan said:
I also had an Asian D70 and I upgraded with the USA files - No
problems!

MegaPixel said:

clive yip said:

I am rather cheesed off today. I tried to update the new Firmware
on my D70 yesterday. The first part of the update was ok. After
updating the 2nd part and getting the DONE screen, I powered off
and on the Camera just as instruction says but the camera seems to
have hanged with the message “ PC ????" (forgot the last part
of the message) displayed on the top LCD. I tried powering the
camera on and off a number of times without success. Next I tried
removing and inserting the battery. This action got rid of the LCD
message but the camera was totally dead.

This morning I took the Camera to the Hong Kong Nikon Dealer ( as
instructed on the web page if something goes wrong ) and explained
the situation to them. Their conclusion is I did something wrong
and shorted a circuit board. They will find out which board need
replacing and I have to pay for the parts as THIS IS NOT COVERED BY
THE WARENTY. They also said I should have taken the Camera to them
for the firmware upgrade. Thinking about it I should have just said
I don’t know what happen and let them sort the problem out.
Anyway, what I don’t understand is

1. Why would Nikon post the Firmware on their site for people to
download and update if it would void the warranty? Since the D70
has only been out for ½ year, any body who do the Firmware upgrade
themselves risk having the warranty void. No doubt there would be a
lot of people out there.

2. Why there was no message on the Nikon Web site warning people
that the warranty would cover any damages if they perform the
Firmware upgrade themselves.

3. The Firmware upgrade function is a legitimate part of the camera
operation, so why would it void the warranty?

4. Why Nikon did not make their camera more fool proof. Sees to me
it very easy to kill the camera.

Not sure who I can write to confirm in writing about the warranty
issue. Maybe Nikon Japan or to the CEO of Nikon Hong Kong.

My message to everyone is DON’T UPDATE THE FIRMWARE YOURSELF,
especially with warranty. Sod’s law states “ If
something can go wrong will go wrong”. Let Nikon break the
camera. You can then give they a good telling off and let them fix
it.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/megap

Mike

Click to expand...

MikeS184699 · Jun 30, 2004

THomasAdams said:
Hello,

The reason the board is in need of repair, is much the same as a
computer motherboard bios. What happens is that for what ever

reason, the flash is unsuccessful you are left with a bad bios, snip snip snip etc.

Thats a good point, But you have failed to realise that the camer operating system is held in an eprom. I would think the upgrade errases the program in memory and then installs a new one or it could over write it. Also I seem to remember that there is a small button battery in the camera perhaps this will wipe the Bios(for the want of anther name).

However I do not have to upgrade my firmware as Nikon UK have my camera in for repair under warrenty and will load the firmware upgrade before I collect it to morrow.

Regards MikeS

Firmware update problem not cover by warrenty

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