sent my pro1 back

Look, I'm not on anyone's side, i'm just trying to figure out your
logic?

You didn't answer my question,

"If you make "Extensive Use" of features that where NOT available on
another model, how can you expect the battery life to be the same?"
Even if I use the Pro1 in the same manner as I did the G3, it will give me roughly half the battery life, as supported by Phil's standardized battery test. I didn't want to harp endlessly about this initially after I got the camera because I realized that only a standardized test could definitively assess its performance, Buit now the test result is out and it is confirmed.

If the Pro1 performed as well as the G3 WITHOUT the use of any extra features, that would be one thing. But that isn't the case.
When I use something. "Extensively", I usually use it up a little
quicker.
Yeah, more battery life would be great, but when you add
features......
What was Canon supposed to use, Cold Fusion?
Sony, Olympus, Konica-Minolta, and Nikon all have 8mp cameras out with similar feature sets and they all have considerably better battery life than the Pro1. No Cold Fusion required.
 
Ah yes, image quality. I forget that so many of us care only about
image quality even at the expense of usability, versatiulity, and
convenience...

I take a more balanced view, and I demand a balanced camera design.
I would have no use for a camera with perfect image quality and
infinite resolution if its battery life, ergonomics, controls, and
other features were bad enough.
you should probably go out and get the Oly........i think the Oly
forum could use such a great photographer (let alone camera critic)
such as you.......honestly, no one here will miss you.........not
even a little bit......trust me on this...........i've discussed
this in emails from other posters here who, well, to be frank,
don't like you or your snidey remarks.......you bring a deteriating
effect to this board..
I bought a Rebel a couple of months ago when I had read enough
pre-release reviews to realize the Pro 1 wasn't going to give a
great increase in speed of operation over it's predecessors. Those
attributes were very important to me. However if great pictures
straight out of the camera is your number one priority then perhaps
you should have kept your Pro 1. Out of all the reviews I have
read of the current 8 megpixel cameras, the general consensus is
that the Pro 1 is at or near the top in that regard.
Actually, Phil's review said nothing of the kind. The Olympus came
out near the top. The Pro1's vignetting, terrible battery life, and
mollasses slow performance are a big disappointment.

Sounds like you're been reading too many posts by summerwind and
Marco Nero.
Although Mike can be abrasive at times - I have read many of his posts that are helpful and informative. Just because you are e-mailing other members of the forum regarding Mike and your cronies don't like him - doesn't really mean that much. You don't respresnet the entire CTF by any stretch of the imagination.

--
Bauerman
http://www.bauerman.galleries.photoshare.co.nz
 
Hi Mike,

Have you tried any of the Lowepro bags?

I am happy with my D-RES40AW, it also has enough room for a 420EX, I know your not after one that size, but I believe the size below mine the 30AW might be what your looking for. Not sure though have not seen one, but might be worth looking into.

Phillip.
Hi Mike,

You still got your Pro1?
I agree with you about the Post processing for DSLR. I do plan on
purchasing one later in the year, but concerned about spending the
rest of the night processing a few hundred photos after a days
photoshoot carrying all that equipment. LOL. I think I will be
exhausted the next day.
I'm not sure, but I thought the 300D had some in-camera settings
designed for those who don't want to post-process??

I still have the Pro1, and it's a mixed bag. I like the build
quality, the resolution, the zoom, and the improved manual focus
control. But I hate the extra bulk and weight and the lousy battery
life.

I've gone through 3 cameras bags and am not happy with any of them.
Nobody seems to make a suitable bag for someone who just wants to
carry the camera plus an extra battery and memory card.
 
Summerwind, appreciate the reply, but this does not make sense to me.

Firstly, you cannot put an anti-aliasing filter over a sensor. An AA filter is not a piece of glass, it is a computer program that processes digital data.(At least it was when I got a Distinction in digital signal processing at uni.) This would have to be in a DLSR as well as digicams to prevent moire, etc. Just ask Mr. Nyquist if you don't believe me.

And so far as 'metering the scene' is concerned, if all you are telling me is that an experienced photographer can better decide on the correct exposure than an automatic metering system, then all I can figure is that the DSLR should have the better photo out of the camera.

I am not denying the claim that the DSLR needmore processing to get a better photo (too many people have said this for to think it isn't true), but I amjust curious as to why, and all the explanations so far are bogus.

Anyway, I can read (great deduction from observing my participation in the forum ;-) ), and will look around in Phil's articles for the answer.

Regards as usual,
Harrow.
Mike & others,

Why is this? The camera is looking at the same thing, and from
what I read, the DSLR will take a smoother picture, presumably less
PF and CA, so what makes it need more processing ?
there is an AA filter over the sensors..............
I just don't
get it. Is this still the same if you use 'P' mode on the DSLR??
you need to read one of Phil's reviews,..........you can read correct?
Puzzled and ignorant,
Harrow.
John, this had been discussed to death. SLR cameras provide better
quality, but not straight out of the camera. You need to
post-process. If you, like me, have no desire to do this on a
regular basis, then you may be better off with a non-SLR camera.
--
http://www.pbase.com/harrow
--
http://www.pbase.com/harrow
 
Mike,

Are you telling memy camera (s400) is doing all sorts of stuff to my data? Apart from making focus, and metering decisions (which I can force by various means) what else would it do?

Regards,
Harrow.
Mike & others,

Why is this? The camera is looking at the same thing, and from
what I read, the DSLR will take a smoother picture, presumably less
PF and CA, so what makes it need more processing ? I just don't
get it. Is this still the same if you use 'P' mode on the DSLR??

Puzzled and ignorant,
Harrow.
A camera that automatically delivers great results deprives the
user of some level of control over the final image. No automated
system can match the ability of a skilled person hand-processing
images one by one. DSLRs for the most part are designed for pros,
and so the cameras perform minimal if any processing to the images,
allowing the maximum latitude for post-processing.

Why do you think nsports car drivers like manual transmissions?
Because an automatic transmission can't read your mind.
--
http://www.pbase.com/harrow
 
hi Harrow,

hey check this page out.........scroll down to see the cross section of the imaging sensor with the low pass filter (glass) directly in front of the sensor......same thing is done in our prosumer cams too.

on the subject of metering, i'm talking about situations where even the cameras metering can be fooled, this is where you will want to point the camera at different areas in the scene and watch the different shutter speeds the camera will pick.........i usually find something in the dark grey shade and use that to lock AE, then focus lock on the target and take the shot.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D60/D60A3.HTM
 
Summerwind, appreciate the reply, but this does not make sense to me.

Firstly, you cannot put an anti-aliasing filter over a sensor. An
AA filter is not a piece of glass, it is a computer program that
processes digital data.(At least it was when I got a Distinction in
digital signal processing at uni.) This would have to be in a DLSR
as well as digicams to prevent moire, etc. Just ask Mr. Nyquist if
you don't believe me.
My dear Harrow,

Yes indeed... There is an anti-alias filter over the sensor. And yes... it is a sandwiched piece of various layers. But we are talking about spatial frequency here... as in repetitive line spacings, not linear frequency as in light and radio. The spatial AA filter is to eliminate moire effects where spatial frequencies greater than the sensor resolving power strike the sensor and produce a spatial alias. As in fishnet stockings. Same idea, different application. Nyquist still applies, but in a spatial sense rather than the linear sense you are thinking. K?

See this Canon link for further information
http://www.canon.com/technology/detail/digi_35mm/lo_filter/

kindest regards
Dale

It is possible to make a small fortune in photography, you just have to start with a large fortune.
 
Mike,

Are you telling memy camera (s400) is doing all sorts of stuff to
my data? Apart from making focus, and metering decisions (which I
can force by various means) what else would it do?
Oh my goodness yes! There is an enormous amount of signal processing involved to just generate the digital image from the Bayer pattern on the sensor Harrow. Remember that photo diodes are not color sensitive. So RGB die patterns in a checkerboard fashion have to be placed over various sites to obtain color information. There is then demosaicing signal processing to generate an image from the various colored sensors and correlate it to the luminance data. The chrominance data is scattered in a mosaic. You will enjoy studying and learning about what a marvelous technology is really involved in a digital camera sensor and getting the final image. Lots involved!

kindest regards
Dale

It is possible to make a small fortune in photography, you just have to start with a large fortune.
 
Dale (and Summerwind),thanks for your replies,

I fully appreciate your comments below, but getting back to the crux of my question, what makes a DSLR require more post-processing than a digicam. (remembering that my original post was in response to the general consensus on this post that a Rebel shot image would require more post-processing than a Pro-1). Is the in-camera processing different in both, and if so, how in particular?

(I am looking for Phil's articles on the subject, any links would be helpful.)

Regards,
Harrow.

P.S. I see you are also an engineer, so we can talk the same language here ;-)
Mike,

Are you telling memy camera (s400) is doing all sorts of stuff to
my data? Apart from making focus, and metering decisions (which I
can force by various means) what else would it do?
Oh my goodness yes! There is an enormous amount of signal
processing involved to just generate the digital image from the
Bayer pattern on the sensor Harrow. Remember that photo diodes are
not color sensitive. So RGB die patterns in a checkerboard fashion
have to be placed over various sites to obtain color information.
There is then demosaicing signal processing to generate an image
from the various colored sensors and correlate it to the luminance
data. The chrominance data is scattered in a mosaic. You will
enjoy studying and learning about what a marvelous technology is
really involved in a digital camera sensor and getting the final
image. Lots involved!

kindest regards
Dale
It is possible to make a small fortune in photography, you just
have to start with a large fortune.
--
http://www.pbase.com/harrow
 
hi Harrow....i think Dale is the pro here on explaining these diferences. what i did do though was to takes some shots with my Pro1 and then with my D60, only i set the saturation and sharpness to the highest level.

i shot in jpeg and the shots from the D60 were every bit as sharp as the Pro1.........this is usually how i set the D60 if i want to print without post process.............the only thing is, it doesn't leave much room for editing, but the pictures print just fine up to 8x10.
I fully appreciate your comments below, but getting back to the
crux of my question, what makes a DSLR require more post-processing
than a digicam. (remembering that my original post was in response
to the general consensus on this post that a Rebel shot image would
require more post-processing than a Pro-1). Is the in-camera
processing different in both, and if so, how in particular?

(I am looking for Phil's articles on the subject, any links would
be helpful.)

Regards,
Harrow.

P.S. I see you are also an engineer, so we can talk the same
language here ;-)
Mike,

Are you telling memy camera (s400) is doing all sorts of stuff to
my data? Apart from making focus, and metering decisions (which I
can force by various means) what else would it do?
Oh my goodness yes! There is an enormous amount of signal
processing involved to just generate the digital image from the
Bayer pattern on the sensor Harrow. Remember that photo diodes are
not color sensitive. So RGB die patterns in a checkerboard fashion
have to be placed over various sites to obtain color information.
There is then demosaicing signal processing to generate an image
from the various colored sensors and correlate it to the luminance
data. The chrominance data is scattered in a mosaic. You will
enjoy studying and learning about what a marvelous technology is
really involved in a digital camera sensor and getting the final
image. Lots involved!

kindest regards
Dale
It is possible to make a small fortune in photography, you just
have to start with a large fortune.
--
http://www.pbase.com/harrow
 
Ahh, This is starting to head somewhere, I think. Yes, I can imagine different levels of sharpness, or softening being applied to a digicam to be immediately more pleasing to the eye. Now, does this mean that if shooting in RAW, then the original statements of differing post-processing requirements between digicams and DSLR's no longer applies ?

Regards,
Harrow.

P.S. Everytime I learn something on this forum, I find there are two more things that I do not understand !!
I fully appreciate your comments below, but getting back to the
crux of my question, what makes a DSLR require more post-processing
than a digicam. (remembering that my original post was in response
to the general consensus on this post that a Rebel shot image would
require more post-processing than a Pro-1). Is the in-camera
processing different in both, and if so, how in particular?

(I am looking for Phil's articles on the subject, any links would
be helpful.)

Regards,
Harrow.

P.S. I see you are also an engineer, so we can talk the same
language here ;-)
Mike,

Are you telling memy camera (s400) is doing all sorts of stuff to
my data? Apart from making focus, and metering decisions (which I
can force by various means) what else would it do?
Oh my goodness yes! There is an enormous amount of signal
processing involved to just generate the digital image from the
Bayer pattern on the sensor Harrow. Remember that photo diodes are
not color sensitive. So RGB die patterns in a checkerboard fashion
have to be placed over various sites to obtain color information.
There is then demosaicing signal processing to generate an image
from the various colored sensors and correlate it to the luminance
data. The chrominance data is scattered in a mosaic. You will
enjoy studying and learning about what a marvelous technology is
really involved in a digital camera sensor and getting the final
image. Lots involved!

kindest regards
Dale
It is possible to make a small fortune in photography, you just
have to start with a large fortune.
--
http://www.pbase.com/harrow
--
http://www.pbase.com/harrow
 
I just did the opposite. Turned back a Rebel for the Pro 1 and did not regret it. I know that the AF and the speed of the Rebel is fantastic when compared to the Pro 1 but the quality of pics without processing is much better with the Pro 1. I don't take pics of sports and low light show so it was not a big deal for me. I don't want to spend too much time in Photoshop. When you're back from vacation with 300 pics it is simply ridiculous to fix everything in PS.You can have the same quality with the Rebel but not with the kit lens. You'll have to buy a much better L lens and the price will be much higher. Sorry to say that but be prepared for a big dissapointment when you'll compare pics of your new Rebel and your Pro 1. Go and compare the Phil's Martini bottle test shot of the Pro 1 and the Rebel at full size an be prepared for a shock.





Sorry for my bad english.
I read all these negative forums on the Pro1, got in a panic and
sent mine back and will replace it with a Rebel. This morning I
looked at one of the pictures that I printed with my epson 890
right out of the camera with no editing, and hope I am not going to
be sorry for my decision.
I shot a picture of my house with all the flowers and shrubs in
bloom, and I shot using the vibrant option. Well it was simply
beautiful. One of my friends brought over his new D70 a little
over a week ago. And although his was a great camera, very fast
and great lens. The pictures from my Pro1 right out of the camera
were far superior. I got blasted for saying this on this forum
before, but I see what I see. I usually do a lot of blowups in my
commercial art business, on my epson 7600 with a rip. And Canon's
have it over all the best with the final pics. My buddy with the
D70 said mine were a lot better but were not natural like his. His
were definitly sharper, due to the focus assist lamp and just
better focussing, but they all had a bluish tint to them while the
canon looked like I spent a lot of time in Photoshop to enhance the
color to look like a studio photo.
The video was really great, and actually you can use the flash and
flash assist in the flash to fix the focus problem.
In a way I wish I hadn't read any of these reviews and kept my
Pro1. I know I'll love my Rebel, but the Pro1 had everything
except the fast focus of a DSLR.
 
Dale (and Summerwind),thanks for your replies,

I fully appreciate your comments below, but getting back to the
crux of my question, what makes a DSLR require more post-processing
than a digicam. (remembering that my original post was in response
to the general consensus on this post that a Rebel shot image would
require more post-processing than a Pro-1). Is the in-camera
processing different in both, and if so, how in particular?

(I am looking for Phil's articles on the subject, any links would
be helpful.)

Regards,
Harrow.

P.S. I see you are also an engineer, so we can talk the same
language here ;-)
Yes... That is correct, and hope I can be helpful to you. :)

There are lots of things that make these cameras behave differently, but lets go right to the basics first. As an engineer, you will appreciate the calculations...

The pixel to pixel spacing on the Rebel 300D sensor is 7.4 microns. To resolve a dark line / white space pair then two pixel positions would be required, making 2 X 7.4= 14.8 microns for a line pair. (The dark line would be on one pixel, while the white space would be on the next one, and then the pattern repeated.)

Since there are 1000 microns per millimeter, the calculation now becomes:

1000 14.7= 68.02 line pairs per millimeter as the maximum possible sensor resolution. To prevent Aliasing then, a fairly strong spatial AA filter needs to be placed in front of the sensor to remove all frequencies above 68 lpm. Canon calls this a low pass filter, which it is, but remember it is spatial frequency not light frequency.

This also tells us that a high resolution lens with resolving power greater than 68 lpm has the high frequency data removed by the filter. All that is required is a lens with at least 68 lpm of resolving power. But what is really important is since this is a digital senosr, that the lens deliver the maximum possible MTF at 60 lpm! That takes really good L quality glass to get the best image.... and you can see the difference. Don't be fooled by the relatively low resolving power.

It also tells us that the photosites are fairly large at 7.4 microns, and therefore the dark current, and brownian noise effects are a much smaller percentage of the total charge, so the sensor has low noise.

The sharp cutoff AA filter softens the image somewhat however, and so without resharpening the image, it appears soft.

Now let's look at the Pro1. Its pixel to pixel spacing is 2.7 microns. By the same set of calculations as above... a line pair requires
2 x 2.7=5.4 microns. And 1000/5.4= 185.18 line pairs per mm!! Wow!

As a result a much higher spatial frequency and less aggressive AA filter is used here to cut off frequencies higher than 185 lpm to avoid moire and aliasing... Now the opposite requirement is placed on the lens. It is very difficult to design a lens that can resolve 185 lpm, and the image circle needs to be reduced in order to achieve that resolution. Canon and Olympus have succeeded in making lenses of this caliber for the pro1 and the 8080.

You can see that the image is natively sharper without post processing because of a weaker AA filter than the 10D and 300D. However, the smaller photo-diode size means that dark current and quantum noise effects are a larger percentage of the total charge. There is therefore, more noise, and less possible ISO sensitivity. The gain can't be turned up quite so high on the ISO amplifier.

Both of these cameras have a Bayer color pattern overlaid on the sensor surface to effectively make an array of sites that are sensitive to Red,Green, and Blue. (There are some sensors made for CMY complementary colors, and Canon used to use one, but that is a different story.) The raw data out of the sensor looks pretty horrible.

The digic processor that Canon has developed is responsible for demosaicing these sites into a proper color image. There is an RGBG pattern and Canon uses the Green sites to obtain luminance data, since the green receptors closely match the luninance sensitivity curve of the human eye.

From the above discussion it is apparent that the DSLR gives a smoother more noise free image, but more post processing is required to bring back the sharpness after being softened by the aggressive low pass AA filter. The smaller sensor requires less sharpening, but some is applied anyway, to make the image pleasing.

Hope this helps some. There is a lot more....

kindest regards
Dale

It is possible to make a small fortune in photography, you just have to start with a large fortune.
 
Thanks Dale,

I feel like I just opened up Pandora's box !!!

Regards,
Harrow.
Dale (and Summerwind),thanks for your replies,

I fully appreciate your comments below, but getting back to the
crux of my question, what makes a DSLR require more post-processing
than a digicam. (remembering that my original post was in response
to the general consensus on this post that a Rebel shot image would
require more post-processing than a Pro-1). Is the in-camera
processing different in both, and if so, how in particular?

(I am looking for Phil's articles on the subject, any links would
be helpful.)

Regards,
Harrow.

P.S. I see you are also an engineer, so we can talk the same
language here ;-)
Yes... That is correct, and hope I can be helpful to you. :)

There are lots of things that make these cameras behave
differently, but lets go right to the basics first. As an
engineer, you will appreciate the calculations...

The pixel to pixel spacing on the Rebel 300D sensor is 7.4 microns.
To resolve a dark line / white space pair then two pixel positions
would be required, making 2 X 7.4= 14.8 microns for a line pair.
(The dark line would be on one pixel, while the white space would
be on the next one, and then the pattern repeated.)

Since there are 1000 microns per millimeter, the calculation now
becomes:

1000 14.7= 68.02 line pairs per millimeter as the maximum possible
sensor resolution. To prevent Aliasing then, a fairly strong
spatial AA filter needs to be placed in front of the sensor to
remove all frequencies above 68 lpm. Canon calls this a low pass
filter, which it is, but remember it is spatial frequency not light
frequency.


This also tells us that a high resolution lens with resolving power
greater than 68 lpm has the high frequency data removed by the
filter. All that is required is a lens with at least 68 lpm of
resolving power. But what is really important is since this is a
digital senosr, that the lens deliver the maximum possible MTF at
60 lpm! That takes really good L quality glass to get the best
image.... and you can see the difference. Don't be fooled by the
relatively low resolving power.

It also tells us that the photosites are fairly large at 7.4
microns, and therefore the dark current, and brownian noise effects
are a much smaller percentage of the total charge, so the sensor
has low noise.

The sharp cutoff AA filter softens the image somewhat however, and
so without resharpening the image, it appears soft.

Now let's look at the Pro1. Its pixel to pixel spacing is 2.7
microns. By the same set of calculations as above... a line pair
requires
2 x 2.7=5.4 microns. And 1000/5.4= 185.18 line pairs per mm!! Wow!

As a result a much higher spatial frequency and less aggressive AA
filter is used here to cut off frequencies higher than 185 lpm to
avoid moire and aliasing... Now the opposite requirement is placed
on the lens. It is very difficult to design a lens that can
resolve 185 lpm, and the image circle needs to be reduced in order
to achieve that resolution. Canon and Olympus have succeeded in
making lenses of this caliber for the pro1 and the 8080.

You can see that the image is natively sharper without post
processing because of a weaker AA filter than the 10D and 300D.
However, the smaller photo-diode size means that dark current and
quantum noise effects are a larger percentage of the total charge.
There is therefore, more noise, and less possible ISO sensitivity.
The gain can't be turned up quite so high on the ISO amplifier.

Both of these cameras have a Bayer color pattern overlaid on the
sensor surface to effectively make an array of sites that are
sensitive to Red,Green, and Blue. (There are some sensors made for
CMY complementary colors, and Canon used to use one, but that is a
different story.) The raw data out of the sensor looks pretty
horrible.
The digic processor that Canon has developed is responsible for
demosaicing these sites into a proper color image. There is an
RGBG pattern and Canon uses the Green sites to obtain luminance
data, since the green receptors closely match the luninance
sensitivity curve of the human eye.

From the above discussion it is apparent that the DSLR gives a
smoother more noise free image, but more post processing is
required to bring back the sharpness after being softened by the
aggressive low pass AA filter. The smaller sensor requires less
sharpening, but some is applied anyway, to make the image pleasing.

Hope this helps some. There is a lot more....

kindest regards
Dale
It is possible to make a small fortune in photography, you just
have to start with a large fortune.
--
http://www.pbase.com/harrow
 
I've tried 2 bags from LowePro. One is jsut simply too large and unwieldly, and the other, while smaller, is still larger than it needs to be yet has no pocketrs or dividers for small accessories.

I've recently ordered the Tamrac Digital 6, which I had previously overlooked. I think it may be the best compromise.
Have you tried any of the Lowepro bags?
I am happy with my D-RES40AW, it also has enough room for a 420EX,
I know your not after one that size, but I believe the size below
mine the 30AW might be what your looking for. Not sure though have
not seen one, but might be worth looking into.

Phillip.
Hi Mike,

You still got your Pro1?
I agree with you about the Post processing for DSLR. I do plan on
purchasing one later in the year, but concerned about spending the
rest of the night processing a few hundred photos after a days
photoshoot carrying all that equipment. LOL. I think I will be
exhausted the next day.
I'm not sure, but I thought the 300D had some in-camera settings
designed for those who don't want to post-process??

I still have the Pro1, and it's a mixed bag. I like the build
quality, the resolution, the zoom, and the improved manual focus
control. But I hate the extra bulk and weight and the lousy battery
life.

I've gone through 3 cameras bags and am not happy with any of them.
Nobody seems to make a suitable bag for someone who just wants to
carry the camera plus an extra battery and memory card.
 
I've tried 2 bags from LowePro. One is jsut simply too large and
unwieldly, and the other, while smaller, is still larger than it
needs to be yet has no pocketrs or dividers for small accessories.

I've recently ordered the Tamrac Digital 6, which I had previously
overlooked. I think it may be the best compromise.
I just returned the Digital 6 because it doesn't have enough compartments for all my junk. The camera fits in it, but I'm looking for as small a case as possible that will fit the camera, a polarizing filter in it's case, an extra battery, extra memory cards, and the lens hood. The Digital 6 was close, but just too small. If you don't carry all the junk I do, that case should fit fine.
 
Yes, I must admit the reviews everywhere did sway me to send it
back. What an idiot! You would think I voted for Bush, for being
that dumb and listening to what you hear instead of what you see.
I will like the rebel but I will miss the Pro1.
LOL, well, just vote for Kerry and get a new Pro1 and the world will be back to normal again.

--
> Canon Powershot A80
http://members.chello.se/uz/canon.htm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
"the quality of pics without processing is much better with the Pro 1"

You know something? UTTER RUBBISH

1) if you are intrested in taking Snapshots then buy any XYZ camera cos it wont make a difference. The Only reason for getting a high-end camera is to take PHOTOGRAPHS

2) An SLR and a consumer cam are two different animals. With a SLR you probably wont miss that once-in-a-lifetime shot due to a lagging focus/shutter/EVF. Optical viewfinders are the way to go, one look and i was hooked. No more cheap EVFs which lag to kingdom come for me.

3) Have you seen the noise with all consumer cams? ASA400 on the pro-1 is more noisey than ASA1600 on the rebel.......unless you Like noise, i cant call that quality

4) In-camera processing can easily be turned up on the rebel. A +2 on all settings will easily make the "Quality" increase! This applies more processing than the pro-1 and thus in your opinion the "Quality" would be better

In the taking of Photographs this produces negative results...Why ruin your photographs? 1 min of photoshop will yield far superior results.

If you just want to take snapshots then you dont need to care anyway except perhaps an ixus will suit you better. Small, Cheaper and Idiot-proof.
 
"the quality of pics without processing is much better with the Pro 1"
You know something? UTTER RUBBISH
=
Don't know, yet

=
1) if you are interested in taking Snapshots then buy any XYZ camera
cos it wont make a difference.
===
You don't REALLY believe this, do you?

=
The Only reason for getting a
high-end camera is to take PHOTOGRAPHS
=
Partially true

=
2) An SLR and a consumer cam are two different animals. With a SLR
you probably wont miss that once-in-a-lifetime shot due to a
lagging focus/shutter/EVF.
=
Of course, you WILL miss SOME Once-in-a-lifetime shots, 'cuz you
DON"T HAVE THE CAMERA and bag of lens WITH YOU !

=
Optical viewfinders are the way to go,
one look and i was hooked. No more cheap EVFs which lag to kingdom
come for me.
=
Optical vs EV.
Real time vs info in the viewer.
Don't know , yet.

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3) Have you seen the noise with all consumer cams? ASA400 on the
pro-1 is more noisey than ASA1600 on the rebel.......unless you
Like noise, I can't call that quality
=
No, I haven't compared them, yet.
No question, the smaller sensors will not "capture" the same info,
nor will they require the large bag of lens, bodies, etc.

When I went out on a film "Shoot", I had no problem carrying around a large, heavy bag of lens, filters, flashes, etc.
I just don't want to carry it, ALL the time?

(my old Nikon 995 isn't really all that bad.
If the Canon Pro 1 is a lot better, I'm not gonna complain?)

And yes, I'm thinking about a DSLR, down the road too.
Like I said, I don't mind carrying around that bag of lens, SOMETIMES?
=
4) In-camera processing can easily be turned up on the rebel. A +2
on all settings will easily make the "Quality" increase! This
applies more processing than the pro-1 and thus in your opinion the
"Quality" would be better

In the taking of Photographs this produces negative results...Why
ruin your photographs? 1 min of photoshop will yield far superior
results.
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OK, 1 minute of photoshop, per photo, x 200-300 photos?
That's several hours of "processing"?
I'd rather be out shooting, or just enjoying life.
And, proceessing the 5 0r 10 really good shots. not all of them.
=
If you just want to take snapshots then you dont need to care
anyway except perhaps an ixus will suit you better. Small, Cheaper
and Idiot-proof.
Sometimes, I want "Photos", and sometimes, I want snapshots.
Different tools, different jobs.

Somehow, I think we are comparing a 15 pound bag of apples, vs a 1 pound bag of oranges?

Hawk
 

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