The truth is somewhere out there..

rbexiga

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Hi all,

This phenomena of measurebating is tearing my nerves apart.

Reading Phil's review one gets the impression that E-1 is not that good as almost everyone of you are stating.
Who's telling the truth?
Or the technical issues don't mean a thing after all in the real world?
--
Rui Bexiga Vale,
Lisboa - Portugal
 
... of this forum will turn up the answer you need, but in summary if I interpret the comments correctly the actual image performance out of the camera would not seem to bear much resemblance to what Phil's review would suggest. Additionally, many of the other positive attributes of the camera (build, handling, anti-dust system) don't get much weighting (or even a mention) in the review. Accordingly many have surmised that (if they are being kind) Phil has compared to much more expensive cameras (1Ds, etc) or that (if they are being unkind) Phil has a pro-Canon/anti-Oly bias - take your pick.

FWIW I saw him review the E-20 after the E-10 and it was very lukewarm. Much of what was said was in my experience inconsistent with the actual performance of the camera and while no doubt technically correct I felt his conclusions were seriously biased. As a result, I no longer pay too much attention to what he writes, just note it as useful background information and let the images speak for themselves.

Who's telling the truth? The answer is - there is no truth. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Jim
Hi all,

This phenomena of measurebating is tearing my nerves apart.
Reading Phil's review one gets the impression that E-1 is not that
good as almost everyone of you are stating.
Who's telling the truth?
Or the technical issues don't mean a thing after all in the real
world?
--
Rui Bexiga Vale,
Lisboa - Portugal
 
Rui,

" We all prefer the comfort of opinion rather than the discomfort of thought"

From a quote I read somewhere. Anyway we all arrive at the 'truth' someday, for some, it is through 'the bitterness of poor quality lingering long after the sweetness of a cheap price' (another quote, I'm afraid).

Fact is Rui the best camera is the one you've got. Just learn to love it.

all the best,

Malcolm
 
Clearly, If you measure the "goodness" of the E-1 by listening to those of us who own one, you will note a considerable difference between those reviews and the one that Phil did.

I, too, believe that some of Phil's reviews are not objective. I can also tell you that the E-1 is my 6th Oly digital camera, and I have seen his review bias on nearly every model that I have owned.

My guess is that either Oly angered him for some reason, or, "others" pay him to be subjective when reviewing certain competitors.

In any case, I am among the growing number of photogs that pay no attention to his reviews.

Do like many of us did . . . . . listen to the owners of whatever cameras you're interested in. AND, look at lots of images, and, ask lots of questions !!

One more word of advice . . . DON'T make a visit to your local E-1 store 'til you're ready, cuz when you do, whatever "-bating" you're up to will cease at that moment !!

Hava good day . . . .

T. DUM

'The most profound change occurs just at the edge of . . . . CHAOS !!'
 
cammera is really good
but it is not a magic wand it has it's limitataions

first of all 14-55 lense dose not have ED glass and constant apreture which is a bummer

cammera is noisy.....

in my camera if you look hard unto lcd you will see some kind of interference (not alot but litle bit)

collors are grate, rendition is wounderfull build quvality is an awsome one lense is compact, and light weight

etc...
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6159152/
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6407494/
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6300762/
here are some exempels

btw noise at 800 is good, it can be compared to the
Clearly, If you measure the "goodness" of the E-1 by listening to
those of us who own one, you will note a considerable difference
between those reviews and the one that Phil did.

I, too, believe that some of Phil's reviews are not objective. I
can also tell you that the E-1 is my 6th Oly digital camera, and I
have seen his review bias on nearly every model that I have owned.

My guess is that either Oly angered him for some reason, or,
"others" pay him to be subjective when reviewing certain
competitors.

In any case, I am among the growing number of photogs that pay no
attention to his reviews.

Do like many of us did . . . . . listen to the owners of whatever
cameras you're interested in. AND, look at lots of images, and,
ask lots of questions !!

One more word of advice . . . DON'T make a visit to your local
E-1 store 'til you're ready, cuz when you do, whatever "-bating"
you're up to will cease at that moment !!

Hava good day . . . .

T. DUM

'The most profound change occurs just at the edge of . . . . CHAOS !!'
 
cammera is really good
but it is not a magic wand it has it's limitataions
first of all 14-55 lense dose not have ED glass and constant
apreture which is a bummer

cammera is noisy.....
Which camera is noisy) The E-1? I have owned many cameras and the E-1 is one of the most quiet ones of them all!
in my camera if you look hard unto lcd you will see some kind of
interference (not alot but litle bit)

collors are grate, rendition is wounderfull build quvality is an
awsome one lense is compact, and light weight

etc...
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6159152/
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6407494/
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6300762/
here are some exempels

btw noise at 800 is good, it can be compared to the
Clearly, If you measure the "goodness" of the E-1 by listening to
those of us who own one, you will note a considerable difference
between those reviews and the one that Phil did.

I, too, believe that some of Phil's reviews are not objective. I
can also tell you that the E-1 is my 6th Oly digital camera, and I
have seen his review bias on nearly every model that I have owned.

My guess is that either Oly angered him for some reason, or,
"others" pay him to be subjective when reviewing certain
competitors.

In any case, I am among the growing number of photogs that pay no
attention to his reviews.

Do like many of us did . . . . . listen to the owners of whatever
cameras you're interested in. AND, look at lots of images, and,
ask lots of questions !!

One more word of advice . . . DON'T make a visit to your local
E-1 store 'til you're ready, cuz when you do, whatever "-bating"
you're up to will cease at that moment !!

Hava good day . . . .

T. DUM

'The most profound change occurs just at the edge of . . . . CHAOS !!'
--
Raymond
http://home.online.no/~rwardena
 
Who's telling the truth?
Or the technical issues don't mean a thing after all in the real
world?
--
Rui Bexiga Vale,
Lisboa - Portugal
Hi,

I actually believe that EVERYONE is telling the truth as they see it. I believe Phil to be extremely unbiased. It is just human nature to look for conspiracy when someone challenges our "known" beliefs. I also don't think the overbloswn claims of Oly's marketing helped anyone and fueled the fires.

As to measurements, it reminds of debates between those audiophiles (such as myself) who LOVE the sound of tube equipment in spite of the fact that measurements favor solid state. I remember the cover of Stereophile magazine years ago when comparing a Cary 805 with some also high end SS amplifier stating "if one of these is right, the other must be wrong"

The point is that measurements are an objective way of looking at something in an image which attempts to measure how we PERCEIVE AN IMAGE. The actual perception may have much or little to do with the actual measurement. For example I do not doubt that the noise from an E1 may be measurably greater than that from a 10D or 1D, but is it so low that one cannot notice the difference in the actual finished PRINTED image. Also many photographers these days are printing only a small number of their images, prefering to look at them on monitors, perhaps at sizes unsupported by the number of pixels. how does this affect perception? There is minimal comment about the character of the noise. Is it "clumpy", more in one color channel, or neutral in color?

Enough philosophy, I have been a photographer for almost 40 years using everthing from Leica, Hasselblad, Rollei, Nikon, Olympus, Mamiya and Canon. I have been doing digital before there were available digital SLR and have owned 4 Canon dslr's. The bottom line is because of the ergonomics, weight, balance, lens quality I simply get better photos using the E1. Because of these factors I tend to actually have it with me most of the time (something not true when I was using the 1D as my everyday camera.)

The bottom line is, if it is within the capabilities of the E1 (not requiring 1D level autofocus, 8 fps shooting speed, etc) I doubt anyone could tell the difference between good quality, well composed and well printed images obtained with a 10D, D100, 1D, etc. I do not doubt that one could see differences with the 1Ds printed at 20x30 but that is a 7K monster. By using the E1 with 11-22, I simply get more well composed photos that print beautifully to at least 13x19 than i did with my 1D or with my 10D FOR ME!!!. I still own my Canon glass and will probably try out the 1DII with my 16-35 (about the same range) but the E1 is just a very good camera for a reasonable price. Don't get me wrong, I would prefer higher resolution, lower noise, less artifact and i am glad (I think) that Phil's reviews point some of these things out... I think (lol) so I can look for them in my images and consider them BEFORE I make a purchase. The fact is that I either don't see the noise spoken of, or it is less bothersome in character than that of some other cameras (I think this is the case). As for the resolution, It doesn't appear to be a problem in real images. The simple fact is that all cameras are compromises and I find that the design compromises fit my needs better in this combo, than almost anything available to me now.

I would simply use all reviews as a guide and try the item yourself. Try not to be too jingoisitic about any particular brand. See what meets your needs and fits right in your hands and takes pictures acceptable to you,,, There is NO perfect camera. As my father use to say... "Thats why they make chocolate AND vanilla"

Hope this rambling essay helps and Good Luck

Ed
 
As I recall, it was Sir Henry Royce who came up with the phrase:

"the quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"

Given the price of his vehicles, which would take a very long time to forget, the quality must have been off the scale.

Really, the E1 isn't that much more expensive than the plastic flyers. By the time you have put on an equivalent lens, it's only a few hundred dollars more, if that.

I stick with Olympus because I've had four of their digital cameras in the past, and all of them have performed magnificently. Besides, I just don't like plastic cameras. They feel, well, flimsy.

I was trying out a friend's D70 the other day, and reached the conclusion that I'd have a hard time giving up even my old E20 for this.
 
I ment the noise at pictures. I love the camera, but I would not shoot pictures above 800 ISO....

I wish we had access to constant apreture zoom, this would solve the issue
cammera is really good
but it is not a magic wand it has it's limitataions
first of all 14-55 lense dose not have ED glass and constant
apreture which is a bummer

cammera is noisy.....
Which camera is noisy) The E-1? I have owned many cameras and the
E-1 is one of the most quiet ones of them all!
in my camera if you look hard unto lcd you will see some kind of
interference (not alot but litle bit)

collors are grate, rendition is wounderfull build quvality is an
awsome one lense is compact, and light weight

etc...
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6159152/
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6407494/
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6300762/
here are some exempels

btw noise at 800 is good, it can be compared to the
Clearly, If you measure the "goodness" of the E-1 by listening to
those of us who own one, you will note a considerable difference
between those reviews and the one that Phil did.

I, too, believe that some of Phil's reviews are not objective. I
can also tell you that the E-1 is my 6th Oly digital camera, and I
have seen his review bias on nearly every model that I have owned.

My guess is that either Oly angered him for some reason, or,
"others" pay him to be subjective when reviewing certain
competitors.

In any case, I am among the growing number of photogs that pay no
attention to his reviews.

Do like many of us did . . . . . listen to the owners of whatever
cameras you're interested in. AND, look at lots of images, and,
ask lots of questions !!

One more word of advice . . . DON'T make a visit to your local
E-1 store 'til you're ready, cuz when you do, whatever "-bating"
you're up to will cease at that moment !!

Hava good day . . . .

T. DUM

'The most profound change occurs just at the edge of . . . . CHAOS !!'
--
Raymond
http://home.online.no/~rwardena
 
Oops, sorry, Abadona, my fault (not easy all the time to do everything in Englsih here). But the kind of noise you are talking about is not bad, either!
I wish we had access to constant apreture zoom, this would solve
the issue
cammera is really good
but it is not a magic wand it has it's limitataions
first of all 14-55 lense dose not have ED glass and constant
apreture which is a bummer

cammera is noisy.....
Which camera is noisy) The E-1? I have owned many cameras and the
E-1 is one of the most quiet ones of them all!
in my camera if you look hard unto lcd you will see some kind of
interference (not alot but litle bit)

collors are grate, rendition is wounderfull build quvality is an
awsome one lense is compact, and light weight

etc...
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6159152/
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6407494/
http://www.deviantart.com/view/6300762/
here are some exempels

btw noise at 800 is good, it can be compared to the
Clearly, If you measure the "goodness" of the E-1 by listening to
those of us who own one, you will note a considerable difference
between those reviews and the one that Phil did.

I, too, believe that some of Phil's reviews are not objective. I
can also tell you that the E-1 is my 6th Oly digital camera, and I
have seen his review bias on nearly every model that I have owned.

My guess is that either Oly angered him for some reason, or,
"others" pay him to be subjective when reviewing certain
competitors.

In any case, I am among the growing number of photogs that pay no
attention to his reviews.

Do like many of us did . . . . . listen to the owners of whatever
cameras you're interested in. AND, look at lots of images, and,
ask lots of questions !!

One more word of advice . . . DON'T make a visit to your local
E-1 store 'til you're ready, cuz when you do, whatever "-bating"
you're up to will cease at that moment !!

Hava good day . . . .

T. DUM

'The most profound change occurs just at the edge of . . . . CHAOS !!'
--
Raymond
http://home.online.no/~rwardena
--
Raymond
http://home.online.no/~rwardena
 
Rui,

I own and use an Oly E-10 and like the camera. But want to upgrade to a newer camera this year. Like you I have been reading and viewing all the data on the new digital SLRs I can find. A lot of it comes from this site. I went and used the new Nikon D70 and have seen several others in this class. I keep coming back to the pictures I seen here in the two forums.

I go to the D70 forum and look at the photos there. There are many good photos taken by good photographers. Then look here and compare the images. I know that the Oly E-1 cost $700 more than the D70 so you should see a difference. But the sharp images of the D70 all look cold to me. There is a gray quality about all the images. They look technically correct, but have no life. It's very hard to explain, but look for yourself. The E-1 photos, some from pros and others from folks like myself that are just learning the trade, all have a life in the color that is wonderful. Not over saturation of color, that would be bad, but a life in the color. The images are so different. You can read the reviews, but the output of a camera is the measure of the tool.

So I'll stay with the Oly product somehow. I can buy the camera, but the lens are out of my non professional price range. I'm waiting to see if the lower cost camera also has a lower cost lens line-up. If that happened, you'll see pictures from me here that have that same color quality about them someday. Good luck in your search. Louis
Hi all,

This phenomena of measurebating is tearing my nerves apart.
Reading Phil's review one gets the impression that E-1 is not that
good as almost everyone of you are stating.
Who's telling the truth?
Or the technical issues don't mean a thing after all in the real
world?
--
Rui Bexiga Vale,
Lisboa - Portugal
--
Pbase home page: http://www.pbase.com/lwise/
 

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