URGENT INFO - A2 only performing as 5MP camera

I've had my A2 for just about a month and have, apart from a few shots on the first day, been shooting exclusively in RAW mode.

I'm off on holiday in the next couple of days and, partly because of storage, have decided to shoot in JPEG Extra Fine. According to the manual, the file size should be circa 7933kb at 3264x size. I'm getting 4067kb and, most weirdly, whilst the counter is showing 7 shots on a 64kb card, the camera is giving 15 or 16 depending on subject with the counter staying on a given number for 2 shots.

If I go to Fine, I'm getting a similar reduction from the expected file size.

Has anyone else CHECKED the size of their JPEG files? Has anyone found similar. I've spoken to the retailer who is mystified but I can't get the camera back to him due to a postal strike as, for insurance purposes, he wants me to use their preferred courier which involves the Irish Postal Service.

Apart from a faulty/wrong chip, has anyone any ideas what could be causing this? Am I missing something elementary?

I've checked the PDF manual and scoured the menus without success.
--
PhilB

A jpeg with a size of 8MByte seems ridiculous, that's almost no jpeg at all.

Comparing the filesizes of 2 to 2.5MByte for a D7, this would suggest 3 to 4MByte for an A2, wich is conform your own findings.

Probably an error in the manual.

The number of pics taken is not a fixed value due to jpeg compression, but the drift from the presetvalue should not be so big, it should be 30+-2, or 100+-4, something in that region. A future firmware update will certainly fix that, I do not think retunring the camera is a wise idea. A firmware update on early D7's also changed the mean file size for a jpeg, thus indicating different number of free pictures.

Ronald

Alias said:

I've had my A2 for just about a month and have, apart from a few
shots on the first day, been shooting exclusively in RAW mode.

I'm off on holiday in the next couple of days and, partly because
of storage, have decided to shoot in JPEG Extra Fine. According to
the manual, the file size should be circa 7933kb at 3264x size.
I'm getting 4067kb and, most weirdly, whilst the counter is showing
7 shots on a 64kb card, the camera is giving 15 or 16 depending on
subject with the counter staying on a given number for 2 shots.

If I go to Fine, I'm getting a similar reduction from the expected
file size.

Has anyone else CHECKED the size of their JPEG files? Has anyone
found similar. I've spoken to the retailer who is mystified but I
can't get the camera back to him due to a postal strike as, for
insurance purposes, he wants me to use their preferred courier
which involves the Irish Postal Service.

Apart from a faulty/wrong chip, has anyone any ideas what could be
causing this? Am I missing something elementary?

I've checked the PDF manual and scoured the menus without success.
--
PhilB

Click to expand...

You could do a filesize-checks with the camera on ISO800. Noise increases the filesize bigtime!

Ronald Schollaerts said:

A jpeg with a size of 8MByte seems ridiculous, that's almost no
jpeg at all.
Comparing the filesizes of 2 to 2.5MByte for a D7, this would
suggest 3 to 4MByte for an A2, wich is conform your own findings.

Probably an error in the manual.

Click to expand...

If it is an error, then the error is perpetuated throughout the table on Page 83. The file sizes for extra fine are given as:

3264x2448 7923kb, 3264x2176 7056kb, 2560x1920 4902kb, 2080x1560kb 3289kb, 1600x12001995kb, 640x480 420kb.

TIFF files are shown in 3264x2448 as being 23529kb and 2 should therefore fit on a 64mb card. That is working fine.

Ronald S said:

The number of pics taken is not a fixed value due to jpeg
compression, but the drift from the presetvalue should not be so
big, it should be 30+-2, or 100+-4, something in that region. A
future firmware update will certainly fix that, I do not think
retunring the camera is a wise idea. A firmware update on early
D7's also changed the mean file size for a jpeg, thus indicating
different number of free pictures.

Click to expand...

I appreciate that but approximately doubling the number of frames available is well out of kilter.

--
PhilB

Stefan V said:

You could do a filesize-checks with the camera on ISO800. Noise
increases the filesize bigtime!

Click to expand...

At ISO 800 I'm getting 10 shots between 4950kb and 5345kb.

Something is obviously well out of kilter.
--
PhilB

Hi,

I shoot mainly in Extra Fine. I haven't thought about the filesize till you mentioned it here. I just checked my images and I get the same result as yo, but the file size vary quite a lot. Here's three exemples:



original file size: 6.29 mb



original file size: 5. 89 mb



original file size: 4.45 mb

I also compared with the file sizes from the shots I took with my former camera (7Hi) and found that in JPEG Extra fine the file sizes are approx 1 mb smaller.

I don't know if this message is very helpful, but at least you know my A2 gives the same file sizes as yours.

Fred

Alias said:

I've had my A2 for just about a month and have, apart from a few
shots on the first day, been shooting exclusively in RAW mode.

I'm off on holiday in the next couple of days and, partly because
of storage, have decided to shoot in JPEG Extra Fine. According to
the manual, the file size should be circa 7933kb at 3264x size.
I'm getting 4067kb and, most weirdly, whilst the counter is showing
7 shots on a 64kb card, the camera is giving 15 or 16 depending on
subject with the counter staying on a given number for 2 shots.

If I go to Fine, I'm getting a similar reduction from the expected
file size.

Has anyone else CHECKED the size of their JPEG files? Has anyone
found similar. I've spoken to the retailer who is mystified but I
can't get the camera back to him due to a postal strike as, for
insurance purposes, he wants me to use their preferred courier
which involves the Irish Postal Service.

Apart from a faulty/wrong chip, has anyone any ideas what could be
causing this? Am I missing something elementary?

I've checked the PDF manual and scoured the menus without success.
--
PhilB

Click to expand...

File Size: Why don´t you transfer the JPEG-pics to a computer and check the file size on the explorer ?
Cheer,
Klaus

Alias said:

Stefan V said:

You could do a filesize-checks with the camera on ISO800. Noise
increases the filesize bigtime!

Click to expand...

At ISO 800 I'm getting 10 shots between 4950kb and 5345kb.

Something is obviously well out of kilter.
--
PhilB

Click to expand...

--
Klaus

fredman said:

I shoot mainly in Extra Fine. I haven't thought about the filesize
till you mentioned it here. I just checked my images and I get the
same result as yo, but the file size vary quite a lot. Here's three
exemples:



original file size: 6.29 mb



original file size: 5. 89 mb



original file size: 4.45 mb

I also compared with the file sizes from the shots I took with my
former camera (7Hi) and found that in JPEG Extra fine the file
sizes are approx 1 mb smaller.

I don't know if this message is very helpful, but at least you know
my A2 gives the same file sizes as yours.

Fred

Alias said:

I've had my A2 for just about a month and have, apart from a few
shots on the first day, been shooting exclusively in RAW mode.

I'm off on holiday in the next couple of days and, partly because
of storage, have decided to shoot in JPEG Extra Fine. According to
the manual, the file size should be circa 7933kb at 3264x size.
I'm getting 4067kb and, most weirdly, whilst the counter is showing
7 shots on a 64kb card, the camera is giving 15 or 16 depending on
subject with the counter staying on a given number for 2 shots.

If I go to Fine, I'm getting a similar reduction from the expected
file size.

Has anyone else CHECKED the size of their JPEG files? Has anyone
found similar. I've spoken to the retailer who is mystified but I
can't get the camera back to him due to a postal strike as, for
insurance purposes, he wants me to use their preferred courier
which involves the Irish Postal Service.

Apart from a faulty/wrong chip, has anyone any ideas what could be
causing this? Am I missing something elementary?

I've checked the PDF manual and scoured the menus without success.
--
PhilB

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with this problem. Last Sunday was the first day I had a chance to shoot a full card full of pics, with the same settings, Extra Fine Jpeg and a ful 8 megs, the camera said I should get 31 pics on a 256 meg card, I got 49. Which figures out to 5megs and Fine Jpeg.

--
Morris

..and the sample shots from the A2 on Steve's digicams have the same file size.

fredman said:

I shoot mainly in Extra Fine. I haven't thought about the filesize
till you mentioned it here. I just checked my images and I get the
same result as yo, but the file size vary quite a lot. Here's three
exemples:



original file size: 6.29 mb



original file size: 5. 89 mb



original file size: 4.45 mb

I also compared with the file sizes from the shots I took with my
former camera (7Hi) and found that in JPEG Extra fine the file
sizes are approx 1 mb smaller.

I don't know if this message is very helpful, but at least you know
my A2 gives the same file sizes as yours.

Fred

Alias said:

I've had my A2 for just about a month and have, apart from a few
shots on the first day, been shooting exclusively in RAW mode.

I'm off on holiday in the next couple of days and, partly because
of storage, have decided to shoot in JPEG Extra Fine. According to
the manual, the file size should be circa 7933kb at 3264x size.
I'm getting 4067kb and, most weirdly, whilst the counter is showing
7 shots on a 64kb card, the camera is giving 15 or 16 depending on
subject with the counter staying on a given number for 2 shots.

If I go to Fine, I'm getting a similar reduction from the expected
file size.

Has anyone else CHECKED the size of their JPEG files? Has anyone
found similar. I've spoken to the retailer who is mystified but I
can't get the camera back to him due to a postal strike as, for
insurance purposes, he wants me to use their preferred courier
which involves the Irish Postal Service.

Apart from a faulty/wrong chip, has anyone any ideas what could be
causing this? Am I missing something elementary?

I've checked the PDF manual and scoured the menus without success.
--
PhilB

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

It's OK, those are maximum (worst case) file size examples given in the manual. JPG format file sizes depend on the detail and color resolution of the picture being recorded.

If you were recording a 5MP image the size would be 2400x1800 and not 3600x2800.

Paul

fredman said:

fredman said:

I shoot mainly in Extra Fine. I haven't thought about the filesize
till you mentioned it here. I just checked my images and I get the
same result as yo, but the file size vary quite a lot. Here's three
exemples:



original file size: 6.29 mb



original file size: 5. 89 mb



original file size: 4.45 mb

I also compared with the file sizes from the shots I took with my
former camera (7Hi) and found that in JPEG Extra fine the file
sizes are approx 1 mb smaller.

I don't know if this message is very helpful, but at least you know
my A2 gives the same file sizes as yours.

Fred

Alias said:

I've had my A2 for just about a month and have, apart from a few
shots on the first day, been shooting exclusively in RAW mode.

I'm off on holiday in the next couple of days and, partly because
of storage, have decided to shoot in JPEG Extra Fine. According to
the manual, the file size should be circa 7933kb at 3264x size.
I'm getting 4067kb and, most weirdly, whilst the counter is showing
7 shots on a 64kb card, the camera is giving 15 or 16 depending on
subject with the counter staying on a given number for 2 shots.

If I go to Fine, I'm getting a similar reduction from the expected
file size.

Has anyone else CHECKED the size of their JPEG files? Has anyone
found similar. I've spoken to the retailer who is mystified but I
can't get the camera back to him due to a postal strike as, for
insurance purposes, he wants me to use their preferred courier
which involves the Irish Postal Service.

Apart from a faulty/wrong chip, has anyone any ideas what could be
causing this? Am I missing something elementary?

I've checked the PDF manual and scoured the menus without success.
--
PhilB

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

stocki said:

File Size: Why don´t you transfer the JPEG-pics to a computer and
check the file size on the explorer ?
Cheer,
Klaus

Click to expand...

Exactly what I did
--
PhilB

fredman said:

Hi,

I shoot mainly in Extra Fine. I haven't thought about the filesize
till you mentioned it here. I just checked my images and I get the
same result as yo, but the file size vary quite a lot. Here's three
exemples:

I also compared with the file sizes from the shots I took with my
former camera (7Hi) and found that in JPEG Extra fine the file
sizes are approx 1 mb smaller.

I don't know if this message is very helpful, but at least you know
my A2 gives the same file sizes as yours.

Fred

Click to expand...

That's very interesting. What does your frame counter show, and does it give you approx 2 shots per change of number?
--
PhilB

PDM said:

It's OK, those are maximum (worst case) file size examples given in
the manual. JPG format file sizes depend on the detail and color
resolution of the picture being recorded.

If you were recording a 5MP image the size would be 2400x1800 and
not 3600x2800.

Paul

Click to expand...

Surely you can record any size of output at any given MP range. Obviously a 3600x2800 at 5MP would potentially have less resolution and definition than at 8MP and the camera allows JPEG extra fine at the small size anyway.

I'm in correspondence with Jim Angelo in the USA and his A2 seems to be handling CF cards correctly with the right number of frames.

Whatever else, the frame counter should not be circa 100% out.

I'm busy for the next 3-4 hours but would be grateful for any further comments, ideas or firm evidence that what is going on is either correct or not,

Thanks to all contributors so far,

PhilB

I have a 512 mb card, and the counter shows 62, but I can take several more photos than that. I don't know exactly how many more, but not twice as many. Rather somewhere between 80-100 shots.

Fred

Alias said:

That's very interesting. What does your frame counter show, and
does it give you approx 2 shots per change of number?
--
PhilB

Click to expand...

I am delighted to hear that the file size reported in the manual is the worst case scenerio rather than the average size. This means that I will be able to fit more JPEG images on my cards than I originally had thought. As far as the counter acuracy, I'm sure Minolta would prefer that the counter be conservative and indicate fewer pictures than what you may actually get (much better than the other way around). Being off by 80% is probably greater than they desire and should be simple to correct in a firmware upgrade.

Dave

Alias said:

Alias said:

fredman wrote:
Hi,> >
I shoot mainly in Extra Fine. I haven't thought about the filesize
till you mentioned it here. I just checked my images and I get the
same result as yo, but the file size vary quite a lot. Here's three
exemples:> >
I also compared with the file sizes from the shots I took with my
former camera (7Hi) and found that in JPEG Extra fine the file
sizes are approx 1 mb smaller.> >
I don't know if this message is very helpful, but at least you know
my A2 gives the same file sizes as yours.> >
Fred

Click to expand...

That's very interesting. What does your frame counter show, and
does it give you approx 2 shots per change of number?> --
PhilB

Click to expand...

I'm not sure we are addressing the real issue. The issue is not what size a file is. It is that Phil's A2 is reading his card correctly and listing the correct (approx) number of pictures in the frame counter. That's where things go awry. He gets twice as many pictures as the book and the frame counter indicate. Twice as many!

Here are my thoughts that I e-mailed him when he and I first discovered this anomaly.

" That is really weird, Phil. I just filled two 256MB cards the other day. Shooting 8MP and a combination of Fine and X-Fine I got just about what the book and the counter say - around 50 pics per card. I checked the cards at 5MP in both the A2 and the 7Hi and also checked some folders where I stored the entire contents of cards used in the 7Hi. All are as they should be. My first thought was that your card was actually a mislabeled. But it sounds as if it is actually 64 MB as that's what the camera is reading.

If you are getting significantly more pictures on a card, could your camera, even though it is set and counting for an 8MP shot, actually be somehow taking a 5MP (or less) picture? I know you don't have a printed manual, but in mine, on page 83 it says that an 8 MP photo that is taken in X-Fine will on average produce a 7,923KB file and at Fine the file should be 4,022KB. I have checked many of mine and they are right in this ballpark. Not exact, of course, as some subjects compress more than others. At 5MP the file size should be 4,924KB for X-Fine and 2.520 for Fine. This is what both my A2 and 7Hi deliver.

All of my digital cameras have been Minoltas 404s. 7i, Xt, 7Hi and now the A2. In every instance, the camera read the card as it should and the card delivered that number of pictures (sometimes 2 more sometimes 2 less but never 100% more!) that the camera and the book called for.
I'd really be interested in knowing what is going on."
Jim

Hi Jim,

If I understand you correctly, if you put a 256 mb card in your A2 and set it to JPEG extra fine, your countersays you can shoot 50 pictures. If so, there is something odd going on, coz when I just put a 256 mb card in my A2 it says I can take 31 photos in extra fine.

Fred

Jim Angelo said:

I'm not sure we are addressing the real issue. The issue is not
what size a file is. It is that Phil's A2 is reading his card
correctly and listing the correct (approx) number of pictures in
the frame counter. That's where things go awry. He gets twice
as many pictures as the book and the frame counter indicate.
Twice as many!
Here are my thoughts that I e-mailed him when he and I first
discovered this anomaly.
" That is really weird, Phil. I just filled two 256MB cards
the other day. Shooting 8MP and a combination of Fine and X-Fine
I got just about what the book and the counter say - around 50
pics per card. I checked the cards at 5MP in both the A2 and the
7Hi and also checked some folders where I stored the entire
contents of cards used in the 7Hi. All are as they should be. My
first thought was that your card was actually a mislabeled. But it
sounds as if it is actually 64 MB as that's what the camera is
reading.
If you are getting significantly more pictures on a card, could
your camera, even though it is set and counting for an 8MP shot,
actually be somehow taking a 5MP (or less) picture? I know you
don't have a printed manual, but in mine, on page 83 it says that
an 8 MP photo that is taken in X-Fine will on average produce a
7,923KB file and at Fine the file should be 4,022KB. I have
checked many of mine and they are right in this ballpark. Not
exact, of course, as some subjects compress more than others. At
5MP the file size should be 4,924KB for X-Fine and 2.520 for Fine.
This is what both my A2 and 7Hi deliver.
All of my digital cameras have been Minoltas 404s. 7i, Xt, 7Hi and
now the A2. In every instance, the camera read the card as it
should and the card delivered that number of pictures (sometimes 2
more sometimes 2 less but never 100% more!) that the camera and the
book called for.
I'd really be interested in knowing what is going on." Jim

Click to expand...

Alias said:

Surely you can record any size of output at any given MP range.
Obviously a 3600x2800 at 5MP would potentially have less resolution
and definition than at 8MP and the camera allows JPEG extra fine at
the small size anyway.

Click to expand...

I don't understand what you are talking about. The output size IS the MP range. 3264x2448 = 8MP. 2560x1920 = 5 MP. The size of the output file simply reflects how much the file is compressed, not its native resolution.

Take a look at phils resolution charts for the A2 and Pro 1. They are both shot at 8mp resolution, and they are both about 2.5 megabyte files.

Relax

I think so to. I've been around checking the file sizes of the test photos posted on different digicam sites on the net, and the all show about the same file size. But in that case the counter is way off, since you can take approx 75% more pictures than is calculated by the camera.

Fred

Alex Permit said:

I don't understand what you are talking about. The output size IS
the MP range. 3264x2448 = 8MP. 2560x1920 = 5 MP. The size of
the output file simply reflects how much the file is compressed,
not its native resolution.

Take a look at phils resolution charts for the A2 and Pro 1. They
are both shot at 8mp resolution, and they are both about 2.5
megabyte files.

Relax

Click to expand...

it needs to be understood that JPG is a loss compression format. It will reduce the size of the file to whatever it decides to for a given picture at a given quality setting. relax is right - and read up on JPG compression.

Paul

Alex Permit said:

Alias said:

Surely you can record any size of output at any given MP range.
Obviously a 3600x2800 at 5MP would potentially have less resolution
and definition than at 8MP and the camera allows JPEG extra fine at
the small size anyway.

Click to expand...

I don't understand what you are talking about. The output size IS
the MP range. 3264x2448 = 8MP. 2560x1920 = 5 MP. The size of
the output file simply reflects how much the file is compressed,
not its native resolution.

Take a look at phils resolution charts for the A2 and Pro 1. They
are both shot at 8mp resolution, and they are both about 2.5
megabyte files.

Relax

Click to expand...