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Just maybe he was helping you prove how Canon's design decision for the 1Ds and 1D and Kodak's decision for the 14/n, et al are all merely based on whatever they could get from Sony like you suggested for the D70. Yep. That must be it. Canon churns out a $8K flagship DSLR and went w/ weak AA filter because Sony forced it on them. Same w/ the 1D. Oops. Who forced it on Kodak?? That's pretty dumb of Kodak to force it on themselves.

You are soooo right about Nikon's decision w/ the D70 just like you were soooo right about Nikon's "highly active marketing machine" that's equal to Canon's:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=7899626

Yep. That's it.

Man
T3 said:
David Chin said:
... to do the whole reading thing again from the top Slooowwwly,
starting with the original post, seeing where you came in, then
come back here again and at least discuss things with a little more
intelligence. Did I have even have to teach you such basics?
Click to expand...
Yep, I just read through my posts again. Yep, I didn't mention
anything about moire from one camera or the other. Yep, I was just
talking about the other reasonable possibility for the difference
in sensor performance of the D70. Yes, I stayed consistent
throughout. Then suddenly, some guy jumps in showing me moire
samples from the 1Ds, S2, and 14n. I just figured the poor guy
meant to reply to someone else's message because it was a bit out
of context from what I had been discussing. On the other hand,
maybe he was just showing me how far behind Nikon is in their own
sensor development compared to what Canon, Fuji, and Kodak were
doing.
Click to expand...
--
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ 'the light of the world.' (John 8:12)
See profile for more + some basic photog resources.
As usual, YMMV + caveat emptor.
Contact me at [email protected]
Indulge my fancies at http://www.pbase.com/mandnwong
 
T3 said:
Man-Fai Wong said:
Last time I saw old T3 around (before this thread), I believe he
was spouting something about Nikon having some sort of big
marketing machine equal to Canon's. Well, we know how much he
really knows about Nikon marketing at least... :-)
Click to expand...
Their's a big difference between having successful marketing versus
not having marketing at all. Believe me, Nikon has a dedicated
marketing department just like Canon. And believe me, every
photography magazine I open up has Nikon marketing in it. The
whole notion that Nikon is simply like no other company is a
falsehood that seems to be born of a desire to put Nikon into some
hallowed class of its own. In fact, most of the people here have
their devotions in part born of Nikon's successful capacity to
market its name and reputation through the years. Furthermore, my
arguments have mentioned nothing about marketing in the vein of
this thread. It merely serves to bring to light the practical
nature of many product decisions, and to remind us all that Nikon
is simply just another company with the same mundane challenges of
any other company. Nikon is not divinity.
Click to expand...
--
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ 'the light of the world.' (John 8:12)
See profile for more + some basic photog resources.
As usual, YMMV + caveat emptor.
Contact me at [email protected]
Indulge my fancies at http://www.pbase.com/mandnwong
 
Canon and Kodak do not source their sensors from Sony. Canon, in fact, makes their own sensors. The point I have been trying to make has been that these decisions are usually practical in nature, and every company tries to make decisions to the best of their ability to make a product as best they can, given the limitations they have. Canon does they best they can, Kodak does the best they can, Nikon does the best they can. I'm sorry that doesn't sound as erudite and glamorous as you'd like it to be. And with the D70, Nikon did the best they could, within the confines of working with a third party vendor and a very stringent price-point requirement. To embellish the mundane may help you sleep better at night by injecting a level of divine prescience into the D70, but sometimes it's just what it is: a little DSLR with a little moire. What's the big deal?
Man-Fai Wong said:
You are soooo right about Nikon's decision w/ the D70 just like you
were soooo right about Nikon's "highly active marketing machine"
that's equal to Canon's:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=7899626

Yep. That's it.

Man
T3 said:
David Chin said:
... to do the whole reading thing again from the top Slooowwwly,
starting with the original post, seeing where you came in, then
come back here again and at least discuss things with a little more
intelligence. Did I have even have to teach you such basics?
Click to expand...
Yep, I just read through my posts again. Yep, I didn't mention
anything about moire from one camera or the other. Yep, I was just
talking about the other reasonable possibility for the difference
in sensor performance of the D70. Yes, I stayed consistent
throughout. Then suddenly, some guy jumps in showing me moire
samples from the 1Ds, S2, and 14n. I just figured the poor guy
meant to reply to someone else's message because it was a bit out
of context from what I had been discussing. On the other hand,
maybe he was just showing me how far behind Nikon is in their own
sensor development compared to what Canon, Fuji, and Kodak were
doing.
Click to expand...
--
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ 'the light of the world.'
(John 8:12)
See profile for more + some basic photog resources.
As usual, YMMV + caveat emptor.
Contact me at [email protected]
Indulge my fancies at http://www.pbase.com/mandnwong
Click to expand...
 
I would interject that the original message of this entire thread is a much more eloquent example of spin doctoring on the moire issue. Frankly, as I have stated, all DSLR's have moire. Some have a little more than others. But to spin it into all this hallowed philosophical "leaving the untainted data for future generations" stuff is...spin! So if you want to be critical of spin, it is only fair that you apply it equally.
 
... I sleep well at night knowing how the D70 compares to the 1D/1DS in the moire department.
T3 said:
To embellish the mundane may help you sleep better at night by
injecting a level of divine prescience into the D70, but sometimes
it's just what it is: a little DSLR with a little moire. What's
the big deal?
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David

Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
 
... so we're keeping a little balance here. Just in case lurkers think that only the D70 has moire.
T3 said:
I would interject that the original message of this entire thread
is a much more eloquent example of spin doctoring on the moire
issue. Frankly, as I have stated, all DSLR's have moire. Some have
a little more than others. But to spin it into all this hallowed
philosophical "leaving the untainted data for future generations"
stuff is...spin! So if you want to be critical of spin, it is only
fair that you apply it equally.
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David

Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
 
Exactly. So why all of this hoolabaloo about "analogies to digital audio" and such. Every DSLR exhibits moire at some point or another. Some exhibit a little more than others. Every camera has some limitation. No camera is perfect. All this myth-making about the D70 is just spinning the moire issue into a strategic design philsophy!!! LOL. I guess your reading comprehension skills are finally coming around. As I said originally: "It may not be as complex and intricate as your theory [ie. spin], but sometimes the simplest explanations are the truest. Sometimes we want to attribute some greater meaning or nobler cause to what we see in the world."
David Chin said:
T3 said:
To embellish the mundane may help you sleep better at night by
injecting a level of divine prescience into the D70, but sometimes
it's just what it is: a little DSLR with a little moire. What's
the big deal?
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David
Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
Click to expand...
 
Well, you're barking up the wrong tree. I never said the D70 was the only camera that had moire. In fact, I was saying the contrary. My objection was the spin I was hearing to justify its existence (moire, that is) it into some higher meaning.
David Chin said:
T3 said:
I would interject that the original message of this entire thread
is a much more eloquent example of spin doctoring on the moire
issue. Frankly, as I have stated, all DSLR's have moire. Some have
a little more than others. But to spin it into all this hallowed
philosophical "leaving the untainted data for future generations"
stuff is...spin! So if you want to be critical of spin, it is only
fair that you apply it equally.
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David
Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
Click to expand...
 
It sounds to me like you are the one who's running around injecting (or projecting) all of these mysterious Nikon worshipping attributes onto Nikon owners on this forum. We are not the ones running around forum hopping trying to convince anyone else that they should believe whether Nikon or Canon is best. Indeed, I rare ever see any veteran Nikon users brag about Nikon being best around these parts -- and I'm sure not all Canon users do that for Canon either.

It's ridiculous how you can pop in here on your occasional whim, take a couple shots w/out regard to the real issues at hand, and then call us the fanatic brand worshippers. Sheesh!

Thanks for dropping by to give our chains a little yank w/ your sincere (not!) concern.

And please don't mind that I won't be seeing you out the door now. See ya later ... much!

Man
T3 said:
Man-Fai Wong said:
You are soooo right about Nikon's decision w/ the D70 just like you
were soooo right about Nikon's "highly active marketing machine"
that's equal to Canon's:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=7899626

Yep. That's it.

Man
T3 said:
David Chin said:
... to do the whole reading thing again from the top Slooowwwly,
starting with the original post, seeing where you came in, then
come back here again and at least discuss things with a little more
intelligence. Did I have even have to teach you such basics?
Click to expand...
Yep, I just read through my posts again. Yep, I didn't mention
anything about moire from one camera or the other. Yep, I was just
talking about the other reasonable possibility for the difference
in sensor performance of the D70. Yes, I stayed consistent
throughout. Then suddenly, some guy jumps in showing me moire
samples from the 1Ds, S2, and 14n. I just figured the poor guy
meant to reply to someone else's message because it was a bit out
of context from what I had been discussing. On the other hand,
maybe he was just showing me how far behind Nikon is in their own
sensor development compared to what Canon, Fuji, and Kodak were
doing.
Click to expand...
--
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ 'the light of the world.'
(John 8:12)
See profile for more + some basic photog resources.
As usual, YMMV + caveat emptor.
Contact me at [email protected]
Indulge my fancies at http://www.pbase.com/mandnwong
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ 'the light of the world.' (John 8:12)
See profile for more + some basic photog resources.
As usual, YMMV + caveat emptor.
Contact me at [email protected]
Indulge my fancies at http://www.pbase.com/mandnwong
 
... I see yours haven't improved. You came in trying to bust the D70's chops by spinning (spinning T3 has a nice ring to it) a tale of the "quality" that goes into a sub-1000 camera, and I just busted yours by showing the quality that goes into Canon's top-end ones. Try harder. Comprende?
T3 said:
David Chin said:
T3 said:
To embellish the mundane may help you sleep better at night by
injecting a level of divine prescience into the D70, but sometimes
it's just what it is: a little DSLR with a little moire. What's
the big deal?
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David
Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David

Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
 
You fail to see that the whole point of my argument is that neither company is divinity. They make products. Those products have merit. I speak of those merits. And everyone else has the right to do the same. It's the "Nikon has adopted a very wise strategy"...moire-by-design gibberish that needed rebuttal. I've never heard anyone comment about moire in any other DSLR in the same manner!
David Chin said:
T3 said:
any other company. Nikon is not divinity.
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David
Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
Click to expand...
 
Always ready.
David Chin said:
T3 said:
David Chin said:
T3 said:
To embellish the mundane may help you sleep better at night by
injecting a level of divine prescience into the D70, but sometimes
it's just what it is: a little DSLR with a little moire. What's
the big deal?
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David
Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David
Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
Click to expand...
 
Like all athiests, he believes that there is no god, no divinity and just runs around evangelizing this "truth" about the "facts".

I got it now. I'm slow, but I'm finally learning to read between his lines, LOL!

Man
T3 said:
David Chin said:
T3 said:
any other company. Nikon is not divinity.
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David
Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ 'the light of the world.' (John 8:12)
See profile for more + some basic photog resources.
As usual, YMMV + caveat emptor.
Contact me at [email protected]
Indulge my fancies at http://www.pbase.com/mandnwong
 
Iliah Borg said:
Iliah Borg said:
No kidding the defect is caused by
in-camera software. What's pathetic is that a D70 owner will have
to shell out extra cash to buy software to repair defective images
from Nikon.
Click to expand...
If it is in-camera processing, it is certainly a matter of firmware
upgrade.
Click to expand...
Depends. What if that part of the processing is handled by some off-shelf processors soldered onto the circuit board instead of through firmware.
 
... you need a shrink. The forums tend to be a place to give fellow owners group-hugs, share information and try to improve one's knowledge in a conducive environment. But you, yes, especially you, see the need to come in and pour cold water. And you've done it heaps of times in the D100 forums too. It's OK to slam Nikon, hey, that's your religion, but is it too much to ask you to confine it in the Canon forums? To0 hard to stop this habit? See a shrink.

I probably need to see a shrink too - too much free time and I waste it going head-to-head with fellow nutcases like you :-))
T3 said:
David Chin said:
T3 said:
any other company. Nikon is not divinity.
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David
Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David

Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
 
I do have religion. I do have God. It's just that I don't find it in a camera or a brand. That's called idolatry, isn't it?
Man-Fai Wong said:
I got it now. I'm slow, but I'm finally learning to read between
his lines, LOL!

Man
T3 said:
David Chin said:
T3 said:
any other company. Nikon is not divinity.
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David
Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ 'the light of the world.'
(John 8:12)
See profile for more + some basic photog resources.
As usual, YMMV + caveat emptor.
Contact me at [email protected]
Indulge my fancies at http://www.pbase.com/mandnwong
Click to expand...
 
... he's a loner who desperately needs some warm Nikon love :-)), which we're giving him plenty of, LOL!
Man-Fai Wong said:
Like all athiests, he believes that there is no god, no divinity
and just runs around evangelizing this "truth" about the "facts".

I got it now. I'm slow, but I'm finally learning to read between
his lines, LOL!

Man
Click to expand...
--
Regards, David

Dee70 - Kindly contribute your Dee70 link here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8104743
CP.4.5.0.0. http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
 
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