Former G2/G3/”prosumer” users—differences with DRebel?

Chewie · Mar 22, 2004

Hello everyone,

I’m strongly considering taking the plunge into the dSLR world, but I’ve got several questions. I first would like to hear from those of you who have made the switch to a dSLR.

It’s probably helpful to know where I’m coming from, so here’s a little background:

I’m pretty much a novice to photography.

I currently have a G2 and 420EX—it’s my first “serious” camera and I’ve had it for a little more than a year.
I have never used a film SLR or dSLR before.
I take about 95% of my pictures in Av mode.

Usually I shoot portraits/candids (I have an 11 month old that I photograph constantly!)—mostly indoor shots. I also am starting to do some landscapes.
I am fairly proficient in photoshop and post-process all of my photos.

Why I am looking to upgrade to a dSLR:

Slow AF: The G2 takes a while to focus when I half-press the shutter button. I take a lot of photos of my kid and my friends’ kids, and I end up missing a lot of shots. There’s nothing more frustrating than seeing a good shot and finally getting confirmation of focus only to find that the kids have moved.

Noise: I always shoot at ISO50 because of noise. I really want to get away from using the flash and take pictures with natural light/low light. Because I’m at ISO50, I am really limited because of the slow shutter speeds (motion blur). Now by “low light” I mean relative to the G2—when I’m taking pictures indoors early in the morning with some sunlight in the room, I cannot get a fast enough shutter speed to allow a handheld picture. I hope the low noise at the higher ISO’s from the DRebel will allow me to do this.

Now that that’s out of the way, here are my first set of questions. I want to know how different it is using the DRebel compared to the G2.

1. There is a significant increase in size/weight when stepping up to the DRebel, especially as you add lenses. Was this a big change? Did you use your camera less because of it? Do you find it to be more of a pain to travel with?

2. One of the things I absolutely love about the G2 and use all the time is the swivel LCD screen. It has made many shots much easier to get. Do you miss having this? Is it hard to adjust to using the viewfinder?

3. This one is more of a technical question—does having a larger lens (as compared to G2) improve low light performance? In other words, for a given lighting situation, are you able to use a faster shutter speed at the same ISO/aperture? I know that the DOF is a lot less compared to the G2. I usually shoot at f2.0-2.5 to blur the background, and it also allows the fastest shutter speeds. With the DRebel, I imagine that I will have to reduce the aperture somewhat to get an equivalent DOF—will this negate any advantages of the faster shutter speed from the DRebel?

I’m having a tough time explaining what I’m after with this question. Let me try phrasing it another way: When doing natural light photography with my G2, I have to set the camera to around f2.0 in order to get a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. If I decrease the aperture to say f3.5, the shutter speed goes to like 1/30, which results in motion blur. What I’m wondering is this: If the larger lens allows a faster shutter speed, then with the DRebel set to f3.5 I might be able to get the shutter speed to be 1/60. However, the DOF with the DRebel at f3.5 may be much shallower than the G2 at f2.0, requiring me to set the DRebel to say, F5.0 (I’m pulling these numbers out of the air—sorry if they don’t make sense), which then results in a shutter speed of less than 1/60 and motion blur again. I hope that makes more sense.

4. How easy is it to manually focus and/or verify the focus with a dSLR? The G2 was horrible for this. It was so hard to tell if you were in focus or not using the LCD screen. I can’t begin to count the number of times the photo looked OK on the screen, only to be disappointed when I viewed it on my computer. (Granted my lack of skills are to blame, but I’m hoping that the DRebel will help some).

5. What kinds of things do you have to learn to do differently/habits that you had to break or “unlearn” with the DRebel compared to the G2 when taking photos?

Sorry for the long post, but this will be a somewhat big investment for me and I’d like to make sure that I’m making the right decision!

Thanks in advanced for all your help!

--
Chewie

NathanR · Mar 22, 2004

I have found my DRebel to be brilliant in natural light and low light. I think it excels in those areas compared to other cameras I have used.

You will need to get a lens other than the kit one though to do this type of photography. Something like the 50mm 1.8 is ideal, you'll see lots of posts about that lens. You will find f1.8 is a really shallow DOF but when you get used to it you can produce some amazing pictures once you are used to picking the in-focus area.

The DRebel, that lens and the much more usable higher ISO's will be a remarkable difference compared to your G2.

Chewie said:
Hello everyone,

I’m strongly considering taking the plunge into the dSLR world, but
I’ve got several questions. I first would like to hear from those
of you who have made the switch to a dSLR.

It’s probably helpful to know where I’m coming from, so here’s a
little background:

I’m pretty much a novice to photography.
I currently have a G2 and 420EX—it’s my first “serious” camera and
I’ve had it for a little more than a year.
I have never used a film SLR or dSLR before.
I take about 95% of my pictures in Av mode.
Usually I shoot portraits/candids (I have an 11 month old that I
photograph constantly!)—mostly indoor shots. I also am starting to
do some landscapes.
I am fairly proficient in photoshop and post-process all of my photos.

Why I am looking to upgrade to a dSLR:

Slow AF: The G2 takes a while to focus when I half-press the
shutter button. I take a lot of photos of my kid and my friends’
kids, and I end up missing a lot of shots. There’s nothing more
frustrating than seeing a good shot and finally getting
confirmation of focus only to find that the kids have moved.

Noise: I always shoot at ISO50 because of noise. I really want to
get away from using the flash and take pictures with natural
light/low light. Because I’m at ISO50, I am really limited because
of the slow shutter speeds (motion blur). Now by “low light” I
mean relative to the G2—when I’m taking pictures indoors early in
the morning with some sunlight in the room, I cannot get a fast
enough shutter speed to allow a handheld picture. I hope the low
noise at the higher ISO’s from the DRebel will allow me to do this.

Now that that’s out of the way, here are my first set of questions.
I want to know how different it is using the DRebel compared to the
G2.

1. There is a significant increase in size/weight when stepping up
to the DRebel, especially as you add lenses. Was this a big
change? Did you use your camera less because of it? Do you find
it to be more of a pain to travel with?

2. One of the things I absolutely love about the G2 and use all the
time is the swivel LCD screen. It has made many shots much easier
to get. Do you miss having this? Is it hard to adjust to using
the viewfinder?

3. This one is more of a technical question—does having a larger
lens (as compared to G2) improve low light performance? In other
words, for a given lighting situation, are you able to use a faster
shutter speed at the same ISO/aperture? I know that the DOF is a
lot less compared to the G2. I usually shoot at f2.0-2.5 to blur
the background, and it also allows the fastest shutter speeds.
With the DRebel, I imagine that I will have to reduce the aperture
somewhat to get an equivalent DOF—will this negate any advantages
of the faster shutter speed from the DRebel?

I’m having a tough time explaining what I’m after with this
question. Let me try phrasing it another way: When doing natural
light photography with my G2, I have to set the camera to around
f2.0 in order to get a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. If I
decrease the aperture to say f3.5, the shutter speed goes to like
1/30, which results in motion blur. What I’m wondering is this:
If the larger lens allows a faster shutter speed, then with the
DRebel set to f3.5 I might be able to get the shutter speed to be
1/60. However, the DOF with the DRebel at f3.5 may be much
shallower than the G2 at f2.0, requiring me to set the DRebel to
say, F5.0 (I’m pulling these numbers out of the air—sorry if they
don’t make sense), which then results in a shutter speed of less
than 1/60 and motion blur again. I hope that makes more sense.

4. How easy is it to manually focus and/or verify the focus with a
dSLR? The G2 was horrible for this. It was so hard to tell if you
were in focus or not using the LCD screen. I can’t begin to count
the number of times the photo looked OK on the screen, only to be
disappointed when I viewed it on my computer. (Granted my lack of
skills are to blame, but I’m hoping that the DRebel will help some).

5. What kinds of things do you have to learn to do
differently/habits that you had to break or “unlearn” with the
DRebel compared to the G2 when taking photos?

Sorry for the long post, but this will be a somewhat big investment
for me and I’d like to make sure that I’m making the right decision!

Thanks in advanced for all your help!

--
Chewie

Justme · Mar 22, 2004

I had a G2. Still have it.

Chewie said:
Hello everyone,

I’m strongly considering taking the plunge into the dSLR world, but
I’ve got several questions. I first would like to hear from those
of you who have made the switch to a dSLR.

It’s probably helpful to know where I’m coming from, so here’s a
little background:

I’m pretty much a novice to photography.
I currently have a G2 and 420EX—it’s my first “serious” camera and
I’ve had it for a little more than a year.

Had mine since November 2001.

Chewie said:
I have never used a film SLR or dSLR before.
I take about 95% of my pictures in Av mode.
Usually I shoot portraits/candids (I have an 11 month old that I
photograph constantly!)—mostly indoor shots. I also am starting to
do some landscapes.
I am fairly proficient in photoshop and post-process all of my photos.

Why I am looking to upgrade to a dSLR:

Slow AF: The G2 takes a while to focus when I half-press the
shutter button. I take a lot of photos of my kid and my friends’
kids, and I end up missing a lot of shots. There’s nothing more
frustrating than seeing a good shot and finally getting
confirmation of focus only to find that the kids have moved.

I had many such blurred shots indoors without using flash. It was frustrating.

Chewie said:
Noise: I always shoot at ISO50 because of noise. I really want to
get away from using the flash and take pictures with natural
light/low light. Because I’m at ISO50, I am really limited because
of the slow shutter speeds (motion blur). Now by “low light” I
mean relative to the G2—when I’m taking pictures indoors early in
the morning with some sunlight in the room, I cannot get a fast
enough shutter speed to allow a handheld picture. I hope the low
noise at the higher ISO’s from the DRebel will allow me to do this.

I have very good results using ISO 400 and a fast lens like the Canon 50mm 1.8 ($80 USD). Very low noise and good image quality.

Chewie said:
Now that that’s out of the way, here are my first set of questions.
I want to know how different it is using the DRebel compared to the
G2.

Much less frustrating for indoor low light shooting without flash. Much better for action shots outdoors (catching birds in flight, squirrels in action, kids running around outside in your case).

Chewie said:
1. There is a significant increase in size/weight when stepping up
to the DRebel, especially as you add lenses. Was this a big
change? Did you use your camera less because of it? Do you find
it to be more of a pain to travel with?

I have an S400 which I can take everywhere. Actually, I'm taking my DRebel with me more than my G2 because it's so much more fun and versatile (then again I have a car). Versatile as far as faster AF, low noise ISO, almost non noticeable shutter lag, and better choice in lenses (like my 75-300mm tele).

Chewie said:
2. One of the things I absolutely love about the G2 and use all the
time is the swivel LCD screen. It has made many shots much easier
to get. Do you miss having this? Is it hard to adjust to using
the viewfinder?

It was a bit awkward adjusting to the VF again after using the LCD for so long. After awhile I got use to it and now cannot think about not using the VF (it's much clearer and easier to follow action through VF). I really enjoy bringing the camera to my eye...it may even help in holding camera steadier.

Chewie said:
3. This one is more of a technical question—does having a larger
lens (as compared to G2) improve low light performance? In other
words, for a given lighting situation, are you able to use a faster
shutter speed at the same ISO/aperture?

You'll be more likely to use ISO 400 and even 800 on the DRebel because it's so useable (400 is better as 800 gets a bit noisier but still very nice and useable given proper exposure). On the G2 I seldom ventured past ISO 50 or 100 even. It's not a larger lens but getting a faster lens like the Canon 50mm 1.8 which will help in low-light. The 50mm 1.8 at ISO 400 or 800 will beat the G2 in low-light indoor shooting by miles for speed and useability in same light conditions.

Chewie said:
I know that the DOF is a
lot less compared to the G2. I usually shoot at f2.0-2.5 to blur
the background, and it also allows the fastest shutter speeds.
With the DRebel, I imagine that I will have to reduce the aperture
somewhat to get an equivalent DOF—will this negate any advantages
of the faster shutter speed from the DRebel?

You can blur the background pretty good using the Canon 50mm 1.8.

Snip. Got msg post was too long.

Chewie said:
4. How easy is it to manually focus and/or verify the focus with a
dSLR? The G2 was horrible for this. It was so hard to tell if you
were in focus or not using the LCD screen. I can’t begin to count
the number of times the photo looked OK on the screen, only to be
disappointed when I viewed it on my computer. (Granted my lack of
skills are to blame, but I’m hoping that the DRebel will help some).

The DRebel is much much better in this area.

Chewie said:
5. What kinds of things do you have to learn to do
differently/habits that you had to break or “unlearn” with the
DRebel compared to the G2 when taking photos?

Learning to press the shutter button faster as I was use to a delay with the G2.

Chewie said:
Sorry for the long post, but this will be a somewhat big investment
for me and I’d like to make sure that I’m making the right decision!

Thanks in advanced for all your help!

--
Chewie

--
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/digital_rebel_2
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/the_adventure_of_squirrels
http://www.pbase.com/golfpic/cabot_trail__cape_breton

Jim Coffey #162382 · Mar 22, 2004

I don't know much about the G2 but here are my comments when switching from the Fuji S602 which was a sweet camera until it got stolen.

Chewie said:
Slow AF: YOU'LL LOVE THE DREB - NO SHUTTER LAG AT ALL.

Noise: HIGHER ISO'S ARE GREAT - BUT THE KIT LENS IS SLOWER THAN THE S602 LENS I WAS USED TO SO IT BASICALLY EVENS OUT. ONCE I CAN AFFORD A FASTER LENS THEN THE DREB WILL BE THE WINNER.

Fuji S602 LENS 35 to 210 F2.8/F3.1 ISO 200 FOR LOW NOISE

DREB 18-55 OR 28-88MM EQUIVALENT F5.6 AT 88(55)

THIS IS 2 STOPS SLOWER THAN THE FUJI BUT I CAN GO TO ISO 800 WITHOUT ANY NOISE WHICH GIVES ME AN EQUIVALENT SHUTTER SPEED.

Chewie said:
1. There is a significant increase in size/weight when stepping up
to the DRebel, especially as you add lenses. Was this a big
change? Did you use your camera less because of it? Do you find
it to be more of a pain to travel with?

WEIGHT AND SIZE ARE BOTH REAL ISSUES. I PURCHASED A FUJI S5000 TO REPLACE THE S602 AND WASN'T HAPPY WITH THE NOISE AND SHUTTER LAG SO I BOUGHT A DREB. I WAS PLANNING TO SELL THE S5000 BUT DECIDED TO KEEP IT BECAUSE IT'S A GOOD LITTLE CAMERA THAT FITS IN MY WIFE'S PURSE. IF ALL I WANT IS SOME GOOD SNAPSHOTS ON A VACATION I'LL TAKE THE S5000 WHICH WILL FIT IN THE SAME BAG WITH MY CAMCORDER. THE DREB+KIT LENS IS TOO BIG TO JOIN THE CAMCORDER - TOO HEAVY FOR ME.

Chewie said:
3. This one is more of a technical question—does having a larger
lens (as compared to G2) improve low light performance?

F2.8 IS F2.8 IT'S THE SIZE OF THE IRIS. IF THE CAMERA IS CALIBRATED PROPERLY FOR A GIVEN AMOUNT OF LIGHT ALL CAMERAS SHOULD REQUIRE THE SAME SHUTTER SPEED AT THE SAME FSTOP. READ THE REVIEWS TO SEE IF THE DREB HAS BETTER LIGHT SENSITIVITY THAN THE G2. I WOULD GUESS THAT SINCE THEY'RE BOTH CANON'S THEY HAVE THE SAME LIGHT METER.

DO A WEB SEARCH ON RECIPROCITY, LIGHT METERS, AND FSTOP AND LEARN MORE.

Chewie said:
4. How easy is it to manually focus and/or verify the focus with a

dSLR? THE DREB PREVIEW SCREEN IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO VERIFY FOCUS. THINGS THAT LOOK GOOD ON SCREEN OFTEN ARE BLURRY WHEN DEVELOPED.

MY EYES ARE NO LONGER GOOD ENOUGH FOR MANUAL FOCUS - SO I JUST TRUST THE AF AND IT'S CORRECT MOST OF THE TIME.

MDozois · Mar 22, 2004

Chewie said:
I’m having a tough time explaining what I’m after with this
question. Let me try phrasing it another way: When doing natural
light photography with my G2, I have to set the camera to around
f2.0 in order to get a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. If I
decrease the aperture to say f3.5, the shutter speed goes to like
1/30, which results in motion blur. What I’m wondering is this:
If the larger lens allows a faster shutter speed, then with the
DRebel set to f3.5 I might be able to get the shutter speed to be
1/60.

f2.0 at 1/60 on one lens will give the same exposure no mater the lens or camera you use.

What a reflex body should allow is the option of a faster lens like f1.8, f1.4 or even and f1.0. DOF will be measured in mm but you would get the shutter speed required.

My own two cents

Michel d

Justme · Mar 22, 2004

If you have enough light and is exposed well it can be clean enough (not as good as 400) even at ISO 800. Here is an ISO 800 shot using the Canon 50mm 1.8 lens.

http://www.pbase.com/image/24542519/large

Doc Tonic · Mar 22, 2004

Chewie,

The reasons you listed to upgrade to a DSLR are valid ones, however there are many more reasons to upgrade that you won't understand until you do so. Since you are a novice to SLR photography in general, you won't even understand the vast differences among all the various lenses until you start trying them out for yourself. You also cannot begin to imagine how owning many different types of lenses will change your photography forever. Everything from true macro photography, to wide angle fish lenses, prime lenses, and the list just goes on. The bottom line is this: Do you want to learn how to become a real photographer or do you just want to take casual photos. Entering the DSLR world is both an investment of time and money...lots of money (the Rebel itself is cheap compared to the cost of good quality glass). Forget about all the differences between the G series and just focus on whether or not you want this to become a serious hobby.

Rob Havemeyer · Mar 22, 2004

Hey Chewie
Allot of people have already made some very
good comments

I thought I would just say
I made the switch and do not miss the swivel
I thought I would but you just get used to it.
THe size of the camera no problem. I really like the 300D's
size now when I pick up the G2 it seems like a toy..
Overall DOF since you like to blur you backgrounds you will like
what the 300D will do for you. Very different than the G2
At say an f2 with the 300D close up your DOF "in focus" is very small

Being a G2 owner a few things I really have enjoyed
1. Very fast auto focus !! I have 2 kids and it really makes a difference

2. Low Noise being able toreally use ISO 400 with no problems is great to keep the sutter speed up !!!!

Plus I really wanted more Zoom from my G2
So I have a Sigma 70-300 APO lens ...WOW what a difference

You will still end up post processing most of your good shots with the 300D but you said you are a PS user so thats good..

If you want take a look
I have a G2 Gallery and a 300D Gallery
Good Luck !!!!

Rob

http://www.pbase.com/robh

Chewie said:
Hello everyone,

I’m strongly considering taking the plunge into the dSLR world, but
I’ve got several questions. I first would like to hear from those
of you who have made the switch to a dSLR.

It’s probably helpful to know where I’m coming from, so here’s a
little background:

I’m pretty much a novice to photography.
I currently have a G2 and 420EX—it’s my first “serious” camera and
I’ve had it for a little more than a year.
I have never used a film SLR or dSLR before.
I take about 95% of my pictures in Av mode.
Usually I shoot portraits/candids (I have an 11 month old that I
photograph constantly!)—mostly indoor shots. I also am starting to
do some landscapes.
I am fairly proficient in photoshop and post-process all of my photos.

Why I am looking to upgrade to a dSLR:

Slow AF: The G2 takes a while to focus when I half-press the
shutter button. I take a lot of photos of my kid and my friends’
kids, and I end up missing a lot of shots. There’s nothing more
frustrating than seeing a good shot and finally getting
confirmation of focus only to find that the kids have moved.

Noise: I always shoot at ISO50 because of noise. I really want to
get away from using the flash and take pictures with natural
light/low light. Because I’m at ISO50, I am really limited because
of the slow shutter speeds (motion blur). Now by “low light” I
mean relative to the G2—when I’m taking pictures indoors early in
the morning with some sunlight in the room, I cannot get a fast
enough shutter speed to allow a handheld picture. I hope the low
noise at the higher ISO’s from the DRebel will allow me to do this.

Now that that’s out of the way, here are my first set of questions.
I want to know how different it is using the DRebel compared to the
G2.

1. There is a significant increase in size/weight when stepping up
to the DRebel, especially as you add lenses. Was this a big
change? Did you use your camera less because of it? Do you find
it to be more of a pain to travel with?

2. One of the things I absolutely love about the G2 and use all the
time is the swivel LCD screen. It has made many shots much easier
to get. Do you miss having this? Is it hard to adjust to using
the viewfinder?

3. This one is more of a technical question—does having a larger
lens (as compared to G2) improve low light performance? In other
words, for a given lighting situation, are you able to use a faster
shutter speed at the same ISO/aperture? I know that the DOF is a
lot less compared to the G2. I usually shoot at f2.0-2.5 to blur
the background, and it also allows the fastest shutter speeds.
With the DRebel, I imagine that I will have to reduce the aperture
somewhat to get an equivalent DOF—will this negate any advantages
of the faster shutter speed from the DRebel?

I’m having a tough time explaining what I’m after with this
question. Let me try phrasing it another way: When doing natural
light photography with my G2, I have to set the camera to around
f2.0 in order to get a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. If I
decrease the aperture to say f3.5, the shutter speed goes to like
1/30, which results in motion blur. What I’m wondering is this:
If the larger lens allows a faster shutter speed, then with the
DRebel set to f3.5 I might be able to get the shutter speed to be
1/60. However, the DOF with the DRebel at f3.5 may be much
shallower than the G2 at f2.0, requiring me to set the DRebel to
say, F5.0 (I’m pulling these numbers out of the air—sorry if they
don’t make sense), which then results in a shutter speed of less
than 1/60 and motion blur again. I hope that makes more sense.

4. How easy is it to manually focus and/or verify the focus with a
dSLR? The G2 was horrible for this. It was so hard to tell if you
were in focus or not using the LCD screen. I can’t begin to count
the number of times the photo looked OK on the screen, only to be
disappointed when I viewed it on my computer. (Granted my lack of
skills are to blame, but I’m hoping that the DRebel will help some).

5. What kinds of things do you have to learn to do
differently/habits that you had to break or “unlearn” with the
DRebel compared to the G2 when taking photos?

Sorry for the long post, but this will be a somewhat big investment
for me and I’d like to make sure that I’m making the right decision!

Thanks in advanced for all your help!

--
Chewie

Jimmy B182852 · Mar 23, 2004

All the things you listed are reason enough to change from the G2.

My G2 was/is a great camera but the DR is 'much more greater' as my five-year-old likes to say.

Chewie said:
Hello everyone,

I’m strongly considering taking the plunge into the dSLR world, but
I’ve got several questions. I first would like to hear from those
of you who have made the switch to a dSLR.

It’s probably helpful to know where I’m coming from, so here’s a
little background:

I’m pretty much a novice to photography.
I currently have a G2 and 420EX—it’s my first “serious” camera and
I’ve had it for a little more than a year.
I have never used a film SLR or dSLR before.
I take about 95% of my pictures in Av mode.
Usually I shoot portraits/candids (I have an 11 month old that I
photograph constantly!)—mostly indoor shots. I also am starting to
do some landscapes.
I am fairly proficient in photoshop and post-process all of my photos.

Why I am looking to upgrade to a dSLR:

Slow AF: The G2 takes a while to focus when I half-press the
shutter button. I take a lot of photos of my kid and my friends’
kids, and I end up missing a lot of shots. There’s nothing more
frustrating than seeing a good shot and finally getting
confirmation of focus only to find that the kids have moved.

Noise: I always shoot at ISO50 because of noise. I really want to
get away from using the flash and take pictures with natural
light/low light. Because I’m at ISO50, I am really limited because
of the slow shutter speeds (motion blur). Now by “low light” I
mean relative to the G2—when I’m taking pictures indoors early in
the morning with some sunlight in the room, I cannot get a fast
enough shutter speed to allow a handheld picture. I hope the low
noise at the higher ISO’s from the DRebel will allow me to do this.

Now that that’s out of the way, here are my first set of questions.
I want to know how different it is using the DRebel compared to the
G2.

1. There is a significant increase in size/weight when stepping up
to the DRebel, especially as you add lenses. Was this a big
change? Did you use your camera less because of it? Do you find
it to be more of a pain to travel with?

2. One of the things I absolutely love about the G2 and use all the
time is the swivel LCD screen. It has made many shots much easier
to get. Do you miss having this? Is it hard to adjust to using
the viewfinder?

3. This one is more of a technical question—does having a larger
lens (as compared to G2) improve low light performance? In other
words, for a given lighting situation, are you able to use a faster
shutter speed at the same ISO/aperture? I know that the DOF is a
lot less compared to the G2. I usually shoot at f2.0-2.5 to blur
the background, and it also allows the fastest shutter speeds.
With the DRebel, I imagine that I will have to reduce the aperture
somewhat to get an equivalent DOF—will this negate any advantages
of the faster shutter speed from the DRebel?

I’m having a tough time explaining what I’m after with this
question. Let me try phrasing it another way: When doing natural
light photography with my G2, I have to set the camera to around
f2.0 in order to get a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. If I
decrease the aperture to say f3.5, the shutter speed goes to like
1/30, which results in motion blur. What I’m wondering is this:
If the larger lens allows a faster shutter speed, then with the
DRebel set to f3.5 I might be able to get the shutter speed to be
1/60. However, the DOF with the DRebel at f3.5 may be much
shallower than the G2 at f2.0, requiring me to set the DRebel to
say, F5.0 (I’m pulling these numbers out of the air—sorry if they
don’t make sense), which then results in a shutter speed of less
than 1/60 and motion blur again. I hope that makes more sense.

4. How easy is it to manually focus and/or verify the focus with a
dSLR? The G2 was horrible for this. It was so hard to tell if you
were in focus or not using the LCD screen. I can’t begin to count
the number of times the photo looked OK on the screen, only to be
disappointed when I viewed it on my computer. (Granted my lack of
skills are to blame, but I’m hoping that the DRebel will help some).

5. What kinds of things do you have to learn to do
differently/habits that you had to break or “unlearn” with the
DRebel compared to the G2 when taking photos?

Sorry for the long post, but this will be a somewhat big investment
for me and I’d like to make sure that I’m making the right decision!

Thanks in advanced for all your help!

--
Chewie

--
Jim (yah doesn't have to call me Jimmy)

F.K.Gordon · Mar 23, 2004

Jimmy B said:
My G2 was/is a great camera but the DR is 'much more greater' as my
five-year-old likes to say.

Chewie said:

Hello everyone,

I’m strongly considering taking the plunge into the dSLR world, but
I’ve got several questions. I first would like to hear from those
of you who have made the switch to a dSLR.

It’s probably helpful to know where I’m coming from, so here’s a
little background:

I’m pretty much a novice to photography.
I currently have a G2 and 420EX—it’s my first “serious” camera and
I’ve had it for a little more than a year.
I have never used a film SLR or dSLR before.
I take about 95% of my pictures in Av mode.
Usually I shoot portraits/candids (I have an 11 month old that I
photograph constantly!)—mostly indoor shots. I also am starting to
do some landscapes.
I am fairly proficient in photoshop and post-process all of my photos.

Why I am looking to upgrade to a dSLR:

Slow AF: The G2 takes a while to focus when I half-press the
shutter button. I take a lot of photos of my kid and my friends’
kids, and I end up missing a lot of shots. There’s nothing more
frustrating than seeing a good shot and finally getting
confirmation of focus only to find that the kids have moved.

Noise: I always shoot at ISO50 because of noise. I really want to
get away from using the flash and take pictures with natural
light/low light. Because I’m at ISO50, I am really limited because
of the slow shutter speeds (motion blur). Now by “low light” I
mean relative to the G2—when I’m taking pictures indoors early in
the morning with some sunlight in the room, I cannot get a fast
enough shutter speed to allow a handheld picture. I hope the low
noise at the higher ISO’s from the DRebel will allow me to do this.

Now that that’s out of the way, here are my first set of questions.
I want to know how different it is using the DRebel compared to the
G2.

1. There is a significant increase in size/weight when stepping up
to the DRebel, especially as you add lenses. Was this a big
change? Did you use your camera less because of it? Do you find
it to be more of a pain to travel with?

2. One of the things I absolutely love about the G2 and use all the
time is the swivel LCD screen. It has made many shots much easier
to get. Do you miss having this? Is it hard to adjust to using
the viewfinder?

3. This one is more of a technical question—does having a larger
lens (as compared to G2) improve low light performance? In other
words, for a given lighting situation, are you able to use a faster
shutter speed at the same ISO/aperture? I know that the DOF is a
lot less compared to the G2. I usually shoot at f2.0-2.5 to blur
the background, and it also allows the fastest shutter speeds.
With the DRebel, I imagine that I will have to reduce the aperture
somewhat to get an equivalent DOF—will this negate any advantages
of the faster shutter speed from the DRebel?

I’m having a tough time explaining what I’m after with this
question. Let me try phrasing it another way: When doing natural
light photography with my G2, I have to set the camera to around
f2.0 in order to get a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. If I
decrease the aperture to say f3.5, the shutter speed goes to like
1/30, which results in motion blur. What I’m wondering is this:
If the larger lens allows a faster shutter speed, then with the
DRebel set to f3.5 I might be able to get the shutter speed to be
1/60. However, the DOF with the DRebel at f3.5 may be much
shallower than the G2 at f2.0, requiring me to set the DRebel to
say, F5.0 (I’m pulling these numbers out of the air—sorry if they
don’t make sense), which then results in a shutter speed of less
than 1/60 and motion blur again. I hope that makes more sense.

4. How easy is it to manually focus and/or verify the focus with a
dSLR? The G2 was horrible for this. It was so hard to tell if you
were in focus or not using the LCD screen. I can’t begin to count
the number of times the photo looked OK on the screen, only to be
disappointed when I viewed it on my computer. (Granted my lack of
skills are to blame, but I’m hoping that the DRebel will help some).

5. What kinds of things do you have to learn to do
differently/habits that you had to break or “unlearn” with the
DRebel compared to the G2 when taking photos?

Sorry for the long post, but this will be a somewhat big investment
for me and I’d like to make sure that I’m making the right decision!

Thanks in advanced for all your help!

--
Chewie

Click to expand...

--
Jim (yah doesn't have to call me Jimmy)

--
FKG:

I have the G2 and the 300D, and find many differences in the cameras as many people have allready mentioned. I kept the G2 because of (a) the swivel LCD and (b) with the addition of the WA lens gives greater width to my landscapes. and (c) when out sauntering during the day or evening its a great camera for this kind of phototaking. Keep the G2 its a great addition to the 300D or any other DSLR.

Bear in mind that if you bought it when it first came out the depreciation in the camera has been phenominal and there you owe it to yourself to keep it for at least 5 yrs.

uichanco · Mar 23, 2004

Chewie,

Despite your claims to being a novice, you're studied enough to know the real issues that will affect. Good going.

I also moved to the DR so I can catch my kids in action. The lag on the non-SLR digital cameras was just tooooo long.

Others here have given you very good feedback. Here are mine:

1) focus of the DR is soooo much faster. But you do have to learn how to use the AF system as it tends to focus on high contrast objects, not necessarily what is nearest or in the center.

2) Noise on the DR is acceptable even up to 800 ISO. In a pinch, I'll even shoot at 1600 ISO. Better to have the shot and just clean-up after.

3) MUCH bigger then the G2. Go to a store and try it. I've lots of experience with film SLR and I wish the DR were as small as the film Rebels.

4) Yes, you're going to miss the swivel LCD display! My kids are small and I've learned to really get down on the floor to be at eye level with my kids.

I've also learned to use the red focus light of the Canon flash (420ex) to "point" the camera at my kid's face. This trick allows me to point the camera from positions where I can't get my eye to the eye-piece.

5) Learn to use bounce flash. This works great with the DR. Nothing stops action like flash. I find the pictures of my kids indoor with flash are very sharp and very nice.

6) Depth of field is definitely shallower so focus is more important. Good thing the focus of the DR is more accurate! I've also had success with manual focus.

I hope this helps.
Bong

Tony SD · Mar 23, 2004

uichanco said:
Chewie,

Despite your claims to being a novice, you're studied enough to
know the real issues that will affect. Good going.

I also moved to the DR so I can catch my kids in action. The lag
on the non-SLR digital cameras was just tooooo long.

Others here have given you very good feedback. Here are mine:
1) focus of the DR is soooo much faster. But you do have to learn
how to use the AF system as it tends to focus on high contrast
objects, not necessarily what is nearest or in the center.

2) Noise on the DR is acceptable even up to 800 ISO. In a pinch,
I'll even shoot at 1600 ISO. Better to have the shot and just
clean-up after.

3) MUCH bigger then the G2. Go to a store and try it. I've lots
of experience with film SLR and I wish the DR were as small as the
film Rebels.

4) Yes, you're going to miss the swivel LCD display! My kids are
small and I've learned to really get down on the floor to be at eye
level with my kids.
I've also learned to use the red focus light of the Canon flash
(420ex) to "point" the camera at my kid's face. This trick allows
me to point the camera from positions where I can't get my eye to
the eye-piece.

5) Learn to use bounce flash. This works great with the DR.
Nothing stops action like flash. I find the pictures of my kids
indoor with flash are very sharp and very nice.

6) Depth of field is definitely shallower so focus is more
important. Good thing the focus of the DR is more accurate! I've
also had success with manual focus.

I hope this helps.
Bong

I agree with all the points made by other posters, but I'm surprised that you found noise a problem with the G2. I have a G3 but then bought a Minolta A1. Excellent camera but I was initially horrified by the noise levels compared with the G3. The Rebel of course, is outstanding for its low noise levels.

One other point - yes, I miss the swivel LCD, but an angle finder has partly made up for this. Recommended.

Another thing - it can represent a Black Hole for your wallet. Inevitably you'll want extra lenses... and extra lenses... and extra lenses!

But I'm sure you'll get one now - enjoy!
--
TonySD

LCrowl · Mar 23, 2004

I owned the G2 for 2 years. It had some good features, but having previously used an EOS 50 film SLR I was continually frustrated by the lack of zoom and particularly wide angle.

The G2 is a prosumer camera. It is designed for point and shoot situations, with the addition of features such as the creative zone and Raw to please the more experienced.

The 300D is not really a point and shoot camera. It is best used in Raw mode and each photo processed to obtain the desired result.
The 300D runs rings around the G2 in many aspects.

The weight and size is of minimal concern if you're prepared to get more creative with photography.

If you only want a camera for snapshots the G2 is perfect. If you want to shoot sports, landscapes, etc. the 300D offers more choice.

Chewie · Mar 23, 2004

Nathan,

Thanks for your response. I've read a lot about that lens on here; I'll definitely be ordering one!

I am concerned about the shallow DOF in general compared to the G2. Guess I just need to practice.

--
Chewie

NathanR said:
I have found my DRebel to be brilliant in natural light and low
light. I think it excels in those areas compared to other cameras
I have used.

You will need to get a lens other than the kit one though to do
this type of photography. Something like the 50mm 1.8 is ideal,
you'll see lots of posts about that lens. You will find f1.8 is a
really shallow DOF but when you get used to it you can produce some
amazing pictures once you are used to picking the in-focus area.

The DRebel, that lens and the much more usable higher ISO's will be
a remarkable difference compared to your G2.

Chewie · Mar 23, 2004

Justme said:
I had a G2. Still have it.

I plan on keeping mine too as a backup or when I need to travel light. It's still a great camera.

Justme said:
[snip]
Much less frustrating for indoor low light shooting without flash.
Much better for action shots outdoors (catching birds in flight,
squirrels in action, kids running around outside in your case).

Good to hear this--it's exactly what I want the camera for. Do you find the kit lens fast enought for indoor low light without flash (up to ISO800?) I do plan on getting the 50mm f1.8 as well.

Justme said:
[snip]
I have an S400 which I can take everywhere. Actually, I'm taking
my DRebel with me more than my G2 because it's so much more fun and
versatile (then again I have a car). Versatile as far as faster
AF, low noise ISO, almost non noticeable shutter lag, and better
choice in lenses (like my 75-300mm tele).

Which tele lens do you have? How do you like it? Is it too bulky to use as a "walkaround" lens?

Justme said:
[snip]
It was a bit awkward adjusting to the VF again after using the LCD
for so long. After awhile I got use to it and now cannot think
about not using the VF (it's much clearer and easier to follow
action through VF). I really enjoy bringing the camera to my
eye...it may even help in holding camera steadier.

I'm wondering how it will be adjusting to this...but hey, it's a new challenge to help me improve.

Justme said:
[snip]
You'll be more likely to use ISO 400 and even 800 on the DRebel
because it's so useable (400 is better as 800 gets a bit noisier
but still very nice and useable given proper exposure). On the G2
I seldom ventured past ISO 50 or 100 even. It's not a larger lens
but getting a faster lens like the Canon 50mm 1.8 which will help
in low-light. The 50mm 1.8 at ISO 400 or 800 will beat the G2 in
low-light indoor shooting by miles for speed and useability in same
light conditions.

I looked at your shot at ISO800--the noise levels are still really low! Like you I never went higher than ISO 100 and rarely above ISO 50.

Justme said:
[snip]

Thanks for your input!

--
Chewie

Chewie · Mar 23, 2004

Jim Coffey said:
I don't know much about the G2 but here are my comments when
switching from the Fuji S602 which was a sweet camera until it got
stolen.

Sorry to hear about that!

Jim Coffey #162382 said:
Jim Coffey #162382 said:

Slow AF: YOU'LL LOVE THE DREB - NO SHUTTER LAG AT ALL.

Noise: HIGHER ISO'S ARE GREAT - BUT THE KIT LENS IS SLOWER THAN THE S602 LENS I WAS USED TO SO IT BASICALLY EVENS OUT. ONCE I CAN AFFORD A FASTER LENS THEN THE DREB WILL BE THE WINNER.

Click to expand...

I plan on getting the 50mm f1.8, so that should help. The lens on the G2 was nice and fast f2.0/f2.5.

Jim Coffey #162382 said:
Fuji S602 LENS 35 to 210 F2.8/F3.1 ISO 200 FOR LOW NOISE

DREB 18-55 OR 28-88MM EQUIVALENT F5.6 AT 88(55)
THIS IS 2 STOPS SLOWER THAN THE FUJI BUT I CAN GO TO ISO 800
WITHOUT ANY NOISE WHICH GIVES ME AN EQUIVALENT SHUTTER SPEED.

That's one of my main reasons for buying the DRebel--low noise to allow higher ISO. I can't wait.

Jim Coffey #162382 said:
WEIGHT AND SIZE ARE BOTH REAL ISSUES. I PURCHASED A FUJI S5000 TO
REPLACE THE S602 AND WASN'T HAPPY WITH THE NOISE AND SHUTTER LAG SO
I BOUGHT A DREB. I WAS PLANNING TO SELL THE S5000 BUT DECIDED TO
KEEP IT BECAUSE IT'S A GOOD LITTLE CAMERA THAT FITS IN MY WIFE'S
PURSE. IF ALL I WANT IS SOME GOOD SNAPSHOTS ON A VACATION I'LL
TAKE THE S5000 WHICH WILL FIT IN THE SAME BAG WITH MY CAMCORDER.
THE DREB+KIT LENS IS TOO BIG TO JOIN THE CAMCORDER - TOO HEAVY FOR
ME.

That is the downside...there's always a tradeoff, I guess!

Jim Coffey #162382 said:
Jim Coffey #162382 said:

3. This one is more of a technical question—does having a larger
lens (as compared to G2) improve low light performance?

Click to expand...

F2.8 IS F2.8 IT'S THE SIZE OF THE IRIS. IF THE CAMERA IS
CALIBRATED PROPERLY FOR A GIVEN AMOUNT OF LIGHT ALL CAMERAS SHOULD
REQUIRE THE SAME SHUTTER SPEED AT THE SAME FSTOP. READ THE REVIEWS
TO SEE IF THE DREB HAS BETTER LIGHT SENSITIVITY THAN THE G2. I
WOULD GUESS THAT SINCE THEY'RE BOTH CANON'S THEY HAVE THE SAME
LIGHT METER.

DO A WEB SEARCH ON RECIPROCITY, LIGHT METERS, AND FSTOP AND LEARN
MORE.

My newbie-ness is showing

Thanks for setting me straight.

--
Chewie

Chewie · Mar 23, 2004

Thanks for helping me understand!

--
Chewie

MDozois said:
MDozois said:

I’m having a tough time explaining what I’m after with this
question. Let me try phrasing it another way: When doing natural
light photography with my G2, I have to set the camera to around
f2.0 in order to get a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. If I
decrease the aperture to say f3.5, the shutter speed goes to like
1/30, which results in motion blur. What I’m wondering is this:
If the larger lens allows a faster shutter speed, then with the
DRebel set to f3.5 I might be able to get the shutter speed to be
1/60.

Click to expand...

f2.0 at 1/60 on one lens will give the same exposure no mater the
lens or camera you use.

What a reflex body should allow is the option of a faster lens like
f1.8, f1.4 or even and f1.0. DOF will be measured in mm but you
would get the shutter speed required.

My own two cents

Michel d

--
Chewie

Chewie · Mar 23, 2004

Doc Tonic said:
Chewie,

The reasons you listed to upgrade to a DSLR are valid ones, however
there are many more reasons to upgrade that you won't understand
until you do so. Since you are a novice to SLR photography in
general, you won't even understand the vast differences among all
the various lenses until you start trying them out for yourself.

I'm still trying to figure out the camera itself as well! I have a lot to learn, but I'm looking forward to it. I've learned a lot from the G2 and made a lot of improvement in my skills, but I've a ways to go.

Doc Tonic said:
You also cannot begin to imagine how owning many different types of
lenses will change your photography forever. Everything from true
macro photography, to wide angle fish lenses, prime lenses, and the
list just goes on. The bottom line is this: Do you want to learn
how to become a real photographer or do you just want to take
casual photos. Entering the DSLR world is both an investment of
time and money...lots of money (the Rebel itself is cheap compared
to the cost of good quality glass). Forget about all the
differences between the G series and just focus on whether or not
you want this to become a serious hobby.

$$$$$$

Always the problem! I've had so much fun with the G2, and I look forward to the possibilities that will open up with a better camera/lens.

--
Chewie

--
Chewie

Chewie · Mar 23, 2004

Thanks for your comments. I think the shallow DOF may be a challenge for me to get used to, but it seems that there is so much to gain.

With your sigma lens at full tele, do you find that you have to use a tripod to get a steady shot?

thanks,

--
Chewie

Rob Havemeyer said:
Hey Chewie
Allot of people have already made some very
good comments

I thought I would just say
I made the switch and do not miss the swivel
I thought I would but you just get used to it.
THe size of the camera no problem. I really like the 300D's
size now when I pick up the G2 it seems like a toy..
Overall DOF since you like to blur you backgrounds you will like
what the 300D will do for you. Very different than the G2
At say an f2 with the 300D close up your DOF "in focus" is very small

Being a G2 owner a few things I really have enjoyed
1. Very fast auto focus !! I have 2 kids and it really makes a
difference
2. Low Noise being able toreally use ISO 400 with no problems is
great to keep the sutter speed up !!!!

Plus I really wanted more Zoom from my G2
So I have a Sigma 70-300 APO lens ...WOW what a difference

You will still end up post processing most of your good shots with
the 300D but you said you are a PS user so thats good..

If you want take a look
I have a G2 Gallery and a 300D Gallery
Good Luck !!!!

Rob

http://www.pbase.com/robh

Chewie · Mar 23, 2004

Jimmy B said:
My G2 was/is a great camera but the DR is 'much more greater' as my
five-year-old likes to say.

Chewie said:

Hello everyone,

I’m strongly considering taking the plunge into the dSLR world, but
I’ve got several questions. I first would like to hear from those
of you who have made the switch to a dSLR.

It’s probably helpful to know where I’m coming from, so here’s a
little background:

I’m pretty much a novice to photography.
I currently have a G2 and 420EX—it’s my first “serious” camera and
I’ve had it for a little more than a year.
I have never used a film SLR or dSLR before.
I take about 95% of my pictures in Av mode.
Usually I shoot portraits/candids (I have an 11 month old that I
photograph constantly!)—mostly indoor shots. I also am starting to
do some landscapes.
I am fairly proficient in photoshop and post-process all of my photos.

Why I am looking to upgrade to a dSLR:

Slow AF: The G2 takes a while to focus when I half-press the
shutter button. I take a lot of photos of my kid and my friends’
kids, and I end up missing a lot of shots. There’s nothing more
frustrating than seeing a good shot and finally getting
confirmation of focus only to find that the kids have moved.

Noise: I always shoot at ISO50 because of noise. I really want to
get away from using the flash and take pictures with natural
light/low light. Because I’m at ISO50, I am really limited because
of the slow shutter speeds (motion blur). Now by “low light” I
mean relative to the G2—when I’m taking pictures indoors early in
the morning with some sunlight in the room, I cannot get a fast
enough shutter speed to allow a handheld picture. I hope the low
noise at the higher ISO’s from the DRebel will allow me to do this.

Now that that’s out of the way, here are my first set of questions.
I want to know how different it is using the DRebel compared to the
G2.

1. There is a significant increase in size/weight when stepping up
to the DRebel, especially as you add lenses. Was this a big
change? Did you use your camera less because of it? Do you find
it to be more of a pain to travel with?

2. One of the things I absolutely love about the G2 and use all the
time is the swivel LCD screen. It has made many shots much easier
to get. Do you miss having this? Is it hard to adjust to using
the viewfinder?

3. This one is more of a technical question—does having a larger
lens (as compared to G2) improve low light performance? In other
words, for a given lighting situation, are you able to use a faster
shutter speed at the same ISO/aperture? I know that the DOF is a
lot less compared to the G2. I usually shoot at f2.0-2.5 to blur
the background, and it also allows the fastest shutter speeds.
With the DRebel, I imagine that I will have to reduce the aperture
somewhat to get an equivalent DOF—will this negate any advantages
of the faster shutter speed from the DRebel?

I’m having a tough time explaining what I’m after with this
question. Let me try phrasing it another way: When doing natural
light photography with my G2, I have to set the camera to around
f2.0 in order to get a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. If I
decrease the aperture to say f3.5, the shutter speed goes to like
1/30, which results in motion blur. What I’m wondering is this:
If the larger lens allows a faster shutter speed, then with the
DRebel set to f3.5 I might be able to get the shutter speed to be
1/60. However, the DOF with the DRebel at f3.5 may be much
shallower than the G2 at f2.0, requiring me to set the DRebel to
say, F5.0 (I’m pulling these numbers out of the air—sorry if they
don’t make sense), which then results in a shutter speed of less
than 1/60 and motion blur again. I hope that makes more sense.

4. How easy is it to manually focus and/or verify the focus with a
dSLR? The G2 was horrible for this. It was so hard to tell if you
were in focus or not using the LCD screen. I can’t begin to count
the number of times the photo looked OK on the screen, only to be
disappointed when I viewed it on my computer. (Granted my lack of
skills are to blame, but I’m hoping that the DRebel will help some).

5. What kinds of things do you have to learn to do
differently/habits that you had to break or “unlearn” with the
DRebel compared to the G2 when taking photos?

Sorry for the long post, but this will be a somewhat big investment
for me and I’d like to make sure that I’m making the right decision!

Thanks in advanced for all your help!

--
Chewie

Click to expand...

--
Jim (yah doesn't have to call me Jimmy)

--
Chewie

Former G2/G3/”prosumer” users—differences with DRebel?

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