Point $ Shoot Pirates

Andrew Thompson · Jan 30, 2004

Agreed, the day does belong to the bride and groom. WIth that in mind, as professionals we know we have one chance to get it right (you can't reshoot a wedding). Every situation is different, but if I'm given a 20 minute window by a church to take my formals it does require me to ensure I get all my shots in the alloted timeframe. I always gve people the opportunity to take a quick snapshot after I've gotten mine and then I quickly compose the next shot. As long as people respect my instructions (which usually isn't an issue) there aren't any issues. I just can't have shots taken simultaneously to mine (I care alot about properly exposed pictures).

On the rare occasion where someone is pushy and can potentially ruin a shoot, the best recourse is to reason with them tactfully and if that doesn't render good results then I explain to the bride the effect this can have on their pictures. Realistically, when all is said and done, people have memories of whether or not they had a good time at the wedding and don't want any excuses why their pictures didn't turn out the way they were hoping them to.

jkeitch said:
Doing this left us with a lot of positive comments for her. I think
you have to expect this at a wedding and accomadate for them. These
are all special people to the bride and groom and hey, it's there
day not yours.

Justin

photobug said:

sorry, I can't help it.

BCC said:

Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC

Click to expand...

--
photobug

Click to expand...

Vera · Jan 30, 2004

BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC

--I read a great answer about this months ago on this forum the photographer got the guests at a wedding completely onside by telling them go ahead and shoot now after he had taken his set up shots.
Vera

NNS · Jan 31, 2004

W Fenn said:
We always welcome guests and others to photograph alongside us at
weddings and other events. Yes they get in the way but they are
potential future customers and we make a point of getting along
with everyone when we are working. You would be surprisesd at the
number of times our good attitude is specifically mentioned when
someone is referred to us by a previous customer or sees us working
at a job then hires us for their job. YOU need to learn to cope. It
is not to your advantage to be adversarial to those around you when
working. I frequently feel that the guests photos make us shine
when the bride sees our photos after seeing some from the guests.
This justifies their decision to spend the money on a professional.

Regards,
W Fenn
http://www.fennfoto.com

Smoke24 · Jan 31, 2004

I think the added bonus of having a friend or relative taking snapshots of things they know will be of interest would be a great little added bonus at no extra charge. Their knowlege of the people and who and what to get pictures of would really help in getting wanted shots. It may cost you a little time to go through them and weed out any bad shots and print them to CD but the goodwill gained should be worth it. That one little gesture might even get you more work through recommendations. I wouldn't even consider the copyrights to these, just let it be known that it is a bonus you provide if they wish. I would however recommend that they have any prints made at my professional processors shop for best quality as they do any needed post processing or corrections.

I would retain the rights to all pics that I take with the professional equipment unless there is an agreement to buy the entire package with the rights to it. I would probably have a package price for this too and it be quite a bit more than any standard package price.

I have been to weddings and other events where there were few if any point and shooters taking additional pictures and have heard comments of the regret for that. They would be wishing they had shots of this person or that and no one got them. The pros focus is for the most part on the Bride, Groom, their attendants and parents and not nearly as much on others in the crowd, most of them don't really know the people anyway.

--
http://www.pbase.com/smoke24/galleries

Timothy110388 · Jan 31, 2004

First, shoot groups with a wide angle. That way you are standing very close to the group and no one can get a shot with out you in it.

Second, if you're that worried you must be doing something wrong. If you're not confident your pictures are going to look better than what Uncle Bob is doing then you better come up with something new.

BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC

--
http://www.timothymurray.com

fasteddy47 · Jan 31, 2004

I mentioned this on a previous post about a year ago...I was at a wedding being shot by a pretty famous Canadian Pro...Heres how he kept the pirates at bay...and how I do now when shooting posed group photos.

1 4 foot piece of Plastic pipe 1.5 inch diameter
1 Flash light (normal house hold style

1 Trailer Light Lens Red in color round pointy style a la cadillac from 60's most automotive parts stores carry them for about a buck.

Mount the flashlight on the plastic pipe...zap straps...black duct tape works, glue the red light lens on the top of the flashlight...

Ask the bride to explain to guests.... when the red light is on....please do not use your camera..

I shoot hundreds of team photos with this method... no more grief...no more over exposures...no more...strobe false flashes...

My assistant holds the pole...light is on...soon as I finished shooting she clicks it off... BANG instant barage of point & shoot flashes...

Peace
Eddy

Richard Shannon · Jan 31, 2004

IMHO What harm would it have been to give him your settings, he was just being curious, are you going to charge for your settings knowledge of your camera? Give me a break, you sound a bit snoody, and thats what made him go off, but i wasn't there.

Joe Farrugia said:
He asked me why i had switched off the lights, what aperture I was
using.

What would you have done?

I pretended to look the other way, looking for the head waiter;
when he repeated his request in a more insisting fashion.

Tinker Photo · Feb 1, 2004

read this here a while back.

take a spare strobe and turn it around backwards at full power...when they stand behind you and shoot the slave tripper on the strobe will blowout their highlits.

but really though the best way to deal with it is to have your strobes set up with a wireless remote and dont rely on a slave tripper

--
Clint Smith
Tinker Photography
If God is love, and love is blind . . . Ray Charles must be God!

Dimz · Feb 1, 2004

I cannot recall the amount of times I have tried to compose a good shot for something I was asked to do and someone comes and stands in front with a camera.

Whilst I would love to beat them on the head with the camera its just too expensive.

I usually find its best to just find the highest spot and rely on the zoom to compensate for where I could not be standing.

where that fails me, I just go somewhere else, even if the area is marked as "staff only" or has tape - I just go. Afterall who ever got a good picture by being afraid?

Tinker Photo said:
read this here a while back.

take a spare strobe and turn it around backwards at full
power...when they stand behind you and shoot the slave tripper on
the strobe will blowout their highlits.

but really though the best way to deal with it is to have your
strobes set up with a wireless remote and dont rely on a slave
tripper

--
Clint Smith
Tinker Photography
If God is love, and love is blind . . . Ray Charles must be God!

BCC · Feb 1, 2004

I really appreciate all the advice and ideas, so far the most appealing is to smile and act professional while beating them over the head with a tripod...

All kidding aside there were lots of good points made and they will all go into my tool bag.

Of particular frustration were the parents that stood behind me and took their own shots of the team photo session that I was hired to do by the league, I had given them a rock bottom price for the league's pictures in order to have rights to take orders from the parents. I felt those particular point and shoot pirates had their hands in my pocket book.

Other cases are just annoying such as this picture of the infamous uncle Harry. (He’s the one who has slipped in between the bride and groom). This guy was much more dangerous than a point & shoot pirate, he had a D60, a whole bag of gadgets, and a lot of determination. I started to brush him out of the pic but kept this copy to show new brides when we discuss "other photographers" at their weddings.

There’s no such thing as a total loss, it can always be used as a bad example" -anonymous

BobTrips · Feb 1, 2004

Tinker Photo said:
read this here a while back.

take a spare strobe and turn it around backwards at full
power...when they stand behind you and shoot the slave tripper on
the strobe will blowout their highlits.

I think that if I saw anyone pull a trick such as this it would be the last time they ever worked for anyone that I know.

(I'm generalizing here a bit. I'm guessing that anyone who would do this has an attitude problem.)

--
bob
Latest offering - 'Dusk on the Buriganga'
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
Shots from a bunch of places (esp. SEA and Nepal).
Pictures for friends, not necessarily my best.

http://www.trekearth.com/members/BobTrips/photos/
My better 'attempts'.

BobTrips · Feb 1, 2004

BCC said:
Other cases are just annoying such as this picture of the infamous
uncle Harry. (He’s the one who has slipped in between the bride
and groom). This guy was much more dangerous than a point & shoot
pirate, he had a D60, a whole bag of gadgets, and a lot of
determination. I started to brush him out of the pic but kept this
copy to show new brides when we discuss "other photographers" at
their weddings.

There’s no such thing as a total loss, it can always be used as a
bad example" -anonymous

--
bob
Latest offering - 'Dusk on the Buriganga'
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
Shots from a bunch of places (esp. SEA and Nepal).
Pictures for friends, not necessarily my best.

http://www.trekearth.com/members/BobTrips/photos/
My better 'attempts'.

LorenDJones · Feb 1, 2004

W Fenn said:
We always welcome guests and others to photograph alongside us at
weddings and other events. Yes they get in the way but they are
potential future customers and we make a point of getting along
with everyone when we are working. You would be surprisesd at the
number of times our good attitude is specifically mentioned when
someone is referred to us by a previous customer or sees us working
at a job then hires us for their job. YOU need to learn to cope. It

Good answer...I do the same. I figure if I can't produce a better image than their point and shoot, I probably shouldn't be collecting what I am from the ones who hired me. I know others disagree, but I've never seen an negative result from this positive approach in thirty years of shooting. Remember the Golden Rule!

-Loren

Smoke24 · Feb 1, 2004

I find that the EXIT sign also helps Uncle Harry to ruin that shot. I am sure you could post process them out but it is a good example of a well intentioned shooter ruining your shot. Would you ever really process that shot getting rid of the EXIT sign though?
--
http://www.pbase.com/smoke24/galleries

BCC · Feb 1, 2004

Smoke24 said:
I find that the EXIT sign also helps Uncle Harry to ruin that shot.
I am sure you could post process them out but it is a good example
of a well intentioned shooter ruining your shot. Would you ever
really process that shot getting rid of the EXIT sign though?
--
http://www.pbase.com/smoke24/galleries

That was the unprocessed file, in the printed copy Harry had taken the exit sign with him...

BCC · Feb 1, 2004

BobTrips said:
Tinker Photo said:

read this here a while back.

take a spare strobe and... blowout their highlits.

Click to expand...

I think that if I saw anyone pull a trick such as this it would be
the last time they ever worked for anyone that I know.

(I'm generalizing here a bit. I'm guessing that anyone who would
do this has an attitude problem.)

and while they're still blinded by the strobe, hit them with your monopod...

While I think Tinker Photo was venting more amuzment than frustration with the strob idea, he's not the first to mention it and as you've pointed out it would not be well received. But, If the authorized photographer were using flash triggered slaves and a lot of power to get good DOF, they would still trigger from the point & shoots and still over expose their shots. It would be a bit much for them to ask him to turn off his equipment so that they could shoot over his back. I know he could use remotes, wired or otherwise to avoid the issue (putting him back at the original issue) but would be your take on that?
thanks,
BCC

Joe Farrugia · Feb 1, 2004

Richard Shannon said:
IMHO What harm would it have been to give him your settings, he
was just being curious, are you going to charge for your settings
knowledge of your camera? Give me a break, you sound a bit snoody,
and thats what made him go off, but i wasn't there.

"Snoody"? Whatever that means; do you think I acted "snoody"?

I really was patient with this guy.

The point is he was getting in the way...... of the bride & groom, not me.

So you would find it appropriate to turn an invitation to someone's wedding into an occasion to pester the couple? I hope not.

As I made it perfectly clear, this guy was indeed pestering the couple.

Oh, BTW: yes, that is what we pros are paid for at weddings. For our creativity.... & also our technical knowledge. If he wants to learn photography, this pest chose a completely inappropriate time to ask such questions: during the couple's photo shoot!

I think the couple deserve to have a great day on their wedding.

Not being pestered by the pro...... much less by any pesky enthusiasts seeking to build a pBase portfolio at the couple's expense (of time).

Not let me make a point about your answer Richard.

I am not at all worried by casual snapshooters who wish to take a picture of the couple, as long as they don't interfere with the proceedings.

What I have found to be more troublesome is jealous amateurs who suddenly think they have reached Avedon status just 'cos they purchased a digital camera.

They are many times completely indignated that the bride has not approached THEM for her wedding photos.

Thay many times do their utmost to get in the pro's way, sometimes even after a reproach from the bride herself.

For some reason, they see the pro as an usurper to their "lost throne".

Richard, I do my utmost to humour these types. I try strike a balance between doing my job & carrying a (always technical) conversation with these people.

I have spoken to many such people; & their attitude is strikingly similar to the one expressed in your post. I hope it is just my (wrong) impression.

Regards,

--
JF

Rob Duke · Feb 1, 2004

I look at it this way...

I am hired to be the "pro shooter" at the event...

I am not concerned about anyone else with their pea shooters or for that matter someone who may have a nice DSLR...

I was hired and they were not...my pictures are being paid for and theirs are not...

This is usally not a problem anyway as most og the wedding I shoot NO-One is allowed to shoot flash at the ceremony...and I use extra slave flashes at the reception that tend to "screw up" everyone elses pictures.

This is not intentional only done to enhance "My" pictures; which are being paid for...

RD

BCC said:
Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC

John Duesterhoeft · Feb 2, 2004

Any time someone asks me for advice on hiring a wedding photog I give the following advice beyond the basics:

Make sure the photographer will not only allow, but cooperate with guests taking pictures. Its YOUR day, and YOUR guests. He SHOULD have some method to controll them though. The idea of allowing people to shoot just before you put a pose together is great.

Make sure the photographer uses radio slaves if he is using strobes. Anything less IMHO is not very professional.

Finally, curb the Uncle Harry's. If uncle Harry shows up with hit full kit uninvited it's your job to shut him down if you have not discussed it with the photog prior to the event.

If you do want Uncle Harry to help, ask the photog first and introduce Harry to him. You can truly get some stellar results by having muliple photogs IF they coorperate. A decision like this will likely result in a higher event rate from the pro... as it should. As a pro, I would be leery of this though.

Rob Duke said:
I am hired to be the "pro shooter" at the event...

I am not concerned about anyone else with their pea shooters or for
that matter someone who may have a nice DSLR...

I was hired and they were not...my pictures are being paid for and
theirs are not...

This is usally not a problem anyway as most og the wedding I shoot
NO-One is allowed to shoot flash at the ceremony...and I use extra
slave flashes at the reception that tend to "screw up" everyone
elses pictures.

This is not intentional only done to enhance "My" pictures; which
are being paid for...

RD

BCC said:

Has any one come up with a good way to discourage those folks that
pull our their own cameras at your professional shoot? I
experience this at weddings, team photos, and other events, a
non-confrontational solution would be welcomed
BCC

Click to expand...

ShootingD60 · Feb 2, 2004

to hold onto the power output cables as you trigger it with a slave unit.

--
I have a white lens (thanks to Tippex !)

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