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Am I S.O.L. if I don't own an L-Series Lens?
- Thread starter Adrian Joseph Roy
- Start date
mcorrea
Well-known member
Adrian,
I just wanted to add that, even though nothing replaces tons of practice, it can also help to read about photography (to learn those few tricks of the trade that would take you much longer to figure out on your own), especially about composition and technique, not just gear. Watch other people's work that you like and then try to recreate it. Take advantage of all the nice people around here: post pictures and get feedback.
About L lenses: There are some advantages to them, but they won't make you instantly get the wow factor, nor are they a must in order to get the wow factor. I'd say that some advantages to them are: fast and quiet autofocusing, brighter preview image (bc of wider max aperture), shallower DOF (also bc of wider max aperture), they take much more punishment (important for a pro who shoots out in the field), they probably respond much better to backlight (less flare), they'll have less barrel and/or pincushion distortion.
Now, all these characteristics can help you get some shots that you couldn´t with a consumer lens. But with a consumer lens, you can get most pics, and you can definitely get that wow factor if you hone your skills.
Matias
--
Matias
'If all else fails; read the instructions.'
I just wanted to add that, even though nothing replaces tons of practice, it can also help to read about photography (to learn those few tricks of the trade that would take you much longer to figure out on your own), especially about composition and technique, not just gear. Watch other people's work that you like and then try to recreate it. Take advantage of all the nice people around here: post pictures and get feedback.
About L lenses: There are some advantages to them, but they won't make you instantly get the wow factor, nor are they a must in order to get the wow factor. I'd say that some advantages to them are: fast and quiet autofocusing, brighter preview image (bc of wider max aperture), shallower DOF (also bc of wider max aperture), they take much more punishment (important for a pro who shoots out in the field), they probably respond much better to backlight (less flare), they'll have less barrel and/or pincushion distortion.
Now, all these characteristics can help you get some shots that you couldn´t with a consumer lens. But with a consumer lens, you can get most pics, and you can definitely get that wow factor if you hone your skills.
Matias
--
Matias
'If all else fails; read the instructions.'
ron mcmillan
Leading Member
As usual, exaggeration when the facts would suffice. Julio and I had differing views on what was interesting and what was not. We discussed it offline by email in a fun and uncaustic manner, and while talking about actual photography. Unlike what you're trying to do here. Caustic and photography-free. Congratulations.
Apologies, heading to bed in a minute - haven't read the other replies, will try tomorrow.
Why am I responding now? I think it is important not to become disheartened. If you are a new (D)SLR shooter, you are unlikely to take wow! shots right off, or even all that often.
Remember what you see posted and round is what people SELECT to show. If I were going to hand my laundry out to dry it would sure be clean right? People post (usually) there best because that is the name of the game.
For you, you are learning, if you are new to DSLR there is a LOT to learn. A P&S is supposed to do most everything for you, because it is about giving results right out of the camera, not about (primarily) creativity, art and freedom. (Some liberty taking there because of course it is possible to create and do real art with a P&S, let me take a roll though).
You are unlikley to be able to get up and running with all new kit in zero time (or even quite a bit of time) and turn out image after image as you might see from others. A lot of people on these boards are pro/semi-pro or very serious amateurs who take literally thousands of shots a month. That is a process called practice, and most of them have been doing it for years. They are intimately familiar with their equipment and usually their subjects too (i.e. how to shoot them). You are probably on a learning curve right now that is steep. As with everything there are periods of growth and periods of frustration - stick with it.
Hey, look on the bright side - you are learning with digital, at least you can keep shooting with what you have at no cost - paying for film would suck right?!
You are worried about your 28-135? Don't be, fantastic lens. Take a look at some of the images here : http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_28135_35 . Also http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_75300_4iiiu for your tele.
At the end of the day, this is equipment that has to be learned, you need to learn, then you need to learn some more. You have to keep shooting and practice, get people to critique your shots, even if it just with your wife, a friend or online. Ask them what they like/dislike about them. Look at people's photos and ask yourself WHY do they work? Is it just the image quality (sharpness, colour) or is it the shot, composition, timing, story? Every great photo has a balance, but I believe the taking of the shot to usually outweigh the equipment.
You have perfectly good equipment - sure L glass might get you more shots, easier working in bad light, a little more contrast and such, but you still need to compose and catch the shot, the glass can only get you there as they say.
Keep taking, review what you take and say, this worked, this didn't work. If you feel your shots are really badly let down by your equipment ask yourself why - were you trying to do something it couldn't or could it not do something it should? Most times if you read back to first principals we expect all our fancy gadgets to save us from the old photography problems and dare I say rules. Often the kit does save us, but sometimes we forget we are still dealing with light, motion and time. I don't think there is any short cut to putting in a lot of work. Some people are very talented and can see shots, most people I think just work very very hard at getting it a little bit better each time.
Why am I responding now? I think it is important not to become disheartened. If you are a new (D)SLR shooter, you are unlikely to take wow! shots right off, or even all that often.
Remember what you see posted and round is what people SELECT to show. If I were going to hand my laundry out to dry it would sure be clean right? People post (usually) there best because that is the name of the game.
For you, you are learning, if you are new to DSLR there is a LOT to learn. A P&S is supposed to do most everything for you, because it is about giving results right out of the camera, not about (primarily) creativity, art and freedom. (Some liberty taking there because of course it is possible to create and do real art with a P&S, let me take a roll though).
You are unlikley to be able to get up and running with all new kit in zero time (or even quite a bit of time) and turn out image after image as you might see from others. A lot of people on these boards are pro/semi-pro or very serious amateurs who take literally thousands of shots a month. That is a process called practice, and most of them have been doing it for years. They are intimately familiar with their equipment and usually their subjects too (i.e. how to shoot them). You are probably on a learning curve right now that is steep. As with everything there are periods of growth and periods of frustration - stick with it.
Hey, look on the bright side - you are learning with digital, at least you can keep shooting with what you have at no cost - paying for film would suck right?!
You are worried about your 28-135? Don't be, fantastic lens. Take a look at some of the images here : http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_28135_35 . Also http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_75300_4iiiu for your tele.
At the end of the day, this is equipment that has to be learned, you need to learn, then you need to learn some more. You have to keep shooting and practice, get people to critique your shots, even if it just with your wife, a friend or online. Ask them what they like/dislike about them. Look at people's photos and ask yourself WHY do they work? Is it just the image quality (sharpness, colour) or is it the shot, composition, timing, story? Every great photo has a balance, but I believe the taking of the shot to usually outweigh the equipment.
You have perfectly good equipment - sure L glass might get you more shots, easier working in bad light, a little more contrast and such, but you still need to compose and catch the shot, the glass can only get you there as they say.
Keep taking, review what you take and say, this worked, this didn't work. If you feel your shots are really badly let down by your equipment ask yourself why - were you trying to do something it couldn't or could it not do something it should? Most times if you read back to first principals we expect all our fancy gadgets to save us from the old photography problems and dare I say rules. Often the kit does save us, but sometimes we forget we are still dealing with light, motion and time. I don't think there is any short cut to putting in a lot of work. Some people are very talented and can see shots, most people I think just work very very hard at getting it a little bit better each time.
Charlie Liu
Leading Member
Totally agree
I use to just do illustration, life drawing and sometimes painting for 10 to 15 years where I learn composition how light shadow and shade work and interact with object...still life or life...and it is good way to start and I am still learning.
last year, I start to shoot product photography professionally, but still think myself as a beginner.
I own one 10D and one L zoom lens
Before that i use a AE-1 and a 35mm film shooting Arch and building... about half year only B and w it force myself to learn with limited visiual aspect.
I believe to have a WOW pic ... is like to produce a fine Art and it can be any style.... image (painting or photo) can always produce from Realism to Abstraction.
I now shooting more then 2000pics during the peek of business month but only few hundreds can be sold... and as a beginner in commercial photography i am stilll learning and with good digital camera such as 10D it enable us to shoot and review in real time with such power we learn in real time. Digital give the photographer a new life in learning photography.
so there is no reason why not we go out and shoot more and after that there is no chemical to mess with and the more u shoot the chance are u will get as many WOW pics as u want..
enjoy
I personally think it is so good
I use to just do illustration, life drawing and sometimes painting for 10 to 15 years where I learn composition how light shadow and shade work and interact with object...still life or life...and it is good way to start and I am still learning.
last year, I start to shoot product photography professionally, but still think myself as a beginner.
I own one 10D and one L zoom lens
Before that i use a AE-1 and a 35mm film shooting Arch and building... about half year only B and w it force myself to learn with limited visiual aspect.
I believe to have a WOW pic ... is like to produce a fine Art and it can be any style.... image (painting or photo) can always produce from Realism to Abstraction.
I now shooting more then 2000pics during the peek of business month but only few hundreds can be sold... and as a beginner in commercial photography i am stilll learning and with good digital camera such as 10D it enable us to shoot and review in real time with such power we learn in real time. Digital give the photographer a new life in learning photography.
so there is no reason why not we go out and shoot more and after that there is no chemical to mess with and the more u shoot the chance are u will get as many WOW pics as u want..
enjoy
I personally think it is so good
Charlie Liu
Leading Member
I use to just do illustration, life drawing and sometimes painting for 10 to 15 years where I learn composition how light shadow and shade work and interact with object...still life or life...and it is good way to start and I am still learning.
last year, I start to shoot product photography professionally, but still think myself as a beginner.
I own one 10D and one L zoom lens
Before that i use a AE-1 and a 35mm film shooting Arch and building... about half year only B and w it force myself to learn with limited visiual aspect.
I believe to have a WOW pic ... is like to produce a fine Art and it can be any style.... image (painting or photo) can always produce from Realism to Abstraction.
I now shooting more then 2000pics during the peek of business month but only few hundreds can be sold... and as a beginner in commercial photography i am stilll learning and with good digital camera such as 10D it enable us to shoot and review in real time with such power we learn in real time. Digital give the photographer a new life in learning photography.
so there is no reason why not we go out and shoot more and after that there is no chemical to mess with and the more u shoot the chance are u will get as many WOW pics as u want..
enjoy
last year, I start to shoot product photography professionally, but still think myself as a beginner.
I own one 10D and one L zoom lens
Before that i use a AE-1 and a 35mm film shooting Arch and building... about half year only B and w it force myself to learn with limited visiual aspect.
I believe to have a WOW pic ... is like to produce a fine Art and it can be any style.... image (painting or photo) can always produce from Realism to Abstraction.
I now shooting more then 2000pics during the peek of business month but only few hundreds can be sold... and as a beginner in commercial photography i am stilll learning and with good digital camera such as 10D it enable us to shoot and review in real time with such power we learn in real time. Digital give the photographer a new life in learning photography.
so there is no reason why not we go out and shoot more and after that there is no chemical to mess with and the more u shoot the chance are u will get as many WOW pics as u want..
enjoy
Roy van der Woning
Senior Member
Okay, I'll go out on a limb and turn the other cheek.
Why is it that you dedicate so many posts to denouncing the subject at hand as fatuous, stupid, nonsense, a waste, anally-retentive, lame, ignorant (to name but a few examples for which I didn't have to go past the first page of your posting history) instead of swinging the balance to whatever you consider to be the positive side by contributing something we can all benefit from and (here it comes) doing that in a non-acidic manner.
It really is such a waste to see this incessant negativism from you while I'm sure your experience allows you to be of great value to the collective wisdom of this forum. I honestly wonder what you gain from your attitude, and I'm not asking that to pounce on you.
You've been on this forum for almost two years, so you obviously enjoy being here for one reason or another. Assuming that this reason is not a desire to belittle other contributors or to complain about everything that doesn't fit your view on reality, why is it that you reward that enjoyment with such bitterness?
Roy.
ron mcmillan
Leading Member
Thanks for toning it down and asking questions, Roy.
Yes, I do voice my criticisms when I think a thread is a complete waste of band-width (as is this 'how long is a piece of string' nonsense thread), but if you get past those posts you will find a lot of involvement in past discussions that have something to do with the actual making of pictures.
Yes, I do have a lot of experience, and I'm often very happy, eager even, to share that experience. If my involvement in genuine threads with a degree of photography-related merit in this forum is falling away, perhaps that's a reflection of something that bothers me -- grumpy old man or not -- and that is a near-absence of discussion that is actually ANYTHING to do with photography. Of course, the easy repost is to tell me to stay away if I don't like what's going on, but I'd argue that the overflow of geeky nonsense is turning off a lot of folks with something to offer.
A case in point is the Lighting Technique forum which, only a few months ago, used to be full of interesting talk of genuine technical merit, (even if it often got heated), discussion that anyone wanting to actually LEARN something could benefit from, thanks to the participation of some very accomplished lighting experts. Now, the lighting forum is near-dead, a graveyard of post after post along the lines of 'Look at my first ever portrait with my new ABs -- please critique, but don't say anything negative or all my fellow beginners will flame you to death, never mind if you actually know what you are talking about.'
This forum used to boast a fair deal of interesting, engaging discussion of genuine issues to do with photography. Now it seems to be degenerating to a litany of bullsh!t 'surveys' and uselessly rhetorical techno-geekery.
And that is a darn shame.
ron
Yes, I do voice my criticisms when I think a thread is a complete waste of band-width (as is this 'how long is a piece of string' nonsense thread), but if you get past those posts you will find a lot of involvement in past discussions that have something to do with the actual making of pictures.
Yes, I do have a lot of experience, and I'm often very happy, eager even, to share that experience. If my involvement in genuine threads with a degree of photography-related merit in this forum is falling away, perhaps that's a reflection of something that bothers me -- grumpy old man or not -- and that is a near-absence of discussion that is actually ANYTHING to do with photography. Of course, the easy repost is to tell me to stay away if I don't like what's going on, but I'd argue that the overflow of geeky nonsense is turning off a lot of folks with something to offer.
A case in point is the Lighting Technique forum which, only a few months ago, used to be full of interesting talk of genuine technical merit, (even if it often got heated), discussion that anyone wanting to actually LEARN something could benefit from, thanks to the participation of some very accomplished lighting experts. Now, the lighting forum is near-dead, a graveyard of post after post along the lines of 'Look at my first ever portrait with my new ABs -- please critique, but don't say anything negative or all my fellow beginners will flame you to death, never mind if you actually know what you are talking about.'
This forum used to boast a fair deal of interesting, engaging discussion of genuine issues to do with photography. Now it seems to be degenerating to a litany of bullsh!t 'surveys' and uselessly rhetorical techno-geekery.
And that is a darn shame.
ron
Roy van der Woning
Senior Member
A lot of what you say sounds familiar to me. You're not the first, and certainly not the last to be burdened by a perceived high signal to noise ratio in this fora (I'm saying perceived because everyone experiences this to a different extent).
Just like it's hard for you to let the threads you find to be useless go by without a comment, I still find it challenging to separate information from presentation (as you probably noticed). It's much easier for me to discuss dinner recipies with an amicable character than exposure technique with someone who's got the personality of a porcupine. And mind you, I'm no chef.
On the other hand, I think there's two kinds of off-topic threads. The really inane I'm-bored-and-you-should-be-too kind, and those who (at least attempt to) create or strengthen the community spirit in this place. I agree, our respective birth dates have no bearing on photography at all, but judging from the number of responses, many (including myself) enjoy that occasional peek into the person behind the screen name. It helps me to keep the discussions from becoming too sterile.
I certainly don't advocate a high percentage of off-topic posts, but I do feel that some "noise" is needed to keep things lively and to help me remind that we are all people with lives that don't revolve around photography exclusively. That it is those lives that many of us try to capture and convey by means of kid, cat/dog, vacation, etc. pictures.
Perhaps the broad audience that this site attracts has a need for such trivialities. The dedicated professionalism you seek can probably best be found at sites that target a likeminded audience, such as Michael Reichman's and Rob Galbraith's.
Roy.
Just like it's hard for you to let the threads you find to be useless go by without a comment, I still find it challenging to separate information from presentation (as you probably noticed). It's much easier for me to discuss dinner recipies with an amicable character than exposure technique with someone who's got the personality of a porcupine. And mind you, I'm no chef.
On the other hand, I think there's two kinds of off-topic threads. The really inane I'm-bored-and-you-should-be-too kind, and those who (at least attempt to) create or strengthen the community spirit in this place. I agree, our respective birth dates have no bearing on photography at all, but judging from the number of responses, many (including myself) enjoy that occasional peek into the person behind the screen name. It helps me to keep the discussions from becoming too sterile.
I certainly don't advocate a high percentage of off-topic posts, but I do feel that some "noise" is needed to keep things lively and to help me remind that we are all people with lives that don't revolve around photography exclusively. That it is those lives that many of us try to capture and convey by means of kid, cat/dog, vacation, etc. pictures.
Perhaps the broad audience that this site attracts has a need for such trivialities. The dedicated professionalism you seek can probably best be found at sites that target a likeminded audience, such as Michael Reichman's and Rob Galbraith's.
Roy.
photosniper
Leading Member
Your problem is not the glass, its your technique. SLRs are a different animal. I recommend shooting RAW and post-processing the RAWs with the amount of saturation/sharpness you wish. L glass outresolves the 10D sensor so you will not notice a huge difference, L glass buys you fast lenses ie: 1.4 24mm, 2.0 135mm etc..
People assume that moving up to SLR = pro pictures, which is not the case SLR+technique+skill+experience = pro picture.
I suggest you buy a 50mm 1.8 and start taking pictures with that and buy a book on the basic principles of photography.
People assume that moving up to SLR = pro pictures, which is not the case SLR+technique+skill+experience = pro picture.
I suggest you buy a 50mm 1.8 and start taking pictures with that and buy a book on the basic principles of photography.
VicHersh
Active member
Roy you are right, there is a major difference, what did you do? I assume you bumped the exposure a full stop, add some contrast and sharpened a bit. am I right.
Vic in Sacramento
Vic in Sacramento
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