Nice analogy Gary....I have had both old girl friends and ex-wives (to toss in ) as well as old cameras that fall under that category that you mentioned. Beautifully stated man.
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Why OM1 Style and not Pen F with the OM3
- Thread starter Jaime100
- Start date
Mystique and style sells a lot of things. Just ask the car body designers or fashion houses.
Yes who cares what it does when it hits a marketing spot even if that is after it has been discontinued. As both of us know with the GM5 trajectory. Knowing that it will never be repeated in another version..
I have given it a miss as especially RF-Style bodies of all brands do not work well with side hinged lcd units for practical purposes even with the benefit of folding the screen inwards to help pretend that is is not a ML body but a styled influence towards a nostalgic film era body.
I have never had any issues with any of my bodies where the lcd surface has always been exposed. I only take side hinged lcd units under sufferance on all my camera bodies a increasingly the tilt screens are no longer being offered.
I nearly bought a new Pen-F but declined because of that hinged lcd - never regretted that decision.
James Stirling
Forum Pro
Amazon
So you have no actual evidence at all just some fanciful extrapolating with zero useful information . Based on a naive interpretation of manufacturing costs , whilst Olympus exec themselves stated that it had not met their sales expectations not that Olympus execs have a strong record on honest declarations . FT wasn't being dumped till it was , Olympus were not leaving the camera market till they did and so on . The model was discontinued and no follow up was ever made going back 9yrs now not a sign of a top seller
That is what you do for a product that 1) still sells reasonably well after 4 years near it's RRP, and/or 2) has too low a profit margin for you to discount it without loosing too much money (eg you can't make a second batch to be sold at 30 or 40% less, as is done to make a profit with an obsolete model by selling in quantity, with the reasoning the first batch sold at RRP pays for the R&D and the next batch costs only half as much to make).
I would take those numbers with a pinch of salt for some crazy reason random folk post they own gear or had gear even when the camera is not in the shops. Not just OM/Olympus fans it makes no sense to me . Then there are those who bought items at discounted used prices ( before the Pen-F used prices climbed) It has held its value better than most m43 except the GM5 . More than likely for the same reason, low volume of sales low volume of used models and a small but keen fan base inflating the used prices by paying over the odds
Every time a new Olympus OM now model comes out we get the same old nonsense about how well it will do or how well it did. Meanwhile Olympus paid to get rid of their eternally money losing camera division off their hands , m43 market share continues to decline even in their home market the one location where the did best they have fallen out of the top three.
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Jim Stirling:
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Guy Parsons
Forum Pro
The Japanese scene as observed by me on holidays there in 2009, 2011 saw many young women (mostly) carrying E-PL or E-P products and many more compacts like the Casio models which were extremely popular and that was exactly their target audience in their advertising at the time. A later visit in 2014 still saw a few E-PL/P type with young women but really, most seem to have moved on to using smartphones.
Older men with backpacks and tripods dangling had more complete system cameras of whatever type, they were the "serious" shooters.
Occasional 4/3 or M4/3 gear seen, mostly with Euro tourists.
For my visits...
- 2009 only took Panasonic LX3, perfect, so easy with a small belt pouch.
- 2011 E-PL1 plus whatever lenses at the time, OK results but more cumbersome.
- 2014 E-P5 plus 12-40/2.8 mostly, way better and easier results.
In olden days they fitted 4 people per square, not they only fit two people per square.
cba_melbourne
Veteran Member
But just who from Olympus ever said it did'nt sell?
Olympus CEO said years after the launch "it did not meet expectations". CEO's care about profitability, not numbers sold. The Pen-F, unlike other cameras, was never heavily discounted to sell more.
The proven method of selling the first camera batch at or near an over-the-top RRP and with it cover R&D cost, then sell the next batch at a huge discount because it is now on paper cheaper to make, does not work with a super premium anniversary edition camera that is very expensive to manufacture.
Anniversary cameras are made to celebrate an anniversary, in this case 80 years of camera making. You make a batch and sell it. Other makers make gold plated anniversary cameras, limited edition, in wooden box, numbered, for collectors. Olympus made a Pen-F with exclusive no-visible-screws instead. I do not think they ever planned to make a second batch. An anniversary is only for one year once after all. And this was the very last one for Olympus, the camera division did not live for the 85th.
What the Olympus CEO said was not that it did not sell, all Pen-F's did sell out with no more than 20% discount on the very last few items in stock 4 years after launch. What he meant is that the Pen-F, as intended as a marketing action to push the brand recognition, failed to save the imaging division. Because when he said "did not meet expections", he was already searching for someone to take over the division. Despite issuing a press release that Olympus was not trying to sell the division.
Maybe because Fuji can't make enough X100 to satisfy demand? There is a wait list, you know? It has been on back order for over a year now, and demand is so high the prices have inflated to an obscene degree. Fuji has built a new factory in China for the X100 vi to better meet demand - it is now the first Fuji camera in this series not to be made in Japan. That should tell you something about that "somewhat small" rangefinder style market you fantasize about.
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The EP7 is not available in North America. Those who have it have bought it from Japan. It's easy to open a Japan Amazon account. I can't speak for how popular it is in Europe. Same as with the NA, a few people in this forum have the EP-7. It's a nice little camera, very light. Mostly plastic, but has aluminum capped wheels on the top. Looks especially nice with a silver P12 - 32mm. In Japan it did go on backorder this past summer or fall, can't remember exactly when. I think that would mean they did another production run.
cba_melbourne
Veteran Member
Amazon
So you have no actual evidence at all just some fanciful extrapolating with zero useful information . Based on a naive interpretation of manufacturing costs , whilst Olympus exec themselves stated that it had not met their sales expectations
That is what you do for a product that 1) still sells reasonably well after 4 years near it's RRP, and/or 2) has too low a profit margin for you to discount it without loosing too much money (eg you can't make a second batch to be sold at 30 or 40% less, as is done to make a profit with an obsolete model by selling in quantity, with the reasoning the first batch sold at RRP pays for the R&D and the next batch costs only half as much to make).
I looked it up:
That was in May 2018. 3 years after the Pen-F was released. It took 5 years to sell the last black Pen-F, the more demanded silver version was sold out after 4 years. I believe there only ever was one batch, as would be consistent with an anniversary camera.
But anniversary cameras are a one off, they never have a same follow up. I think the EP7 was still planned/designed by Olympus though, it can be seen as a low cost entry level continuation of the Pen-F line.
I would take those numbers with a pinch of salt for some crazy reason random folk post they own gear or had gear even when the camera is not in the shops. Not just OM/Olympus fans it makes no sense to me . Then there are those who bought items at discounted used prices ( before the Pen-F used prices climbed) It has held its value better than most m43 except the GM5 . More than likely for the same reason, low volume of sales low volume of used models and a small but keen fan base inflating the used prices by paying over the odds
Every time a new Olympus OM now model comes out we get the same old nonsense about how well it will do or how well it did. Meanwhile Olympus paid to get rid of their eternally money losing camera division off their hands , m43 market share continues to decline even in their home market the one location where the did best they have fallen out of the top three.
Rollei 35! ;-)
Agreed, we'll not see another PEN F. If you have one, don't sell it! Same as there will not be a GX10.
If you want to see hobbyists in Tokyo with a camera generally I see them the most around nice botanical gardens and at festivals. I do see full frame and bridge cameras carried by women in the gardens. Like everywhere else the smartphone has taken over. I've seen young Japanese women with the E-P7 in Shinjuku and in Yoyogi Park.
Yes, again either in parks or in the spring when the cherry blossoms bloom.
Occasional 4/3 or M4/3 gear seen, mostly with Euro tourists.
For my visits...
A fisheye view of inside an historic Kabuki theatre in Kotohira, on Shikoku Island, Japan.
- 2009 only took Panasonic LX3, perfect, so easy with a small belt pouch.
- 2011 E-PL1 plus whatever lenses at the time, OK results but more cumbersome.
- 2014 E-P5 plus 12-40/2.8 mostly, way better and easier results.
In olden days they fitted 4 people per square, not they only fit two people per square.
I can't pass on this Tom. Sorry! A FAS was not acceptable on a PEN F, but it's ok on a G100?
This online shop is reputable here, they sell excellent to mint condition 2nd hand/refurbished cameras. Pen F still retain its value, even higher than their retail price here back in 2018/19. Here a screen shot for today price from the shop
cheers
cba_melbourne
Veteran Member
Yes, for one it always was a collector camera, anniversary cameras always are, gold plated in wooden box, or humble with no visible screws like the Pen-F.This online shop is reputable here, they sell excellent to mint condition 2nd hand/refurbished cameras. Pen F still retain its value, even higher than their retail price here back in 2018/19. Here a screen shot for today price from the shop
cheers
After the last unit was sold in 2022 for US$899, prices exploded. For an as new mint condition Pen-F you can now expect to pay over US$2,000. And even well used well scratched ones with paint polished off its edges, can still fetch US$900.
cba_melbourne
Veteran Member
The 60 year anniversary edition?
Or the blue Royal Urushi?
Or the green Royal Urushi?
Or maybe the 75 year Anniversary edition?
Special editions are only made, because there are collectors out there buying them. Why could Olympus not treat a Pen-F to such a small batch series? They would have sold maybe 50 or 100 for $5k each. I would seriously consider one, and no I would not care about bad AF in low light
. It would be to collect, look at, display and maybe take out twice a year.My standard silver Rollei 35S was 430 Swiss Francs in 1974, I saved one year for it on a second year apprentice wage.
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gary0319
Forum Pro
I am curious, too. I have both the E-M10 IV and the OM-5. With the advent of the OM-3 that leaves these two as the rumps of the litter. A smash up of the two with a detuned stacked sensor would be getting a pretty had look from me.
cba_melbourne
Veteran Member
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Skeeterbytes
Forum Pro
Our NorCal regional rep said it did not sell well.
So there's one.
Rick
So there's one.
Rick
Some will never be satisfied. All I can say is that, having handled the OM-3, I found it a delightful tool that makes me want to go out and shoot. At the end of the day, that's all that matters - to me, at least. Some will disagree, but that's their choice.
It was not the "Olympus CEO" and he did mention selling. In a 2018 interview by Dave Etchells, Shigemi Sugimoto, Head of Olympus Corp. Imaging Business Unit said the following:
"Yes. And the selling situation has almost meet our expectation."
Hiroyuki Sasa was CEO of Olympus at the time. Sugimoto is now CEO of OM System as he continues his leadership he began at Olympus Imaging. He did not say whether or not it was profitable. All we know is, sales did not meet expectation.
No but it was cheap, fun to use and up to date. I would have preferred tilt but increasingly there are no tilters made. So I buy the G9, G9II and G100 with side hinge and pretend that they are indeed fixed lcd which is my second choice. I am not too proud to swing the thing every now and then when I am desperate. But I like the tilt as it is no bother until you need to use the simple tilt. But walking around with your swingout swung out is a nerdic bother and looks stupid. Same as staring intently through it was out is not a great photographic stance. I use the evf mainly and only move my screens when truly necessary for the shot.I can't pass on this Tom. Sorry! A FAS was not acceptable on a PEN F, but it's ok on a G100?
I still think RF-Style bodies and sde hinged lcd don't mix and we can see that these cameras when introduced have not been big sellers.
Heck I managed with fixed lcd dslr bodies for years and the GM series lcd is fixed.
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