Focus Problems

Tbh, most of the soft images look like atmospherics to me. Looking at the bokeh, it looks 'nervous' or otherwise not as smooth as it should.

Do you have IBIS on? If so, I'd turn that off, or set it to Sport, when using high shutter speed or moving the camera while shooting.

Rob Bedows said:

So, I got the Z8 but I've been having big time focus problems and hoping the forum can help me out. While my hit rate is pretty low, I have gotten some really good shots although I'm not sure there's rhyme or reason to it. I've tried most modes and subject detection options. Animals seems to be the best SD mode when I hit the eye. The others, who knows.. The EXIF should show in the photos and I'll list what I can about the shots.

This one I'm happy with. 300PF with 1.4 TC and the Z caught the eye pretty well.

This one, not so much. Same lens combo with Single point that caught the lettering on the truck. Why blurry at 1/6400?

Same lens combo. Used SP. The point was actually just above the bird's head.

Same lens, WA(s) with th point between the bill and the eye. Good feather detail on the head.

This one with my new to me 100-400. WA(s) with point right on the eye. Impressive to me.

Same lens, not impressive. WA(s) with focus point touching license plate and right headlight. Why blurred with fast shutter speed. Vehicle SD for this and the next two.

WA(s) again, FP on license plate and bumper.

WA(l) for this one, FP on license plate. Vehicle SD.

Dynamic medium, FP on "Border". Why blurred at 1/2000?

WA(s) again, FP right on emblem on lower sign.

So, I've got many out of focus shots and some satisfactory. Had the same problem when I tried the Z on a tripod and a monopod. I got the Z8 in anticipation of our late March safari trip. I like a lot of the features but the focus problems are a conundrum. I'm coming from a D810 (which I still use and like) but I wanted a faster frame rate and better auto focus. Ironically, I had a much higher hit rate with the 810. Thanks for any comments or ideas. I can use them

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The squirrel is in focus, the truck looks softer, but there could be atmospheric conditions to blame there.

Both the Canada goose shots look in focus to me where they need to be, but maybe the lens with the TC is not giving you the best quality for 46 megapixels. Maybe the lens is not resolving the sensor well enough.

What focus mode did you use for the cars? What are your autofocus settings as far as erratic or steady, tracking set to ?? Are you using AF-C single point, or Auto area, etc?

Since birds in flight is one of the more difficult things to capture, watch this video if you haven't already:







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I've (unfortunately) got a few hundred soft images and except for maybe a few long shots I don't think it's atmospheric. It's been pretty cold here so not much much in the way of heat distortion. Also, I've got thousands of shots with the 810 at all kinds of focal lengths and can usual tell when atmospherics are a problem. Thanks for your response.

Rob Bedows said:

I've (unfortunately) got a few hundred soft images and except for maybe a few long shots I don't think it's atmospheric. It's been pretty cold here so not much much in the way of heat distortion

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You were shooting over parking lots and roads. Infamous for atmospherics. Especially from grass, or otherwise not on the road.

I've actually tried shooting with IBIS on and off. I know there are questions about if it matters with new cameras and lenses and I've not had enough experience with all lenses to offer a judgement on that. One thing I do wish the Z lenses had was an external lens switch to turn off VR, similar to what the F mount lenses I have. Don't know yet if I can program a button for that.

Are the car and truck photos cropped, or full frame? I would agree on being disappointed if these are full frame uncropped and not post processed images. Have you contacted Nikon about this. Surely they can make it right, but this isn't right.

True, but I've had the problem at very close ranges as well. This one was at close range and 1/1600. Still not sharp.

Rob Bedows said:

True, but I've had the problem at very close ranges as well. This one was at close range and 1/1600. Still not sharp.

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is that a deep crop? If so, I'd consider that acceptable if so.

The background still looks a bit fuzzy, like atmospherics are at play. Your in house (in a controlled environment) shot is sharp. I'd consider verifying you're not using a lens hood, etc, as there's lot that can bite you.

The cars were WA(s) with AFC and the FP on the license plates. I can't remember if I used auto or vehicle SD. It doesn't really seem to make a difference.

They are cropped and PPd to a degree in PS, mostly to show the details. It worked well for the squirrel and the geese, not so much for the others. I've tried most SD modes and many combos of shutter and aperture. I've gotten some good hits in all modes but most are misses with the exception of sitting in the house stationary shots. Most of those have worked out (as in the rabbit bookend photo) with all of the lens combos I've tried.

Rob Bedows said:

The cars were WA(s) with AFC and the FP on the license plates. I can't remember if I used auto or vehicle SD. It doesn't really seem to make a difference.

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Try using AF-C 3D tracking with subject detection either turned on, or off. See if that helps. That's what I use most of the time for almost everything I shoot. I get a ton of keepers.

That being said, older adapted lenses with TC attached may not be as quick to focus on some of these subjects. The Z 100-400mm is the one to try it with, since it's a native mount with all the bells and whistles. Make sure to set the VR to "Sports" when using fast shutter speeds.

The 100-400 is new to me this past week so I've only had a few times to try it out. Doesn't help that it's single digits and mostly cloudy outside. I tried 3D on the Z with some other lenses but only a little bit and haven't tried it at all on the 100-400. Not many fast moving critters, two legged or 4, out and about with these temps. I did try both sport, regular and off with the 300PF. Not sure if it made a difference.

I did buy Steve Perry's e-book on setting up the camera for wildlife. The guys knows his stuff and there's lots of info on his forums. I'll try to get out and try 3D more and keep the VR in mind. That being said, I've shot tripod mounted and hand held, VR in all positions, but still having focus issues. More practice I guess and I surely hope it's not the camera. Since I get a small percentage of good hits with no rhyme or reason, I figure it's me and not the equipment. Thanks for the thoughts.

I don't think it's a focus problem because nothing in the blurry shots are in focus. It looks like heat haze to me.. Were you shooting from inside a warm car or were the camera and lens hood still warm when you took these shots? You can get heat haze from a warm lens hood and single digit temperatures. The background in the blurry photos have that weird heat haze look to them. If you still have your D810 why don't you go out with both cameras and shoot them one after the other. If the D810 looks fine then you know the Z8 has a problem.

Were you outside in the open air, in a vehicle or other enclosed space when making the above photos? I ask because any photo made from an enclosed, heated space - shooting through an open car window, building door or window - will be subject to distortion from the mixing of cold outside air and warmer inside air.

You mentioned in another post that the photos have been cropped and processed prior to being uploaded. Please, upload a few examples that are full-sized and unprocessed. If you have raw files, JPEGs from the uncropped, unprocessed raws will be best. In-camera JPEGs have already been processed.

Subject detect autofocus is great for birds, wildlife and people as it will identify and focus on the eye of a moving subject. When using subject detect, I get the best results pairing that with wide area (small), wide area (large) or wide area (c1) using a frame that isolates a specific bird, animal or person. If the subject is the only thing in the frame, the background isn't competing, or if the subject is moving erratically, 3D or Auto-area can follow and keep a focus point locked on the eye. Candidly, I find myself relying less and less on those modes with birds and wildlife.

When photographing a static inanimate subject (building, parked car, landscape), use AF-S, single-point to grab focus on the spot you want to be the viewer's focus. AF-C invites the camera to continuously hunt for focus, which isn't necessary in those situations.

Have fun getting to know your Z8. It's an amazing camera.

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ

Because there will be a delay between when focus was locked and the shutter release.

Note your first posts you indicated that you were using single point focus. If that was just the area mode you were using but had the camera in AF-C that would be a different set of circumstances. Lesson here is to be very specific in your posts because that will eliminate lots of wild guesses.

Another question is if you were standing out in the open when you took these shots or were you inside a vehicle with the windows up. If you were inside the vehicle then that glass your were shooting thru is why your images are not sharp.

As complex as the Z8 is I don't think that you have a functional issue with your camera. Instead you need to do some experimenting with the camera and learn how to get a good hit rate on your problem shots.

Personally I use Back Button Focus for my shooting. Because it allows me to have continuous focus as long as the focus ON button is pressed and have it OFF when I release the button. As a result I have complete control over my focus at all times, I can even use Manual focus by using the Focus Override Feature. If this sounds interesting a bit of time spent on Youtube will get you up to speed. I'll also note that re-training yourself to not go to the shutter release for focus will take a some time and practice. However once you've done it enough to actually see it's advantages you'll find it's easier to pick up than you might think.

I will also note that there is a wide array of Area modes that you can employ and I'm currently still experimenting what works best. For general Walk About shooting the general Auto Everything mode seems best and if I have a specific subject I want to track the 3D tracking works pretty well. However being somewhat new to the Z system I'm still learning and keeping an open mind.

BTW, don't take this as gospel but I believe that the 3D Tracking on these cameras actually stores an image of the subject you have locked on and uses AI to track that specific image. With the Z cameras that have 3D tracking it means it's using a much higher resolution image than what was possible with the D810's use of the light metering system in a similar way. Point is, the 3D tracking on these cameras is a lot better than that in your D810 or my old D750 and you may find it's a solution for your troubling vehicle shots.

There is also the matter of the temps you are shooting in. You may find that Cold Soaking the camera and lenses is those temps for an hour or two may be a solution. Of course you will need to seal everything up when you come indoors to minimize condensation. BTW by seal I mean ziplock seal. Because the relative humidity of single digit temps is very close to zero and it's that very dry air that prevents condensation. So make sure you have a body cap with you and use the cap to slip the body into a ziplock bag large enough so you can seal that bag tight. As for the lenses Saran Wrap is the bees knees for this. Once everything is seal up pack everything in your carry backpack and keep that closed up overnght so it will warm up slowly and evenly. Note, don't even think about taking a quick peak because that warm moist interior air will create a near instant condensation explosion which will void your warranty. Because the Z8 and high end lenses are made with condensation "tells" inside the bodies.

Pietro13 said:

I don't think it's a focus problem because nothing in the blurry shots are in focus. It looks like heat haze to me.. Were you shooting from inside a warm car or were the camera and lens hood still warm when you took these shots? You can get heat haze from a warm lens hood and single digit temperatures. The background in the blurry photos have that weird heat haze look to them. If you still have your D810 why don't you go out with both cameras and shoot them one after the other. If the D810 looks fine then you know the Z8 has a problem.

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That's my observation, too. I have had that happen several times with the Z 9/800PF combo when the lens was warmer than the outside air. Warm air gets trapped in the hood. Steve Perry even covers that in a video. Until the lens moderates to the OAT, I keep the hood off.

You should be able to get better results overall.

Am I right in presuming your problems are mainly using your new to you 100-400?

Rob Bedows said:

This one, not so much. Same lens combo with Single point that caught the lettering on the truck. Why blurry at 1/6400?

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Was the shutter speed fast enough to eliminate subject motion?

As you have later mentioned cropping the image and there seems to be most unsharpness along the length of the fuel tank - I speculate no.

Rob Bedows said:

Same lens combo. Used SP. The point was actually just above the bird's head.

Same lens, WA(s) with th point between the bill and the eye. Good feather detail on the head.

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Dark relatively low contrast subjects at an angle to the sensor are difficult for AF - the AF probably "did the best it could" with the subject - focussing closer than you intended.

The birds head parallel to the sensor could have worked better

Rob Bedows said:

This one with my new to me 100-400. WA(s) with point right on the eye. Impressive to me.

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As AF seems good with an often "easy" target like an eye.

As AF accuracy rarely "switches on an off intermittently" your issues may be more to do with the challenges of learning how to get the best out of a lens with 400mm ability.

Rob Bedows said:

Same lens, not impressive. WA(s) with focus point touching license plate and right headlight. Why blurred with fast shutter speed. Vehicle SD for this and the next two.

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Were you using AF-C for a moving subject?

If not focus would lock on the car some distance before the image was recorded.

Rob Bedows said:

So, I've got many out of focus shots and some satisfactory.

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From the information provide I consider it difficult to determine if the main issue is you need more practice with your new lens or possible faulty equipment.

If you can get either another skilled photographer familiar with Nikon Z or a camera shop to take a series of images the results could help identify where the problem might be.

--
Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is similar to learning to play a piano - it takes practice to develop skill in either activity.

Rob Bedows said:

True, but I've had the problem at very close ranges as well. This one was at close range and 1/1600. Still not sharp.

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Looks like a super crop and looks fine given the conditions, A lot of other shots look like atmospherics.

You need to be posting the full rez uncropped images (and what mode) as we don't have proper context, a lot of these look like super crops in poor conditions.