Will Panasonic compete?

I don't know why people think a camera with IP53 weather sealing can be produced to the size of a GX9. Maybe it could be done for NASA, but then how much would that cost at retail.
no need for NASA. the OM5 is IP53 rated and is about the same size as the GX9

costs around $1k
It would be interesting to talk to the designers and engineers of the OM5.
It was designed by old Olympus as the EM5 mk3. The OM5 is 100% the exact same body, down to the single gram the same weight. All that is different is a few chips on the motherboard to upgrade it from Truepic8 to Truepic9, the color of one knob, and of course the firmware with useful new features.
Camera that is a combination of magnesium-alloy and polycarbonate.
To my knowledge, there is not one single gram magnesium in the OM5 body. It is an all plastic design, constructed exactly like the EM10 line. With a few extra design features to make it look and feel somewhat more premium.
I stand corrected. Thank you for catching this. B&H has it wrong in the Q&A. Looking further OM System uses the name "nylon" construction.
"Nylon" is a trade mark of the family of Aramid plastics. To get a feel for it, good quality cable ties are made of Nylon, or the brake fluid reservoir in your car. It is a flexible very strong and very durable material, much more expensive than the weaker and more brittle Polycarbonate (in cars the ashtray and bumpers and headlights may be made of this material). And no, there is no Nylon in an OM5.

The OM5 is made of the same plastic as OM10 series cameras: PCGF10 and PCGF20. That is granules of PolyCarbonate with 10 or 20% glass fibre reinforcement (present as fine powder), that is suitable for injection molding. It is a very low cost plastic, there are about $2 worth of it in an OM5.
Looks like we're getting caught up in words now and OM System mistakenly used a trademarked name on their websites.
Uh no. Aramid plastic, with or without the trade name Nylon, is widely known for its high price and vastly superior properties. Consumers know that products made of it always command a high price.

If OM really used it for the OM5 in their website (I have never read it), that would be a gross misrepresentation.

Another possibility is that they use a tiny Nylon tape, 0.02 g in weight, as a bearing surface somewhere in the IBIS mechanism. But who would want to mention that???
Actually, I think it looks the description in my screen shot is so poorly written that when I read it again and see "Olympus Street Case a constant companion", you have to wonder what are they talking about? Now it reads like a description of a nylon camera case. Open the link and it takes me to this:

https://explore.omsystem.com/ie/en/om-5

But, maybe the description is related to an accessory?
The Nylon Necktrap!
Bingo!!!

Out of curiosity, where did you find the reference to PCGF10 & PCGF20? Thanks!
In any case the construction of the OM-5 is hardly transparent to the consumer. I passed on the OM-5 due to the problem with the bottom plate, otherwise it's a good camera.
Anyway, there is no magnesium in the body and B&H got it wrong. Let's call it plastic and leave it at that.

219be9d7aa5b427486d71996ce328d47.jpg

Don't know if that helps shrink a camera or not. Unfortunately, your favorite material used incorrectly cheapens the OM5 to the point that if you put a Peak Design Capture Clip on it you risk ripping out the tripod socket. I don't mind plastic/polycarbonate on a camera like the lightweight E-P7 which you returned, but the OM3 is a better build with with TruePix X vs IX and a more advanced sensor. Seems like people would like an updated OM5, too. What was the original launch price of the OM5? I don't know.

A lot of people on this forum are attacking the OM3 and no one has held it in their hands yet. Getting past the troll comments, some of the reasonable comparisons are helpful, so I know what I'm buying. That's what a forum should be, but that is never going to happen is it.

Finally, there is an interesting interview by the Ricoh GR Designer by the name of Inaba san on YouTube. He talks about the process that goes into creating a new camera and the interaction between designers and engineers. Based on the wish list people always throw out for new cameras a lot of people don't have an understanding what it takes to design, engineer, and put out a new camera or a lot of the things we buy.

Anyway, I'll be preording the OM3 this weekend. I just want to go to the store and actually hold it and look at it before I open my wallet.
That is an excellent idea. Take a few pics with it. At that price you want to be 100% sure you like its looks and feel.
 
A more compact premium offering with G9II tech would surely be a compelling competitor to the OM3.
Such as a revised, more capable G100D?

I think the chances of seeing that in the future is high. It's not the kind of thing I look for because they always cut back in areas I value, but if the forum comments are any indicator...
 
I don't know why people think a camera with IP53 weather sealing can be produced to the size of a GX9. Maybe it could be done for NASA, but then how much would that cost at retail.
no need for NASA. the OM5 is IP53 rated and is about the same size as the GX9

costs around $1k
It would be interesting to talk to the designers and engineers of the OM5.
It was designed by old Olympus as the EM5 mk3. The OM5 is 100% the exact same body, down to the single gram the same weight. All that is different is a few chips on the motherboard to upgrade it from Truepic8 to Truepic9, the color of one knob, and of course the firmware with useful new features.
Camera that is a combination of magnesium-alloy and polycarbonate.
To my knowledge, there is not one single gram magnesium in the OM5 body. It is an all plastic design, constructed exactly like the EM10 line. With a few extra design features to make it look and feel somewhat more premium.
I stand corrected. Thank you for catching this. B&H has it wrong in the Q&A. Looking further OM System uses the name "nylon" construction.
"Nylon" is a trade mark of the family of Aramid plastics. To get a feel for it, good quality cable ties are made of Nylon, or the brake fluid reservoir in your car. It is a flexible very strong and very durable material, much more expensive than the weaker and more brittle Polycarbonate (in cars the ashtray and bumpers and headlights may be made of this material). And no, there is no Nylon in an OM5.

The OM5 is made of the same plastic as OM10 series cameras: PCGF10 and PCGF20. That is granules of PolyCarbonate with 10 or 20% glass fibre reinforcement (present as fine powder), that is suitable for injection molding. It is a very low cost plastic, there are about $2 worth of it in an OM5.
Looks like we're getting caught up in words now and OM System mistakenly used a trademarked name on their websites.
Uh no. Aramid plastic, with or without the trade name Nylon, is widely known for its high price and vastly superior properties. Consumers know that products made of it always command a high price.

If OM really used it for the OM5 in their website (I have never read it), that would be a gross misrepresentation.

Another possibility is that they use a tiny Nylon tape, 0.02 g in weight, as a bearing surface somewhere in the IBIS mechanism. But who would want to mention that???
Actually, I think it looks the description in my screen shot is so poorly written that when I read it again and see "Olympus Street Case a constant companion", you have to wonder what are they talking about? Now it reads like a description of a nylon camera case. Open the link and it takes me to this:

https://explore.omsystem.com/ie/en/om-5

But, maybe the description is related to an accessory?
The Nylon Necktrap!
Bingo!!!

Out of curiosity, where did you find the reference to PCGF10 & PCGF20? Thanks!
It's molded into each part on the inside. Presumably it is a legal requirement in many countries, to ease plastic recycling after the useful life of the plastic product expires. Even though the single parts are so small that nobody is going to recycle the bits a camera is made of. But on car parts it makes a lot of sense.

This is the baseplate of the EM5.3 and the OM5, they are identical. You can read the material it is made of if you zoom in right above the rectangular opening.

The self adhesive foam strips around the baseplate and all openings is what makes the difference between a weathersealed camera and one that is not. The EM5.3 was rated IPX1, the OM5 was suddenly rated IP53. Same parts, same body, same seals. OM must have changed their interpretation of the IP testing standard :) . Some people passionately believe a higher rating is better, even if IP rating is hardly applicable to ILC cameras. Some other camera makers like Panasonic do not publish such IP ratings, because they know it's just marketing snake oil in the context of ILCX cameras.

672601a1b8304bb78ad7daf40ae53158.jpg


a6e5f16e60b64d888c3661fa179949b5.jpg

In any case the construction of the OM-5 is hardly transparent to the consumer. I passed on the OM-5 due to the problem with the bottom plate, otherwise it's a good camera.
Anyway, there is no magnesium in the body and B&H got it wrong. Let's call it plastic and leave it at that.

219be9d7aa5b427486d71996ce328d47.jpg

Don't know if that helps shrink a camera or not. Unfortunately, your favorite material used incorrectly cheapens the OM5 to the point that if you put a Peak Design Capture Clip on it you risk ripping out the tripod socket. I don't mind plastic/polycarbonate on a camera like the lightweight E-P7 which you returned, but the OM3 is a better build with with TruePix X vs IX and a more advanced sensor. Seems like people would like an updated OM5, too. What was the original launch price of the OM5? I don't know.

A lot of people on this forum are attacking the OM3 and no one has held it in their hands yet. Getting past the troll comments, some of the reasonable comparisons are helpful, so I know what I'm buying. That's what a forum should be, but that is never going to happen is it.

Finally, there is an interesting interview by the Ricoh GR Designer by the name of Inaba san on YouTube. He talks about the process that goes into creating a new camera and the interaction between designers and engineers. Based on the wish list people always throw out for new cameras a lot of people don't have an understanding what it takes to design, engineer, and put out a new camera or a lot of the things we buy.

Anyway, I'll be preording the OM3 this weekend. I just want to go to the store and actually hold it and look at it before I open my wallet.
That is an excellent idea. Take a few pics with it. At that price you want to be 100% sure you like its looks and feel.
 
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New processor/memory combined with better/different software might be sufficient to account for the differences even without different IBIS hardware.
The OM-3 appears to have the same IBIS as the OM-5, not the OM-1, even though it has the same processor and firmware as the OM-1. This implies IBIS hardware is different.
Why do you say it appears to be the same as the OM5?
The IBIS claimed by OMDS for the OM-3 is one stop less than the IBIS claimed by them for the OM-1, and is the same as the IBIS claimed by them for the OM-5 (and E-M1.3).
I think the rating methodology changed, so the results aren't backward compatible...
These are all OMDS' own specs. Why do you believe they used incompatible ratings methodologies?
and fool us into thinking systems which aren't the same are...
I don't see any advantage in OMDS falsely understating the IBIS in the OM-3. The lesser IBIS was a flaw noted by many reviewers. Statements contrary to self-interest are more likely to be true.
 
Thanks for your information on plastics and weather sealing.

In our country it is possible to get caught out in the rain occasionally. The only time any form of weather sealing is truly necessary is getting caught short without a protective bag or a coat that the camera gear can be protected under.

I have no ambition take images in substantial rain.

I have only been caught out twice - once in Milford Sound NZ in torrential wet where it was a once in a lifetime a lifetime event on the top deck of the little cruise ship to make the best views. I might as well have dunked my still new GM1 in a bucket of water and spent most of my time wiping water off the kit zoom lens to try and get worthwhile images.

Dried the camera and lens thoroughly making sure that no doors or other openings were made until all the wet had disappeared.

Ten years later neither lens nor camera body has shown any ill effects.

Another time it was a Canon dslr at a car rally. Not nearly as wet and a thorough external dry and it has been ok.

Taking pictures in really wet conditions with wet optics does not produce great captures. But I have heard said that having a good sized hood does help keep the wet weather off the object lens.

I would not like to make a habit out of working a camera rig in wet conditions. Other's kilometres would vary.
 
Apparently CIPA just recently updated the way stabilization is tested. Is it literally the same IBIS unit with same characteristics? Could OM Systems have updated it, using the same system? Or is it actually a new IBIS unit.. with oddly matching numbers on paper?

new

https://www.cipa.jp/e/std/image-stabilization.html

old

https://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

I was wondering why the Nikon P1100 magically dropped down to from 5 stops to 4 stops compared to the P1000, and that's likely the answer.

a4bf906dcbbc44deaf412c462b69c6eb.jpg.png


Which explains why OM-3 has the curious center and corner stops performance now. Looks like CIPA is adding this new thing and it wasn't OM Systems being nice to us.

8d8d4ddc2f2148e59b0d25bae52014cb.jpg.png


This seems really new as it just seems literally it's just two cameras right now using this standard.

--
I like cameras, they're fun.
 
Last edited:
Apparently CIPA just recently updated the way stabilization is tested. Is it literally the same IBIS unit with same characteristics? Could OM Systems have updated it, using the same system? Or is it actually a new IBIS unit.. with oddly matching numbers on paper?

new

https://www.cipa.jp/e/std/image-stabilization.html

old

https://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

I was wondering why the Nikon P1100 magically dropped down to from 5 stops to 4 stops compared to the P1000, and that's likely the answer.

a4bf906dcbbc44deaf412c462b69c6eb.jpg.png


Which explains why OM-3 has the curious center and corner stops performance now. Looks like CIPA is adding this new thing and it wasn't OM Systems being nice to us.

8d8d4ddc2f2148e59b0d25bae52014cb.jpg.png


This seems really new as it just seems literally it's just two cameras right now using this standard.

--
I like cameras, they're fun.
Yes this is what I was referring to exactly. Thank you for clarifying, Ainisru.
 
I don't know why people think a camera with IP53 weather sealing can be produced to the size of a GX9. Maybe it could be done for NASA, but then how much would that cost at retail.
no need for NASA. the OM5 is IP53 rated and is about the same size as the GX9

costs around $1k
It would be interesting to talk to the designers and engineers of the OM5.
It was designed by old Olympus as the EM5 mk3. The OM5 is 100% the exact same body, down to the single gram the same weight. All that is different is a few chips on the motherboard to upgrade it from Truepic8 to Truepic9, the color of one knob, and of course the firmware with useful new features.
Camera that is a combination of magnesium-alloy and polycarbonate.
To my knowledge, there is not one single gram magnesium in the OM5 body. It is an all plastic design, constructed exactly like the EM10 line. With a few extra design features to make it look and feel somewhat more premium.
I stand corrected. Thank you for catching this. B&H has it wrong in the Q&A. Looking further OM System uses the name "nylon" construction.
"Nylon" is a trade mark of the family of Aramid plastics. To get a feel for it, good quality cable ties are made of Nylon, or the brake fluid reservoir in your car. It is a flexible very strong and very durable material, much more expensive than the weaker and more brittle Polycarbonate (in cars the ashtray and bumpers and headlights may be made of this material). And no, there is no Nylon in an OM5.

The OM5 is made of the same plastic as OM10 series cameras: PCGF10 and PCGF20. That is granules of PolyCarbonate with 10 or 20% glass fibre reinforcement (present as fine powder), that is suitable for injection molding. It is a very low cost plastic, there are about $2 worth of it in an OM5.
Looks like we're getting caught up in words now and OM System mistakenly used a trademarked name on their websites.
Uh no. Aramid plastic, with or without the trade name Nylon, is widely known for its high price and vastly superior properties. Consumers know that products made of it always command a high price.

If OM really used it for the OM5 in their website (I have never read it), that would be a gross misrepresentation.

Another possibility is that they use a tiny Nylon tape, 0.02 g in weight, as a bearing surface somewhere in the IBIS mechanism. But who would want to mention that???
Actually, I think it looks the description in my screen shot is so poorly written that when I read it again and see "Olympus Street Case a constant companion", you have to wonder what are they talking about? Now it reads like a description of a nylon camera case. Open the link and it takes me to this:

https://explore.omsystem.com/ie/en/om-5

But, maybe the description is related to an accessory?
The Nylon Necktrap!
Bingo!!!

Out of curiosity, where did you find the reference to PCGF10 & PCGF20? Thanks!
It's molded into each part on the inside. Presumably it is a legal requirement in many countries, to ease plastic recycling after the useful life of the plastic product expires. Even though the single parts are so small that nobody is going to recycle the bits a camera is made of. But on car parts it makes a lot of sense.

This is the baseplate of the EM5.3 and the OM5, they are identical. You can read the material it is made of if you zoom in right above the rectangular opening.

The self adhesive foam strips around the baseplate and all openings is what makes the difference between a weathersealed camera and one that is not. The EM5.3 was rated IPX1, the OM5 was suddenly rated IP53. Same parts, same body, same seals. OM must have changed their interpretation of the IP testing standard :) . Some people passionately believe a higher rating is better, even if IP rating is hardly applicable to ILC cameras. Some other camera makers like Panasonic do not publish such IP ratings, because they know it's just marketing snake oil in the context of ILCX cameras.

672601a1b8304bb78ad7daf40ae53158.jpg


a6e5f16e60b64d888c3661fa179949b5.jpg

Thank you for taking the time to post this information. I've seen part numbers stamped inside products before and never gave it thought that it could have meaning for recycling purposes. I'm more used to looking at the outside of packaging to see which recycle bin it goes.
In any case the construction of the OM-5 is hardly transparent to the consumer. I passed on the OM-5 due to the problem with the bottom plate, otherwise it's a good camera.
Anyway, there is no magnesium in the body and B&H got it wrong. Let's call it plastic and leave it at that.

219be9d7aa5b427486d71996ce328d47.jpg

Don't know if that helps shrink a camera or not. Unfortunately, your favorite material used incorrectly cheapens the OM5 to the point that if you put a Peak Design Capture Clip on it you risk ripping out the tripod socket. I don't mind plastic/polycarbonate on a camera like the lightweight E-P7 which you returned, but the OM3 is a better build with with TruePix X vs IX and a more advanced sensor. Seems like people would like an updated OM5, too. What was the original launch price of the OM5? I don't know.

A lot of people on this forum are attacking the OM3 and no one has held it in their hands yet. Getting past the troll comments, some of the reasonable comparisons are helpful, so I know what I'm buying. That's what a forum should be, but that is never going to happen is it.

Finally, there is an interesting interview by the Ricoh GR Designer by the name of Inaba san on YouTube. He talks about the process that goes into creating a new camera and the interaction between designers and engineers. Based on the wish list people always throw out for new cameras a lot of people don't have an understanding what it takes to design, engineer, and put out a new camera or a lot of the things we buy.

Anyway, I'll be preording the OM3 this weekend. I just want to go to the store and actually hold it and look at it before I open my wallet.
That is an excellent idea. Take a few pics with it. At that price you want to be 100% sure you like its looks and feel.
 
G9II doesn't sell.
How do you know this?
Look around you or in this forum. Sure, the G9II users are out there taking pictures, say you?
This forum is hardly a representative sample.
Go to places, air shows, parks, sanctuaries, and try to spot one.
I went to Conwy Castle with my new OM1 mk i and was surprised to see another one going out as we were going in. Every other camera inside was a Panasonic, apart from a Canon P&S.

Andrew
To add to this. I've almost never seen anyone else shooting with MFT in the states. Last time I saw one was when I went to Soldier Hollow to see the IBU World Cup races. Took my G9II with the P100-300 II. Was right behind the coaches as the athletes were zeroing their rifles. Saw one of the staff photographers with a Lumix camera- didn't see which camera- and think he was shooting with the P100-400. I gave him a thumbs up for the camera and he smiled. But everyone else was using Canon, Nikon, and Sony cameras.
I noticed you are using the P100-300ii lens with your G9ii...how do you like that combination? I use it with my older G9 and am happy with it. Do you see any improvement using it with the G9ii? Thanks.
 
I noticed you are using the P100-300ii lens with your G9ii...how do you like that combination? I use it with my older G9 and am happy with it. Do you see any improvement using it with the G9ii? Thanks.
I think it doesn't get the attention it deserves- on this forum, or from me for that matter! It was my first long telephoto zoom, and I posted my experience with it here:


I've since gotten the P200 f/2.8 with 1.4xTC, and the P100-400 II, so I haven't used it much. TBH, I mostly use the P200 for my wildlife photography. But the times I've used the lens, I've been very happy with it. My experience has been that the P100-300 is nearly as sharp as the P100-400 II over most of its range. It just misses on the long end if you need that. And like the O75-300 I had years ago, it doesn't feel as premium as the P100-400, even though it still feels solidly built. But, and here are the two biggest reasons I keep it. It's MUCH smaller and lighter, so I keep it because it makes for a better travel telephoto. And the price is MUCH better than the other two telephoto lenses I have.
 
I noticed you are using the P100-300ii lens with your G9ii...how do you like that combination? I use it with my older G9 and am happy with it. Do you see any improvement using it with the G9ii? Thanks.
I think it doesn't get the attention it deserves- on this forum, or from me for that matter! It was my first long telephoto zoom, and I posted my experience with it here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67597815

I've since gotten the P200 f/2.8 with 1.4xTC, and the P100-400 II, so I haven't used it much. TBH, I mostly use the P200 for my wildlife photography. But the times I've used the lens, I've been very happy with it. My experience has been that the P100-300 is nearly as sharp as the P100-400 II over most of its range. It just misses on the long end if you need that. And like the O75-300 I had years ago, it doesn't feel as premium as the P100-400, even though it still feels solidly built. But, and here are the two biggest reasons I keep it. It's MUCH smaller and lighter, so I keep it because it makes for a better travel telephoto. And the price is MUCH better than the other two telephoto lenses I have.
Thanks for the feedback. I enjoy using the P100-300ii lens but have often thought about getting the P100-400ii The size and weight keep me at bay. Like you said, the 100-300 is much lighter.
 
A little car confusion here.. Ford Mustang came out in 1963 1/2 . It was essentially a rebodied Ford Falcon. The Plymouth Barracuda came out around 65, again, a rebodied compact Valient. The Camaro came out in 1967, again, relying heavily on the Chevy Nova with a new styled body. The Pontiac Firebird came out in 67, again a rebodied Camaro with Pontiacs engines and rear axle.

All were equally fast when comparably equipped.
 
I noticed you are using the P100-300ii lens with your G9ii...how do you like that combination? I use it with my older G9 and am happy with it. Do you see any improvement using it with the G9ii? Thanks.
I think it doesn't get the attention it deserves- on this forum, or from me for that matter! It was my first long telephoto zoom, and I posted my experience with it here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67597815

I've since gotten the P200 f/2.8 with 1.4xTC, and the P100-400 II, so I haven't used it much. TBH, I mostly use the P200 for my wildlife photography. But the times I've used the lens, I've been very happy with it. My experience has been that the P100-300 is nearly as sharp as the P100-400 II over most of its range. It just misses on the long end if you need that. And like the O75-300 I had years ago, it doesn't feel as premium as the P100-400, even though it still feels solidly built. But, and here are the two biggest reasons I keep it. It's MUCH smaller and lighter, so I keep it because it makes for a better travel telephoto. And the price is MUCH better than the other two telephoto lenses I have.
Thanks for the feedback. I enjoy using the P100-300ii lens but have often thought about getting the P100-400ii The size and weight keep me at bay. Like you said, the 100-300 is much lighter.
The PL 200/2.8 is quite a few shades better as is recognised by its price bracket. But the PL 100-400 is in the good value price bracket where good enough will do.

As someone who is happy with "destroying" detail in painter-like post processing I am still very happy to make the best images that I can where circumstances and my gear assist my still relatively average personal skills. Recognising that everyone is entitled to a lucky shot or two.
 
To add to this. I've almost never seen anyone else shooting with MFT in the states. Last time I saw one was when I went to Soldier Hollow to see the IBU World Cup races. Took my G9II with the P100-300 II. Was right behind the coaches as the athletes were zeroing their rifles. Saw one of the staff photographers with a Lumix camera- didn't see which camera- and think he was shooting with the P100-400. I gave him a thumbs up for the camera and he smiled. But everyone else was using Canon, Nikon, and Sony cameras.
I noticed you are using the P100-300ii lens with your G9ii...how do you like that combination? I use it with my older G9 and am happy with it. Do you see any improvement using it with the G9ii? Thanks.
Take a look at the PL 50-200mm and 1.4x teleconverter.

I have the original 100-300mm. It’s a solid value lens at a great price. As long as you set the aperture at f7.1 and try not to zoom all the way to 300mm and shoot in good light, you can get decent results.

I had the PL 100-400mm, which unfortunately broke, but I’m much happier with the 50-200mm and TC combo. Better image quality than both the other zooms.
 

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