Learning HDR

Yes, it’s unnecessarily restrictive that the HDR setting can’t be chosen with Raw set. It would be perfectly possible to return a raw image file from the central image, plus the central JPEG and the merged HDR frame.

Digital Nigel said:

Yes, it’s unnecessarily restrictive that the HDR setting can’t be chosen with Raw set. It would be perfectly possible to return a raw image file from the central image, plus the central JPEG and the merged HDR frame.

Click to expand...

Shooting raw has lots of disadvantages, but OP can learn to produce a HDR image starting from one of his raw files. Just one image.

As it is, there is no need to learn in camera HDR because the camera does everything on it's own, but it's true that the HDR images produced on the computer look... better than what the camera makes. At least that's what i'm getting.

**** Dastardly said:

Digital Nigel said:

Yes, it’s unnecessarily restrictive that the HDR setting can’t be chosen with Raw set. It would be perfectly possible to return a raw image file from the central image, plus the central JPEG and the merged HDR frame.

Click to expand...

Shooting raw has lots of disadvantages,

Click to expand...

Disadvantages? I see only advantages. Shooting and post-processing are both easier than with JPEGs.

**** Dastardly said:

but OP can learn to produce a HDR image starting from one of his raw files. Just one image.

Click to expand...

Yes, that’s what I do. It’s effortless, and works even with fast moving subjects.

**** Dastardly said:

As it is, there is no need to learn in camera HDR because the camera does everything on it's own, but it's true that the HDR images produced on the computer look... better than what the camera makes. At least that's what i'm getting.

Click to expand...

Yes, HDRs in post are definitely better, but also much more effort.

Busbob said:

Out on the bike this morning and took the camera with me as per Birddogman's request.

Typically I'm a bird photography guy and this morning was a surprise. No birds. The Indigo Buntings which are always singing that sweet song were nowhere to be seen or heard. The Yellow Chat that is always makes his senseless gurgles, chirps, and hollers was also absent.

SO, had to think of something else on a gorgeous 65º day.

I've read about HDR (High Dynamic Range) and decided to try it after my bridge photos into the sun were muddled and dark. Found the settings on the RX10 IV and after multiple tries realized that the camera will no do HDR in RAW format. Had to select JPEG to make HDR usable.

After downloading the pix on the laptop it was apparent the the camera will give you the non-HDR image first and the next image is the processed HDR shot. A tripod is recommended but didn't have one and just held my breath and pushed the shutter button. Here's the non-HDR first attemp. My bike is leaning on the bridge but not very visible.

Here's the HDR image: the bridge is no longer muddled and there's the bike.

Another try at a different bridge. The first is not so good but the second is warm and the shadows show details.

Going to have to pursue this HDR stuff with a tripod, I like what I see.

The remaining egret shots are from a day at the park when I couldn't ride, and there is a Green Heron in the middle from my first day out on the trail with the camera.

Had a long absence and it's good to be back, healthy, on the bike, and camera in hand.

I mean it when I say------
Every new day is a gift!

Click to expand...

Taking the liberty, Member Busbob, of snapping a screen grab, of picture #5, in the hopes that you can help me understand why I'd need so many decimal spaces; to wit,



Maybe it's simply I, but, that's well on its way to becoming a Plank Length.

David

Hi, Bob! I'm honored you took your camera on your bike ride - looks like a very nice trail, BTW. Where?

I rarely shoot birds (with a camera, anyway... ) But, I do use my cameras, especially the little RX100 VII for action-type shooting when we are out hunting, running the dogs, etc. Those activities often take place in remote natural settings, so it's not uncommon for me to want to take a landscape-type shot in lighting conditions that have rather extreme ranges.

For that reason, I do quite a lot of HDR shooting. In fact, one of the three memory registers on my VII is set up just for HDR. I shoot 5 frames, 1/3 stop apart, in JEPG. I hand hold the camera - no tripod needed (having to carry a tripod would totally defeat the reason to have such a tiny, light camera). I do NOT do any HDR processing in camera - way too uncontrolled and limiting. It is all done in post, which gives me a huge range of possibilities in the final image. FWIW, I use HDR Efex Pro 2 as a plug-in with Photoshop.

For example, this is a shot of a blizzard blowing across the Grand Canyon in AZ. We were biking the rim and all I had was the little VII. This is a straight OOC shot with normal exposure:



This is the HDR composite of 5 different exposures (I also added the hawks from another frame shot at the same place and the same time of just the hawks). A much more accurate rendition o what my eye was seeing that day.



Another example - we were hiking Calf Creek Canyon in UT - one of the most difficult, grueling hikes I have done in many years - barely made it - so I was carrying the little Sony. The waterfalls in a deep bowl at the far end of the Canyon were beautiful. Again, I shot a 5 frame series handheld and combined them in post. This is what a straight OOC single, properly exposed image looked like OOC:



To my eye, it did not capture the extraordinary place very well. This HDR did:



Surprisingly, 5-frame handheld HDR even works with subjects that have motion, like this pic of a water fall in MT (taken with a Fuji). OOC shot:





Finally, it allows you to pick up detail that simply disappears on the blown highlights and/or lost shadows in many landscape shots (another Fuji pic, but the same principal). OOC shot of an arch formation in UT:



Five image HDR:



Greg

--
Check out my photos at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137747053@N07/

Absolutely awesome stuff! Will be programming one of the memories on my RX10 IV just as you have for HDR use.

The trail is in Shelby County, TN, as far west as you can go in the state. It's the Wolf River Greenway. Runs along the Wolf River primarily but also goes toward Memphis and out to Shelby Farms Park, which is larger than Central Park in NY. Paved trails and a total of 50+ miles I'm told. When I retired I vowed not to be idle and bought a bike. The trail is just across the street from my neighborhood and so far I've logged over 10,000 miles on that trail. Sometimes hot, muggy, and buggy, sometimes cold (I'm not a cold weather biker) mostly just delightful. Forest trails, open fields (hawks!), lakes, buffalo, and no cars to contend with. Just my cup of tea.

Birddogman said:

Hi, Bob! I'm honored you took your camera on your bike ride - looks like a very nice trail, BTW. Where?

I rarely shoot birds (with a camera, anyway... ) But, I do use my cameras, especially the little RX100 VII for action-type shooting when we are out hunting, running the dogs, etc. Those activities often take place in remote natural settings, so it's not uncommon for me to want to take a landscape-type shot in lighting conditions that have rather extreme ranges.

For that reason, I do quite a lot of HDR shooting. In fact, one of the three memory registers on my VII is set up just for HDR. I shoot 5 frames, 1/3 stop apart, in JEPG. I hand hold the camera - no tripod needed (having to carry a tripod would totally defeat the reason to have such a tiny, light camera). I do NOT do any HDR processing in camera - way too uncontrolled and limiting. It is all done in post, which gives me a huge range of possibilities in the final image. FWIW, I use HDR Efex Pro 2 as a plug-in with Photoshop.



Another example - we were hiking Calf Creek Canyon in UT - one of the most difficult, grueling hikes I have done in many years - barely made it - so I was carrying the little Sony. The waterfalls in a deep bowl at the far end of the Canyon were beautiful. Again, I shot a 5 frame series handheld and combined them in post. This is what a straight OOC single, properly exposed image looked like OOC:

To my eye, it did not capture the extraordinary place very well. This HDR did:

Click to expand...

Believe it or not I prefer the non HDR between these 2 images. The HDR one here looks fake to me. For the others the HDR example looks good.

--
Tom

Busbob said:

Absolutely awesome stuff! Will be programming one of the memories on my RX10 IV just as you have for HDR use.

The trail is in Shelby County, TN, as far west as you can go in the state. It's the Wolf River Greenway. Runs along the Wolf River primarily but also goes toward Memphis and out to Shelby Farms Park, which is larger than Central Park in NY. Paved trails and a total of 50+ miles I'm told. When I retired I vowed not to be idle and bought a bike. The trail is just across the street from my neighborhood and so far I've logged over 10,000 miles on that trail. Sometimes hot, muggy, and buggy, sometimes cold (I'm not a cold weather biker) mostly just delightful. Forest trails, open fields (hawks!), lakes, buffalo, and no cars to contend with. Just my cup of tea.

Click to expand...

10,000 miles! wow. Buffalo in Tennessee? I had to look it up and found this.

"Although bison have been reintroduced to a few enclosed habitats in Tennessee, our state’s free-roaming bison can never return. The habitats and ecosystems they depended— and created— upon simply don’t exist anymore, and the paths of their migrations and feeding and breeding grounds are now blocked or developed."

Birddogman said:

For that reason, I do quite a lot of HDR shooting. In fact, one of the three memory registers on my VII is set up just for HDR. I shoot 5 frames, 1/3 stop apart, in JEPG. I hand hold the camera - no tripod needed (having to carry a tripod would totally defeat the reason to have such a tiny, light camera). I do NOT do any HDR processing in camera - way too uncontrolled and limiting. It is all done in post, which gives me a huge range of possibilities in the final image. FWIW, I use HDR Efex Pro 2 as a plug-in with Photoshop.

Click to expand...

How do you find HDR Efex? I have owned the Nik collection for many years but I have never used it. These days I tend to do exposure blending with luminosity masks rather than use HDR.

Busbob said:

Absolutely awesome stuff! Will be programming one of the memories on my RX10 IV just as you have for HDR use.

The trail is in Shelby County, TN, as far west as you can go in the state. It's the Wolf River Greenway. Runs along the Wolf River primarily but also goes toward Memphis and out to Shelby Farms Park, which is larger than Central Park in NY. Paved trails and a total of 50+ miles I'm told. When I retired I vowed not to be idle and bought a bike. The trail is just across the street from my neighborhood and so far I've logged over 10,000 miles on that trail. Sometimes hot, muggy, and buggy, sometimes cold (I'm not a cold weather biker) mostly just delightful. Forest trails, open fields (hawks!), lakes, buffalo, and no cars to contend with. Just my cup of tea.

Click to expand...

10,000 miles!! Wow! You are a better (and much fitter) man than I.

Yes, staying active as you age is critical. The need to run my dogs every day pretty much does that for me. Plus, we hunt 7 months out of the year - upland bird hunting is basically long-distance hiking, following the dogs around in rugged, remote, places. The heavy and constant physical labor involved in backwoods living (which we love!) helps, too. Our (very limited compared to you) is just for fun.

Greg

tbcass said:

Birddogman said:

Hi, Bob! I'm honored you took your camera on your bike ride - looks like a very nice trail, BTW. Where?

I rarely shoot birds (with a camera, anyway... ) But, I do use my cameras, especially the little RX100 VII for action-type shooting when we are out hunting, running the dogs, etc. Those activities often take place in remote natural settings, so it's not uncommon for me to want to take a landscape-type shot in lighting conditions that have rather extreme ranges.

For that reason, I do quite a lot of HDR shooting. In fact, one of the three memory registers on my VII is set up just for HDR. I shoot 5 frames, 1/3 stop apart, in JEPG. I hand hold the camera - no tripod needed (having to carry a tripod would totally defeat the reason to have such a tiny, light camera). I do NOT do any HDR processing in camera - way too uncontrolled and limiting. It is all done in post, which gives me a huge range of possibilities in the final image. FWIW, I use HDR Efex Pro 2 as a plug-in with Photoshop.

Another example - we were hiking Calf Creek Canyon in UT - one of the most difficult, grueling hikes I have done in many years - barely made it - so I was carrying the little Sony. The waterfalls in a deep bowl at the far end of the Canyon were beautiful. Again, I shot a 5 frame series handheld and combined them in post. This is what a straight OOC single, properly exposed image looked like OOC:

To my eye, it did not capture the extraordinary place very well. This HDR did:

Click to expand...

Believe it or not I prefer the non HDR between these 2 images. The HDR one here looks fake to me. For the others the HDR example looks good.

Click to expand...

Fari enough, Tom. One man's gold is another man's trash.

--
Check out my photos at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137747053@N07/

rpjallan said:

Birddogman said:

For that reason, I do quite a lot of HDR shooting. In fact, one of the three memory registers on my VII is set up just for HDR. I shoot 5 frames, 1/3 stop apart, in JEPG. I hand hold the camera - no tripod needed (having to carry a tripod would totally defeat the reason to have such a tiny, light camera). I do NOT do any HDR processing in camera - way too uncontrolled and limiting. It is all done in post, which gives me a huge range of possibilities in the final image. FWIW, I use HDR Efex Pro 2 as a plug-in with Photoshop.

Click to expand...

How do you find HDR Efex? I have owned the Nik collection for many years but I have never used it. These days I tend to do exposure blending with luminosity masks rather than use HDR.

Click to expand...

I don't know how to answer that, other than to say dig around in the program. I know that I like it much more than the basic PS HDR methodology. It gives you almost unlimited options in blending the images.

Greg

Birddogman said:

tbcass said:

Birddogman said:

Hi, Bob! I'm honored you took your camera on your bike ride - looks like a very nice trail, BTW. Where?

I rarely shoot birds (with a camera, anyway... ) But, I do use my cameras, especially the little RX100 VII for action-type shooting when we are out hunting, running the dogs, etc. Those activities often take place in remote natural settings, so it's not uncommon for me to want to take a landscape-type shot in lighting conditions that have rather extreme ranges.

For that reason, I do quite a lot of HDR shooting. In fact, one of the three memory registers on my VII is set up just for HDR. I shoot 5 frames, 1/3 stop apart, in JEPG. I hand hold the camera - no tripod needed (having to carry a tripod would totally defeat the reason to have such a tiny, light camera). I do NOT do any HDR processing in camera - way too uncontrolled and limiting. It is all done in post, which gives me a huge range of possibilities in the final image. FWIW, I use HDR Efex Pro 2 as a plug-in with Photoshop.

Another example - we were hiking Calf Creek Canyon in UT - one of the most difficult, grueling hikes I have done in many years - barely made it - so I was carrying the little Sony. The waterfalls in a deep bowl at the far end of the Canyon were beautiful. Again, I shot a 5 frame series handheld and combined them in post. This is what a straight OOC single, properly exposed image looked like OOC:

To my eye, it did not capture the extraordinary place very well. This HDR did:

Click to expand...

Believe it or not I prefer the non HDR between these 2 images. The HDR one here looks fake to me. For the others the HDR example looks good.

Click to expand...

Fari enough, Tom. One man's gold is another man's trash.

Click to expand...

So true. I have always preferred a more subtle look to my photographs.

--
Tom

Birddogman said:

Busbob said:

Absolutely awesome stuff! Will be programming one of the memories on my RX10 IV just as you have for HDR use.

The trail is in Shelby County, TN, as far west as you can go in the state. It's the Wolf River Greenway. Runs along the Wolf River primarily but also goes toward Memphis and out to Shelby Farms Park, which is larger than Central Park in NY. Paved trails and a total of 50+ miles I'm told. When I retired I vowed not to be idle and bought a bike. The trail is just across the street from my neighborhood and so far I've logged over 10,000 miles on that trail. Sometimes hot, muggy, and buggy, sometimes cold (I'm not a cold weather biker) mostly just delightful. Forest trails, open fields (hawks!), lakes, buffalo, and no cars to contend with. Just my cup of tea.

Click to expand...

10,000 miles!! Wow! You are a better (and much fitter) man than I.

Yes, staying active as you age is critical. The need to run my dogs every day pretty much does that for me. Plus, we hunt 7 months out of the year - upland bird hunting is basically long-distance hiking, following the dogs around in rugged, remote, places. The heavy and constant physical labor involved in backwoods living (which we love!) helps, too. Our (very limited compared to you) is just for fun.

Greg

Click to expand...

When I was younger, I used to hike in the Adirondak Mountains. 1 mile in the mountains is harder than 10 on the flats.

tbcass said:

Birddogman said:

Busbob said:

Absolutely awesome stuff! Will be programming one of the memories on my RX10 IV just as you have for HDR use.

The trail is in Shelby County, TN, as far west as you can go in the state. It's the Wolf River Greenway. Runs along the Wolf River primarily but also goes toward Memphis and out to Shelby Farms Park, which is larger than Central Park in NY. Paved trails and a total of 50+ miles I'm told. When I retired I vowed not to be idle and bought a bike. The trail is just across the street from my neighborhood and so far I've logged over 10,000 miles on that trail. Sometimes hot, muggy, and buggy, sometimes cold (I'm not a cold weather biker) mostly just delightful. Forest trails, open fields (hawks!), lakes, buffalo, and no cars to contend with. Just my cup of tea.

Click to expand...

10,000 miles!! Wow! You are a better (and much fitter) man than I.

Yes, staying active as you age is critical. The need to run my dogs every day pretty much does that for me. Plus, we hunt 7 months out of the year - upland bird hunting is basically long-distance hiking, following the dogs around in rugged, remote, places. The heavy and constant physical labor involved in backwoods living (which we love!) helps, too. Our (very limited compared to you) is just for fun.

Greg

Click to expand...

When I was younger, I used to hike in the Adirondak Mountains. 1 mile in the mountains is harder than 10 on the flats.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that, Tom! We live in the Appalachians. View from "my" mountain on a fall morning (an HRD pic, BTW):



The high prairie areas we hunt in the west are anything but flat. Joy and Biss at work:



Greg

--
Check out my photos at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137747053@N07/

tbcass said:

Birddogman said:

tbcass said:

Birddogman said:

Hi, Bob! I'm honored you took your camera on your bike ride - looks like a very nice trail, BTW. Where?

I rarely shoot birds (with a camera, anyway... ) But, I do use my cameras, especially the little RX100 VII for action-type shooting when we are out hunting, running the dogs, etc. Those activities often take place in remote natural settings, so it's not uncommon for me to want to take a landscape-type shot in lighting conditions that have rather extreme ranges.

For that reason, I do quite a lot of HDR shooting. In fact, one of the three memory registers on my VII is set up just for HDR. I shoot 5 frames, 1/3 stop apart, in JEPG. I hand hold the camera - no tripod needed (having to carry a tripod would totally defeat the reason to have such a tiny, light camera). I do NOT do any HDR processing in camera - way too uncontrolled and limiting. It is all done in post, which gives me a huge range of possibilities in the final image. FWIW, I use HDR Efex Pro 2 as a plug-in with Photoshop.

Another example - we were hiking Calf Creek Canyon in UT - one of the most difficult, grueling hikes I have done in many years - barely made it - so I was carrying the little Sony. The waterfalls in a deep bowl at the far end of the Canyon were beautiful. Again, I shot a 5 frame series handheld and combined them in post. This is what a straight OOC single, properly exposed image looked like OOC:

To my eye, it did not capture the extraordinary place very well. This HDR did:

Click to expand...

Believe it or not I prefer the non HDR between these 2 images. The HDR one here looks fake to me. For the others the HDR example looks good.

Click to expand...

Fari enough, Tom. One man's gold is another man's trash.

Click to expand...

So true. I have always preferred a more subtle look to my photographs.

Click to expand...

--
Check out my photos at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137747053@N07/

--
Tom

tbcass said:

Click to expand...

Very pretty, Tom - looks like the Adirondacks.

It is similar where we live - looking out over the valley from one of the trails where we run the dogs by our house:













Very different kinds of mountains where we hunt in the west:









We only go to such places out west to hunt forest grouse, like this ruffed grouse.





But we can hunt them in our home mountains, so we usually hunt prairie grouse out west. Sage grouse are found in extremely remote and rugged areas, like this Bliss point on a sage grouse high up.





Sharptail grouse are found in more typical prairie cover, like this. Bliss testing the wind for grouse scent.







Pheasants further east are often found in ag fields, but they inhabit rugged terrain in Montana, like draws along buttes. Joy point on a pheasant:









Greg

--
Check out my photos at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/137747053@N07/

Here is one of Bill Borne's Panos, made from 40 shots, 8 wide, 5 exposures of each, and with his experience, it took him less time than it did for Greg to find his Hawks to import.





I couldn't even remember the name of the software to get started.

--
Elliott