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Somewhat Brutal, But Informative Review Of Nikon Zf
- Thread starter MyReality
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MyReality
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There must be a reason Porsche and other cars don't have that configuration any more. Usually things like this are determined by usability from a large sample of the population.
True, but I still sometimes like to use my Canon 7ne with motor drive. There is something about film going thru it at 3 fps that I like.
Whining is for kids.
MyReality
Veteran Member
It was my reply to sirhawkeye64 who questioned whether Rockwell is a working pro any more.
MyReality
Veteran Member
Not true. Nikon, Canon and people that read his site send him cameras to review.
"Perfectly Clear" - Other pros have heard of it. He also uses Photo Mechanic, Affinity and Nero. He has sold his Jpeg files to clients like Disneyland.
MyReality
Veteran Member
Ransomware malware is a demand. Rockwell and churches ask for donations.
Because he has a platform... Ken is a.. influencer- like you know, what some do on instragram or tiktok showing off things like their makeup products which gets a lot of views? This doesn't make him in the clear- there are bad influencers out there which companies still support, even if people are putting pressure on the company to not.
Ken is a bad influencer that still gets supported. The video you just showed us had ramblings of a person and factual errors. How are you not embarrassed about this? I was and not even a pro, just a person who likes using cameras. I've seen youtubers with not even 10K subscribers who have done hour long essay topics with tons of research done and the amount errors would be less than this Ken Rockwell video.
jtr27
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Yes. Shakedown is hyperbole. I do not care for the "please help please help please help" business model, the affiliate links (AKA "my officially approved sources") peppered throughout the reviews, OR the content.
It is a foregone conclusion that he may grudgingly pay some respect to a Nikon product, but will end up telling us we should buy Canon or Sony instead. Here's a little ding on the Z6 III that you might enjoy if you are a Ken fan:
The real news is the Z6 III does not impress me. Its AF is poor, often hunting in-and-out even with a decent subject
On the other hand, Thom tells us:
The real news is that the Z6 III is very close to the Z8 and Z9 in focus performance, and the original Z6 and Z6 II were not...
with the Z6 III, as in most cases you're going to find it remarkably close to the Z8. Ignorably close.
Thom's "Highly Recommended" rating, I am sure we can agree, means that he was impressed.
So somebody is incorrect about the Z6 III in general and the autofocus in particular, and I am pretty sure it isn't Thom. =)
Ken is an entertainer in my view, who gets traffic by being controversial, similar to the Northrups. I go there occasionally for amusement, but for actual, reliable information, no. There are far more trustworthy sources.
fotosean
Senior Member
Ken's databases on the Nikkor lenses and the old film bodies are a real treasure, and I have sent him a few bucks in the past because of that.
Having said that his "reviews" of the last couple of years are mostly clickbait...and wow, did he ever fall over the oversaturation cliff with his sample images, or what? I mean, I like Fujifilm Velvia 50F and Kodak Ektar 100 as much as the next guy...but wow, he oversaturates to such an extreme degree these days and I don't believe for a second his sample images are SOOC with DSLRs and/or mirrorless.
fotosean
Senior Member
And, FTR, I found his "review" of the Z f flawed on so many levels, not at all accurate, like he was rushing it. I would expect as experienced of a photographer as he purports to be to do a much more comprehensive and accurate review. The only worse review on YT was Tony and Chelsea's rather bitter review, because Nikon USA is ghosting them these days...and for good reasons.
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jtr27
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A bit off topic perhaps, but a review of the Zf has recently been published on Admiring Light:
admiringlight.com
It may or may not convey any new information, but I enjoy his reviews, which I find to be fair and thoughtful, and his sample images never fail to impress.
He has only written a handful of Nikon reviews, but IMO they are all worth your time, if only for enjoyment.
admiringlight.com
Review: Nikon Zf -
Admiring Light's Nikon Zf review takes an in-depth look at the full-frame retro-styled mirrorless camera from Nikon.
admiringlight.com
It may or may not convey any new information, but I enjoy his reviews, which I find to be fair and thoughtful, and his sample images never fail to impress.
He has only written a handful of Nikon reviews, but IMO they are all worth your time, if only for enjoyment.
Review Index -
Fuji Reviews, Micro 4/3 Reviews, Sony Reviews, Panasonic Reviews, Leica Reviews and Olympus Reviews from Admiring Light.
admiringlight.com
One has to wonder about peoples comprehension abilities. There is a lot of hate going on, but really objectively, where was their review bitter? (I am not a regular watcher of them, so I'm unbiased):
I own the Zf myself and they are right about the design of the control dials being wonky. On top I see similar AF issues when shooting action as they demonstrate it in their video (allthough a bit less dramatic as they make it look) and yes, the only thing that I found a bit silly is that they mention that the APS-C cameras can outperform the Zf. This is technically true and I get where they are comign from (they make this comment in conjunction with using available retro glas), therefore APS-C + much faster glas (like the Viltrox 75 1.2 or the Sigma 1.4 lenses) might get you better low light performance than the Zf when used with the two available retro lenses. But many people will find this confusing.
Overall they make a lot of good and correct points are maybe even are a hair more honest than other reviewers (many tend to speak in hyperboles and do not properly report on flaws). They are even correct about buying the X100 if you only plan to use one lens and want the retro factor and are not a Nikon shooter. Why bother with the Zf then?
One of the other youtubers people are hating on is "the fro" (again: not subscribed to either of them), but if you just look at his results he is a solid photographer and he is able to achieve great to stunning results (unlike many other reviewers) and he actually seems to know what he is doing. Sadly nowadays if someone mentions something negative about "their beloved purchase" many people tend to get very angry and lose all objectiveness.
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fotosean
Senior Member
Thanks for sharing. I found it to be a very balanced, and excellent review, even if I don't get some of his cons.
Poor ergonomics due to the flat retro shape, when used without an accessory grip
I never got this - and still don't. it is a retro design, and has the small teeny grip that the F3 had. What does one expect? if you want a full-sized grip, or aren't used to handing butterbar bodies like the F3, FM3A, or FM2N - don't buy the camera!
(FTR, I do use the Neewer grip, the one with the red stripe...)
Dial control scheme is half baked and can be confusing at first
Not really, if one is used to Nikon DSLRs and MILCs. Coming from another system, OK, then...he has a point. But again - it is a retro design...what do u expect? it isn't going to have 3 control dials and 3 Fn buttons...
Subject detection lacks dedicated bird algorithms from Z8/Z9
Sure, I wish it had this, and hoping this will come in a future FW update. Having said that...it does great for BIF and subject/eye detection with birds, in my experience the way that it is right now with Animal detection, wide area...and programming the front FN button to go to 3D tracking - works flawlessly.
No easy way to quickly switch to AutoISO
The #1 complaint, which I get. Having said that, there are easy workarounds (again, familiarity with Nikon menus and setting thru the I menu helps a lot here.) I use auto ISO 95% of the time so for me this ain't a big issue.
Pixel shift is essentially a gimmick with this implementation
Couldn't disagree more. it is a REALLY nice feature for landscapes, and no "gimmick."
Fewer programmable buttons than other Z cameras
Again - retro body. Can't be a retro body with all those extra control dials and FN buttons that the other Z modern-era cameras have.
jtr27
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Happy to share it, glad you liked it, and I agree that he tries to be fair and balanced. Sounds like he is using his Zf quite a bit, and enjoying it.
Jonathan
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Jonathan
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I think the key is to no be influenced by anyone, but also not ignore them. We're hit with so much information these days that we have to filter what is important and what is not.
You also have to decide if the information is intended to mislead you or not. The bigger problem is when corporations follow or rely on these influencers. Instead of following what aspects made them great. A stopped watch is right twice a day, and more than half of his observations are rather relevant, as I broke several of them down here:
You also have to decide if the information is intended to mislead you or not. The bigger problem is when corporations follow or rely on these influencers. Instead of following what aspects made them great. A stopped watch is right twice a day, and more than half of his observations are rather relevant, as I broke several of them down here:
fotosean
Senior Member
I guess we'll just agree to disagree about The Fro being a "solid" photographer. Anyone who puts out an hour + setup video about the biggest hunk of junk Canon has released in the last 2 decades (R100) and claims it is somewhat functional...is bought and paid for. That, and his constant slobbering over the R8 - any other manufacturer that put out a FF MILC without IBIS, he'd be tearing them from pillar to post.
Also his constant attempts at explaining/justifying why he shoots landscapes wide open (huh? I guess there is a reason he doesn't post his landscape photos then) and his constant shilling for his presets ("Skittles" seems to be his pride and joy...and for my tastes, that might be the worst preset I have ever seen.)
And I hate to burst his bubble, but it ain't that hard to take pictures of Bryce Harper hitting home runs at Phillies home games given the pro glass and pro bodies he has access to. Yet, every time, he fawns over them like they are all somehow Pulitzer-worthy.
The Nortrops reviewed the Z f like it was a modern design MILC era that costs much more than the $2K camera that it was. Their complaints about ergonomics were both puzzling and inconsistent considering their constant fawning over the Q3/Q2 and the 100V/VI. And AF? C'mon...(again, Q3/Q2 and X100V/VI.)
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fotosean.com
Also his constant attempts at explaining/justifying why he shoots landscapes wide open (huh? I guess there is a reason he doesn't post his landscape photos then) and his constant shilling for his presets ("Skittles" seems to be his pride and joy...and for my tastes, that might be the worst preset I have ever seen.)
And I hate to burst his bubble, but it ain't that hard to take pictures of Bryce Harper hitting home runs at Phillies home games given the pro glass and pro bodies he has access to. Yet, every time, he fawns over them like they are all somehow Pulitzer-worthy.
The Nortrops reviewed the Z f like it was a modern design MILC era that costs much more than the $2K camera that it was. Their complaints about ergonomics were both puzzling and inconsistent considering their constant fawning over the Q3/Q2 and the 100V/VI. And AF? C'mon...(again, Q3/Q2 and X100V/VI.)
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fotosean.com
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Ha, this thread got me to visit his site. 10 or 12 years ago, as a newby, I got some useful info from his site. But even then, the oversaturated photos were odd. Now, he's gone all-in on his home page, with every photo extremely oversaturated. It's a style, I guess.
His Z6 iii review discussion about the jpg colors is quite amazing and weird.
ISO: Then he shows a sample fireplace scene, from ISO 50 to ISO 204800. Downloading a couple of them, it's the same f/8 aperture, with the shutter speed changing.
ISO 100 is 0.13 second, ISO 12800 is 1/1000 second. So he's comparing jpg low light performance here. There's no mention of the three levels of High ISO NR -- which one did he pick?
Why compare exposures like this?
The R8 is the better action camera (if you can use the electronic shutter) compared to Zf and Z6 III and will bless you with a better keeper rate. IBIS is a gimmick in that setting. I can say that with confidence having shot tousands of images with both cameras.
IBIS in general is a gimmick for me (for my personal shooting style), that's highly subjective of course).
Pixelshift is a gimmick as well. When do you have a completely "frozen" landscape. As soon as something moves pixelshift MIGHT ruin the shot, therefore better not rely on it.
And you can design a retro camera with better ergonimcs and a second FN button. Actually pretty easy. Nikon did not choose to do so. Either on the front or to the right to the AE-L button, there is plenty of space, take a look for yourself.
You seem to enjoy your accesory grip, but this would have not been necessary in the first place with a slightly different design, therefore it's ok to criticize this. Retro does not justify bad design decisions (same as the dials).
I myself don't use the accessory grip on my Zf (materials feel different than the base body and it gets even heavier).
I didn't see them saying that Fujis AF is better in general though, they mentioned low light, but I can't comment on that (no experience here), as I said this reference to APS-C cameras seems a bit silly to me as well.
Other than that I have not heard the fro claiming that he is a landscape shooter, nor that you have to use the lenses wide open to take landscape shots. He often says that he buys expensive glas to use it wide open (here I agree) and that he is a sports shooter. If you have a link to those other statements you made I would be highly interested. Presets in general are a difficult topic, he tries to make some money with them, but most of those youtubers make advertisement in their videos so who cares if his presets are not to your taste? Most presets look pretty much terrible if you don't have the right "base image" to apply them to. Should he go out there and claim that his presents suck and that you should buy them nevertheless? It's advertisement.
jtr27
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The source matters to me, and their credibility. For example, I do not waste time reading the National Enquirer, even if they say something truthful from time to time. I am perfectly comfortable ignoring it, because it is not considered a reliable source of information. I do read the Washington Post, because it is reliable. Feel free to plug in your own "reliable source" if for some reason you don't like the Post. =)
If Ken has said some relevant things about the Zf, chances are somebody else has said it too, and quite possibly said it sooner than Ken did, because Ken doesn't get one in advance. The fact that he doesn't probably does not increase the chances of him giving a camera a fair review. =)
So I don't see any reason to wait for his late reviews to come out, and then sift through them, looking for nuggets of actual useful information among the inevitable bias and noise.
Credibility and timeliness. Do you think they are important? I know I do!
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sirhawkeye64
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If by clients you mean Youtube viewers, then yes that is true, but you can do that in other ways. Take Matt Granger and Steve Perry for example, who probably have larger audiences than KR, but put out good content that people actually want to hear about. Not some guy complaining about a camera system that he probably really doesn't like in the end.
Yes and I've taken that into account too when watching his videos (I obviously disagree with him on many points in his reviews, but it's also that I likely don't shoot the way he does either). But like Fro, he will find any attempt to try to jab at Nikon and compare them to Sony and Canon.
I think you don't fully understand the ISO dial and Auto ISO integration. When ion 'C' the Auto ISO uses whatever settings you put into it in the menu. By changing the ISO dial you either;
1. Raise the minimum ISO (maybe you want nee more shutter speed in A mode)
2' Raise the max ISO if it is higher than your programed setting.
This actually makes the Zf auto ISO interestingly flexible. I like it! YMMV.
I shoot this camera a lot differently than I do my Z9 but for me once I understood what the relationship was between the ISO dial and Auto ISO I kind of enjoy the little feature!
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