Wishlist for Z5ii?

LennyLevino

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What would you like to see Nikon do with a Z5II?

In my opinion, keep the same old sensor but give it Expeed 7 and the new AF, as well as the newer improved (8 stop) IBIS. Sell it for the same price as the current Z5.
 
That seems reasonable. My only question would be if the expeed 7 processor and that sensor still struggles in low light conditions. I’m sure it would be better. Maybe it’s not enough. Maybe the new partially stacked sensor is needed. But then it might as well be a z6iii. I would guess that Nikon has already tested all this. They know if it’s good enough.
 
Just put the Zf in a Z5 body. It's already a Z5II sort of
 
1.6K would be in line with the increase we see from Z6II to Z6III

It would still be under 2k. Maybe give it a few more video specs, plus it would use 2 full size uhs-II cards. Possibly make it compatible with MB-N11
 
How about do nothing and knock the price back 20% or so.

Want better? Nikon has several to choose from.

As is, the Z5 is a good basic camera, and second or third bodies are many times very, very helpful.
 
How about do nothing and knock the price back 20% or so.

Want better? Nikon has several to choose from.

As is, the Z5 is a good basic camera, and second or third bodies are many times very, very helpful.
The problem is its not really a very competitive body anymore. Nikon has to compete with Canon. Does Sony even have an entry level body that is current, it seems to me they just allow older cameras to remain in production to slot into a lower tier
 
I doesn't make much sense to keep the same sensor in my opinion. It's old, and it really doesn't follow in terms of specs for video.

Video being an extremely important part of hybrid camera sales today, I don't see Nikon releasing another camera that has a readout speed so bad the 4K footage needs a 1.7x crop to work at 30fps.

To me, the lowest end sensor they can use in 2024 for a full frame camera is the IMX 410, as it at least allows for 4K30 without a crop. It's not perfect, it's pretty slow reading, but it's still enough (so much so even cameras like the S5II still use it).

So yeah, IMX 410 + Expeed 7 would make a great Z5II... but this is what the Zf is. I wouldn't hold my breath for a Z5II, I'd check for Zf discounts instead.
 
Just put the Zf in a Z5 body. It's already a Z5II sort of
Could it still sell for $999 then? If so then very few people would buy the ZF (or Z6III).
Ehh, comparing sale prices to potential new products can be a bit tricky. Yes, the Z5 sells for $999, but it's MSRP is $1399. If a Z5ii comes in near or even slightly above that, at say $1599, I think it would still sell based on improvements and compromises between the old Z5 and new Z6ii - and that a condition:'new' Z5 (gen 1) won't likely be in production very long after a Z5ii release. The Z5ii would eventually go on sale too, but perhaps not as low as $999.
 
Just put the Zf in a Z5 body. It's already a Z5II sort of
Could it still sell for $999 then? If so then very few people would buy the ZF (or Z6III).
Ehh, comparing sale prices to potential new products can be a bit tricky. Yes, the Z5 sells for $999, but it's MSRP is $1399. If a Z5ii comes in near or even slightly above that, at say $1599, I think it would still sell based on improvements and compromises between the old Z5 and new Z6ii - and that a condition:'new' Z5 (gen 1) won't likely be in production very long after a Z5ii release. The Z5ii would eventually go on sale too, but perhaps not as low as $999.
Yep.

Honestly, a Z5II could be a very inexpensive release for Nikon : just make a new PCB for the motherboard with the new processor, put an IMX 410 in it, everything else stays the same.

The shutter is most likely the exact same unit as is in the Z6 and Z6II, so it can probably be pushed to 8/10fps without any hardware changes. Same for the IBIS, I don't see a reason to change it, it's already the same as the Z6 cameras, and it's already more than enough for an entry level body.

release that camera at 1600 bucks, and you would have a pretty good product stack :

- Z5II with 8/10fps shooting, 5 stop IBIS, dual SD, uncropped 10 bit 4K30 at $1600

- Zf with 14fps shooting, 8 stop IBIS (+ focus point rotation), SD + micro SD, uncropped 10bit 4K30 and cropped 4K60 at $2000 (maybe decrease the price to $1900 or $1850?)

- Z6III with 14fps mechanical / 20fps electronic, 8 stop IBIS like Zf, SD + CFXB, uncropped 10 bit 4K60, cropped 4K120, 12bit 6K RAW video at $2500.

Then of course Z8 and Z9.

That would be a reasonable product stack that would compete well with Canon and Sony imho.

I don't know if Nikon intends on producing the Z6II for longer and use it as their entry level camera. I can see how this would be a smart move : production lines are already there, camera is well known... but I could see how a couple of things could prevent people from buying the Z6II at let's say 1500/1600 USD : first is the CFXB card, which turns off a lot of budget buyers, as the cards are much more expensive than regular SDs, and of course the fact that it does not have the newer AF, is generally harder to use if you want the same kind of results as let's say an A7III or Canon R6 which can be found at a similar price. Also, no internal 10bit video can be a turn-off, though I suspect people would prefer a Zf for that, with the articulating screen and whatnot.
 
I would really like the LCD and EVF to be upgraded.
 
I would really like the LCD and EVF to be upgraded.
The back LCD could be upgraded to the 2.1M dot panel (though to be honest, even the 1.04M dot one is not *that* bad).

However the EVF is very unlikely to be upgraded at all if there is a Z5II coming. It was pretty high end when the Z5 was released, it basically had the same EVF as the Z6 and Z7 of the time.

Even the Zf still uses the same EVF. Don't expect to see Z8 or Z6III EVF in a Z5II.
 
I would really like the LCD and EVF to be upgraded.
The back LCD could be upgraded to the 2.1M dot panel (though to be honest, even the 1.04M dot one is not *that* bad).
Very noisy in low light e.g. Astro.
One reason I am thinking to upgrade to Zf or 6_3
That's not a screen issue, that's a sensor issue. Later cameras with BSI sensor fare much better in low light with the same EVF.

It's the same exact EVF as you'd find in the Zf. The Z6III obviously has a MUCH better EVF, but the price range is not the same as a potential Z5II.
 
I would really like the LCD and EVF to be upgraded.
The back LCD could be upgraded to the 2.1M dot panel (though to be honest, even the 1.04M dot one is not *that* bad).
Very noisy in low light e.g. Astro.
One reason I am thinking to upgrade to Zf or 6_3
That's not a screen issue, that's a sensor issue. Later cameras with BSI sensor fare much better in low light with the same EVF.
Thanks for the reminder. I tell ya, old age is really getting to me.
 
I would really like the LCD and EVF to be upgraded.
The back LCD could be upgraded to the 2.1M dot panel (though to be honest, even the 1.04M dot one is not *that* bad).
Very noisy in low light e.g. Astro.
One reason I am thinking to upgrade to Zf or 6_3
That's not a screen issue, that's a sensor issue. Later cameras with BSI sensor fare much better in low light with the same EVF.
Thanks for the reminder. I tell ya, old age is really getting to me.
It's not actually a sensor (or screen) issue. It's a software issue.

For some reason the Nikon Z5 shows incredible levels of (red colored) noise on the screen and the LCD, making them both pretty much unusable in low light. But if you still take a picture, it won't look that bad once you load it onto your computer.

Anyway I remember fixing this issue somehow. It's not a hardware issue.
 
I would really like the LCD and EVF to be upgraded.
The back LCD could be upgraded to the 2.1M dot panel (though to be honest, even the 1.04M dot one is not *that* bad).
Very noisy in low light e.g. Astro.
One reason I am thinking to upgrade to Zf or 6_3
That's not a screen issue, that's a sensor issue. Later cameras with BSI sensor fare much better in low light with the same EVF.
Thanks for the reminder. I tell ya, old age is really getting to me.
It's not actually a sensor (or screen) issue. It's a software issue.

For some reason the Nikon Z5 shows incredible levels of (red colored) noise on the screen and the LCD, making them both pretty much unusable in low light. But if you still take a picture, it won't look that bad once you load it onto your computer.

Anyway I remember fixing this issue somehow. It's not a hardware issue.
Though the issue is indeed software, the reason why the software is the way it is is because of the hardware issue in the sensor :

this sensor is an older sensor, FSI design, not BSI. It has two issues compared to the BSI IMX 410 you'd find in cameras like the Z6 or the Zf : first is the low intensity signal sensitivity that is lower on this older sensor. This is what makes the Z6 have a better high ISO image than the Z5 for example. Second is the long readout time (whch is also the reason why it needs a 1.7x crop in 4K video, and still has big rolling shutter then). Readout time is about 100ms for the Z5 while it's "only" 50ms for the Z6. Still slow in the grand scheme of things (the Z6III is under 16ms for a full 14bit sensor readout for example), but twice as fast as the Z5.

With a slower reading sensor, you need to adapt how you do your live view, otherwise you might end up with rolling shutter even in live view capture on your back screen or in your EVF and that's very distracting. Cameras generally read-out a much less detailed image : the Z6/Z5's EVF for example is something close to 1307x940 when the photos coming out of the Z6 are close to 6000x4000. What the camera does is that it's pixel binning or line skipping the sensor, to get a video feed or super low resolution, to use in the back screen or the EVF.

The Z5 having a slow sensor, you need to do even more line skipping and / or pixel binning to get a similar result. The Z6 is more than able to oversample both the back screen and the EVF, giving a cleaner signal having a faster sensor. The Z5 on the other hand? Not so much. The image you're reading out of it is much less over sampled. Think of it like oversampling from a 1080p image instead of 4K. Much less detail to work with, and more noise (at least more visible one).

In short : noise is much more visible the moment it gets prevalent (aka when you get into lower light). The Z6 is already not perfect on that regard. The Z5 has the speed disadvantage, and the fact that its low intensity signal sensitivity is worse than teh BSI sensors : you get the pretty nasty noise cocktail of the Z5 in low light.

TL ; DR : there is software issues, but the issue that the software cause are themselve caused by the hardware the camera is equipped with : lower signal to noise ratio at higher sensitivities, slower readout, mostly. Nikon made a software to go along with that and try to alleviate as much as possible... is it the best way to do it? Maybe. Maybe not. but the core issue is rooted in the hardware.
 
You're right, fair points and well explained. Thanks.

I just remember that I was able to greatly reduce the noise in both the EVF and on the back screen in the Z5 by changing some settings. It still looks like crap compared to other mirrorless cameras but at least it can become usable.
 
Maybe it was turning off the exposure preview? Doing this the camera "automatically" exposes the scene, generally gathering more signal by reducing the frame rate.
 
Yes, I think that was it.
 

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