Can we give up on the Z90 yet?

I get the distinct feeling it's not happening.

It's pretty depressing. I bought the Z50 when it came out because I honestly believed Nikon was going to develop a great mirrorless APS-C line. Instead, I get to watch Canon and Fuji leave me ever further behind, while Nikon releases the Z50 again and again, in slightly different packages.

I like to shoot birds and animals. When do I bite the bullet and leave Nikon?
Get a D500
That’s some way to run a business. Nikon, for whatever reason, has refused to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50 and the answer from the majority of the Nikon faithful is to go buy something else :-|

The common answer, completely in line with Nikon’s refusal to update, is to buy Sony, Canon, or used Nikon DSLR because you ain’t gonna get it in a Z body.
 
Excuse me for wanting what I want, and not what Nikon's bean counters think would be most profitable. What do I know anyway? I'm just a customer standing here with money in hand...
Yes it’s quite amazing to see the responses from those owning a Z9, Z8, or a Zf to those who are waiting for Nikon to update the other bodies. It’s as if those who are content owning the only three new Nikon bodies are hoping to keep it at that three body lineup.
As they say, “just get a Z8” :-|
The consensus here seems to be that the Z90 isn't happening - in fact there will never be another new DX camera. That just seems weird to me.
And like I said earlier: paying $3200 to end up with fewer pixels than I have now is not a compelling upgrade. Surely there are some people at Nikon who agree.
 
I get the distinct feeling it's not happening.

It's pretty depressing. I bought the Z50 when it came out because I honestly believed Nikon was going to develop a great mirrorless APS-C line. Instead, I get to watch Canon and Fuji leave me ever further behind, while Nikon releases the Z50 again and again, in slightly different packages.

I like to shoot birds and animals. When do I bite the bullet and leave Nikon?
Get a D500
That’s some way to run a business. Nikon, for whatever reason, has refused to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50 and the answer from the majority of the Nikon faithful is to go buy something else :-|

The common answer, completely in line with Nikon’s refusal to update, is to buy Sony, Canon, or used Nikon DSLR because you ain’t gonna get it in a Z body.
What? No. Nikon appears to be actively working towards z6iii production readiness if the leak photos are real. If you look at their release pattern, it's start high and milk. Milk the z9, then the z8...now the z6iii. It also has to get the z6iii right because it's competition is formidable, and the Zf, a niche play while the z6iii gestates, is, well, a niche play. The z7iii has to be something different with a different sensor than previously, and with all the 45MPX bodies out now, is less important than it used to be. Will the Z5 be updated? Maybe, the Zf is what a Z5 would be in the Expeed7 era, so wrap a modern body around the Zf and call it good. Then Nikon might get around to freshening the Z50. That's the only body (and it's brothers) that one could lay better than even money that Nikon will refuse to iterate.

But keep uppermost in mind...start high and milk.
 
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Excuse me for wanting what I want, and not what Nikon's bean counters think would be most profitable. What do I know anyway? I'm just a customer standing here with money in hand...
Yes it’s quite amazing to see the responses from those owning a Z9, Z8, or a Zf to those who are waiting for Nikon to update the other bodies. It’s as if those who are content owning the only three new Nikon bodies are hoping to keep it at that three body lineup.
As they say, “just get a Z8” :-|
The consensus here seems to be that the Z90 isn't happening - in fact there will never be another new DX camera. That just seems weird to me.
And like I said earlier: paying $3200 to end up with fewer pixels than I have now is not a compelling upgrade. Surely there are some people at Nikon who agree.
Considering all the other benefits of a Z8 vs a Z50, the couple of pixels argument seems a little weak
 
Excuse me for wanting what I want, and not what Nikon's bean counters think would be most profitable. What do I know anyway? I'm just a customer standing here with money in hand...
Yes it’s quite amazing to see the responses from those owning a Z9, Z8, or a Zf to those who are waiting for Nikon to update the other bodies. It’s as if those who are content owning the only three new Nikon bodies are hoping to keep it at that three body lineup.
As they say, “just get a Z8” :-|
The consensus here seems to be that the Z90 isn't happening - in fact there will never be another new DX camera. That just seems weird to me.
And like I said earlier: paying $3200 to end up with fewer pixels than I have now is not a compelling upgrade. Surely there are some people at Nikon who agree.
Well, that's just if you wanted a new pro camera. If you're willing to wait until after the Z6iii (and maybe a z5ii) come out - i.e., next year - you might see a z70. Not good odds, but not infinitesimal. Not stacked, but 24MPx. Not Z8 level AF, but probably better than the D500 was - i.e., a6700/R7 level competence. Burst rate in the mirrorless era seems to be nosebleed fast out of the gate, so that's not the major issue it once was. But I don't see a DX Z8 coming out at all.

As much as we understandably scream "but I'M here and waiting - don't I count?" it just may be that Nikon's answer is "no. Not in today's market, not with mirrorless' different development cost balance, not on our present and so far successful course".
 
I get the distinct feeling it's not happening.

It's pretty depressing. I bought the Z50 when it came out because I honestly believed Nikon was going to develop a great mirrorless APS-C line. Instead, I get to watch Canon and Fuji leave me ever further behind, while Nikon releases the Z50 again and again, in slightly different packages.

I like to shoot birds and animals. When do I bite the bullet and leave Nikon?
Get a D500
That’s some way to run a business. Nikon, for whatever reason, has refused to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50 and the answer from the majority of the Nikon faithful is to go buy something else :-|

The common answer, completely in line with Nikon’s refusal to update, is to buy Sony, Canon, or used Nikon DSLR because you ain’t gonna get it in a Z body.
Nikon hasn't refused to update anything. Now they might not be on the schedule you want, or they are not prioritizing the camera you want, but the Z8, Z9 and Zf are all terrific cameras and the Z8 & 9 are really well priced in the market.

I realize a lot of people want a D500 mirrorless equivalent. I don't happen to be one of them
 
I get the distinct feeling it's not happening.

It's pretty depressing. I bought the Z50 when it came out because I honestly believed Nikon was going to develop a great mirrorless APS-C line. Instead, I get to watch Canon and Fuji leave me ever further behind, while Nikon releases the Z50 again and again, in slightly different packages.

I like to shoot birds and animals. When do I bite the bullet and leave Nikon?
Get a D500
That’s some way to run a business. Nikon, for whatever reason, has refused to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50 and the answer from the majority of the Nikon faithful is to go buy something else :-|

The common answer, completely in line with Nikon’s refusal to update, is to buy Sony, Canon, or used Nikon DSLR because you ain’t gonna get it in a Z body.
Nikon hasn't refused to update anything. Now they might not be on the schedule you want, or they are not prioritizing the camera you want, but the Z8, Z9 and Zf are all terrific cameras and the Z8 & 9 are really well priced in the market.
OK. To date they definitely have chosen not to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50.

Chosen not to or refused as of today sounds like a case of semantics ;-)
I realize a lot of people want a D500 mirrorless equivalent. I don't happen to be one of them
 
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I get the distinct feeling it's not happening.

It's pretty depressing. I bought the Z50 when it came out because I honestly believed Nikon was going to develop a great mirrorless APS-C line. Instead, I get to watch Canon and Fuji leave me ever further behind, while Nikon releases the Z50 again and again, in slightly different packages.

I like to shoot birds and animals. When do I bite the bullet and leave Nikon?
Get a D500
That’s some way to run a business. Nikon, for whatever reason, has refused to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50 and the answer from the majority of the Nikon faithful is to go buy something else :-|

The common answer, completely in line with Nikon’s refusal to update, is to buy Sony, Canon, or used Nikon DSLR because you ain’t gonna get it in a Z body.
Nikon hasn't refused to update anything. Now they might not be on the schedule you want, or they are not prioritizing the camera you want, but the Z8, Z9 and Zf are all terrific cameras and the Z8 & 9 are really well priced in the market.
OK. To date they definitely have chosen not to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50.

Chosen not to or refused as of today sounds like a case of semantics ;-)
I realize a lot of people want a D500 mirrorless equivalent. I don't happen to be one of them
Nope, not what we're saying. Not semantics at all. We can't say that Nikon has chosen not to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50, just that they're not letting any info about what they're doing leak out. They are definitely working on stuff - most likely next out of the gate is the Z6iii - but it had better be fabulous. The other 3, well, odds vary.
 
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I get the distinct feeling it's not happening.

It's pretty depressing. I bought the Z50 when it came out because I honestly believed Nikon was going to develop a great mirrorless APS-C line. Instead, I get to watch Canon and Fuji leave me ever further behind, while Nikon releases the Z50 again and again, in slightly different packages.

I like to shoot birds and animals. When do I bite the bullet and leave Nikon?
Get a D500
That’s some way to run a business. Nikon, for whatever reason, has refused to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50 and the answer from the majority of the Nikon faithful is to go buy something else :-|

The common answer, completely in line with Nikon’s refusal to update, is to buy Sony, Canon, or used Nikon DSLR because you ain’t gonna get it in a Z body.
Nikon hasn't refused to update anything. Now they might not be on the schedule you want, or they are not prioritizing the camera you want, but the Z8, Z9 and Zf are all terrific cameras and the Z8 & 9 are really well priced in the market.
OK. To date they definitely have chosen not to update the Z5, Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z50.

Chosen not to or refused as of today sounds like a case of semantics ;-)
There's an order to these things. And again, we're here today because they decided to milk the Z9, Z8 and the Zf. It sucks, but we gotta wait for our turn. The rest of the lineup will get refreshed in the next two years. If you're staying, then you gotta wait. Now if you don't wanna wait, then Canon is a good candidate with their telephoto lenses. Sony is better with the early access to third party lenses. You're better off just getting what's available than staying bitter.
I realize a lot of people want a D500 mirrorless equivalent. I don't happen to be one of them
Whether we get a D500 replacement depends on how fast Nikon wants to release the Z9ii and bring in EXPEED8. Then there's also if and when Nikon gives us a literal mirrorless D500, a 10 fps 20MP camera with EXPEED7 camera that's a bit nicer to hold than the Z50, how many of us are going to go "that's not my mirrorless D500".
 
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Whether we get a D500 replacement depends on how fast Nikon wants to release the Z9ii and bring in EXPEED8. Then there's also if and when Nikon gives us a literal mirrorless D500, a 10 fps 20MP camera with EXPEED7 camera that's a bit nicer to hold than the Z50, how many of us are going to go "that's not my mirrorless D500".
If they do come out with a Z90 / D500 type cropped frame camera, there are a lot of people on this forum that better buy 2!
 
Which lens are you using with the Z50?
 
Excuse me for wanting what I want, and not what Nikon's bean counters think would be most profitable. What do I know anyway? I'm just a customer standing here with money in hand...
Yes it’s quite amazing to see the responses from those owning a Z9, Z8, or a Zf to those who are waiting for Nikon to update the other bodies. It’s as if those who are content owning the only three new Nikon bodies are hoping to keep it at that three body lineup.
As they say, “just get a Z8” :-|
The consensus here seems to be that the Z90 isn't happening - in fact there will never be another new DX camera. That just seems weird to me.
And like I said earlier: paying $3200 to end up with fewer pixels than I have now is not a compelling upgrade. Surely there are some people at Nikon who agree.
Considering all the other benefits of a Z8 vs a Z50, the couple of pixels argument seems a little weak
$800usd vs $3500 USD is the biggest argument.

I'd love a d500 mirrorless but would be equally happy with d7xxx replacement also, would only have to match the Canon R7. I don't think it's to much ask really..
 
The point of the Z90 or the "D500 successor" was always to provide the top of the line AF and reach at a lower price.

When the D850 was $3300 and a D5 was $6500, the D500 was $2000.
100% correct

With the D500 capping the trio of DX options, with a D7200 the more affordable DX option, or an even cheaper entry D5*00
The thing here is "is an high end APS-C Nikon is going to be released?" Not "should I buy a Z8?". Pretty sure if OP had the budget to drop $4000 on one he would have already. Saying "just upgrade to a twice as expensive full frame camera" is NOT an answer, no matter how many of you think it is.
Nikon currently has 3 DX cameras to buy into the Z System:

Zfc

Z50

Z30

The Z5 and Zf are the entry into an FX Z System.

The persisting barrier to buying any of the key features in flagship Z9 Performance ceiling costs $3500 at minimum. Previously, the D500 accessed D5 flagship features for much less
Going from entry level to mid range is not the same thing as going from entry level to almost flagship or at the very least super high end full frame. How come we still need to explain things out loud for matters as simple as that?
The Z90 - Z500 - is the missing DX camera to drop the entry ceiling to affordable Z9 features: specifically AF, High RAW fps with PreCapture, blackout EVF....

Many of these issues were discussed 3 months ago

 
The point of the Z90 or the "D500 successor" was always to provide the top of the line AF and reach at a lower price.

When the D850 was $3300 and a D5 was $6500, the D500 was $2000.
100% correct

With the D500 capping the trio of DX options, with a D7200 the more affordable DX option, or an even cheaper entry D5*00
The thing here is "is an high end APS-C Nikon is going to be released?" Not "should I buy a Z8?". Pretty sure if OP had the budget to drop $4000 on one he would have already. Saying "just upgrade to a twice as expensive full frame camera" is NOT an answer, no matter how many of you think it is.
Nikon currently has 3 DX cameras to buy into the Z System:

Zfc

Z50

Z30

The Z5 and Zf are the entry into an FX Z System.

The persisting barrier to buying any of the key features in flagship Z9 Performance ceiling costs $3500 at minimum. Previously, the D500 accessed D5 flagship features for much less
Going from entry level to mid range is not the same thing as going from entry level to almost flagship or at the very least super high end full frame. How come we still need to explain things out loud for matters as simple as that?
The Z90 - Z500 - is the missing DX camera to drop the entry ceiling to affordable Z9 features: specifically AF, High RAW fps with PreCapture, blackout EVF....

Many of these issues were discussed 3 months ago

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67557847
Yes, and I find Hogan’s response to Eric’s excellent post amusingly devastating.
 
It's not cheaperthan selling Nikon lenses and cameras and buy let's say a $1500 Canon EOS R7.

You guys tend to forget we're talking about mid range cameras here, and you're suggesting buying a 4000 USD body with the super expensive lenses to go with it.

If OP wanted to go up in the class of camera,s I think he would have done it, don't you think?
You would get a massive AF upgrade.
unrelated, you also get a massive AF upgrade by getting a Sony A6700 or Canon R7
Which is what I already suggested to do upthread.
 
The point of the Z90 or the "D500 successor" was always to provide the top of the line AF and reach at a lower price.

When the D850 was $3300 and a D5 was $6500, the D500 was $2000.
100% correct

With the D500 capping the trio of DX options, with a D7200 the more affordable DX option, or an even cheaper entry D5*00
The thing here is "is an high end APS-C Nikon is going to be released?" Not "should I buy a Z8?". Pretty sure if OP had the budget to drop $4000 on one he would have already. Saying "just upgrade to a twice as expensive full frame camera" is NOT an answer, no matter how many of you think it is.
Nikon currently has 3 DX cameras to buy into the Z System:

Zfc

Z50

Z30

The Z5 and Zf are the entry into an FX Z System.

The persisting barrier to buying any of the key features in flagship Z9 Performance ceiling costs $3500 at minimum. Previously, the D500 accessed D5 flagship features for much less
Going from entry level to mid range is not the same thing as going from entry level to almost flagship or at the very least super high end full frame. How come we still need to explain things out loud for matters as simple as that?
The Z90 - Z500 - is the missing DX camera to drop the entry ceiling to affordable Z9 features: specifically AF, High RAW fps with PreCapture, blackout EVF....

Many of these issues were discussed 3 months ago

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67557847
Yes, and I find Hogan’s response to Eric’s excellent post amusingly devastating.
The follow on discussion we exchanged on a DX stacked-sensor underscores whether it is Nay or Yay on Z90 aka D500 equivalent to sell repackaged Z9 AF with Zero blackout in a DX mirrorless at more affordable price than the Z8.

Selling a minimum of 100K units is probably the make or break threshold.

In other words what is the Lowest RRP at which Nikon will be able to repackage Z9 Technology in an Enthusiast MILC?
 
Whether we get a D500 replacement depends on how fast Nikon wants to release the Z9ii and bring in EXPEED8. Then there's also if and when Nikon gives us a literal mirrorless D500, a 10 fps 20MP camera with EXPEED7 camera that's a bit nicer to hold than the Z50, how many of us are going to go "that's not my mirrorless D500".
If they do come out with a Z90 / D500 type cropped frame camera, there are a lot of people on this forum that better buy 2!
I would not be surprised if those users moved onto the OM1, OM5, G9 II, XT4, XT5, XS10, XS20, XH2, XH2S, A6100, A6400, A6600, A6700, R10, R7... any cameras am I missing which has features the Z50 doesn't have?

The Z50 is.. yeah, a good body (I own one), but I fail to see why I should recommend the Nikon Z DX unless that person has really good glass. Everyone is offers a more comprehensive ecosystem than Nikon.

--
I like cameras, they're fun.
 
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The point of the Z90 or the "D500 successor" was always to provide the top of the line AF and reach at a lower price.

When the D850 was $3300 and a D5 was $6500, the D500 was $2000.
100% correct

With the D500 capping the trio of DX options, with a D7200 the more affordable DX option, or an even cheaper entry D5*00
The thing here is "is an high end APS-C Nikon is going to be released?" Not "should I buy a Z8?". Pretty sure if OP had the budget to drop $4000 on one he would have already. Saying "just upgrade to a twice as expensive full frame camera" is NOT an answer, no matter how many of you think it is.
Nikon currently has 3 DX cameras to buy into the Z System:

Zfc

Z50

Z30

The Z5 and Zf are the entry into an FX Z System.

The persisting barrier to buying any of the key features in flagship Z9 Performance ceiling costs $3500 at minimum. Previously, the D500 accessed D5 flagship features for much less
Going from entry level to mid range is not the same thing as going from entry level to almost flagship or at the very least super high end full frame. How come we still need to explain things out loud for matters as simple as that?
The Z90 - Z500 - is the missing DX camera to drop the entry ceiling to affordable Z9 features: specifically AF, High RAW fps with PreCapture, blackout EVF....

Many of these issues were discussed 3 months ago

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67557847
Yes, and I find Hogan’s response to Eric’s excellent post amusingly devastating.
The follow on discussion we exchanged on a DX stacked-sensor underscores whether it is Nay or Yay on Z90 aka D500 equivalent to sell repackaged Z9 AF with Zero blackout in a DX mirrorless at more affordable price than the Z8.

Selling a minimum of 100K units is probably the make or break threshold.

In other words what is the Lowest RRP at which Nikon will be able to repackage Z9 Technology in an Enthusiast MILC?
I continued reading through that exchange as well, and took note of the 50k units/yr for 2 years minimum requirement for what would be as well-argued a single-use sensor development - a very high bar. The D500 used a new sensor, but it was reused 4 times thereafter. That would not happen in today’s market. For context, 50,000 units is 12.5% of Nikon’s total unit sales last fiscal year. That’s a huge fraction for a single $2500 DX body. Given that D500 sales were strong for just the initial few months and then collapsed - in part due to hapless marketing - suggesting (to me) that the bulk of the market might have just been d300 replacements, even with the relative strength of DX in 2016 compared to today - that’s a very high bar indeed for a Z90.
 
Excuse me for wanting what I want, and not what Nikon's bean counters think would be most profitable. What do I know anyway? I'm just a customer standing here with money in hand...
Yes it’s quite amazing to see the responses from those owning a Z9, Z8, or a Zf to those who are waiting for Nikon to update the other bodies. It’s as if those who are content owning the only three new Nikon bodies are hoping to keep it at that three body lineup.
As they say, “just get a Z8” :-|
The consensus here seems to be that the Z90 isn't happening - in fact there will never be another new DX camera. That just seems weird to me.
And like I said earlier: paying $3200 to end up with fewer pixels than I have now is not a compelling upgrade. Surely there are some people at Nikon who agree.
Considering all the other benefits of a Z8 vs a Z50, the couple of pixels argument seems a little weak
$800usd vs $3500 USD is the biggest argument.

I'd love a d500 mirrorless but would be equally happy with d7xxx replacement also, would only have to match the Canon R7. I don't think it's to much ask really..
You think a Z90 will be priced at $800?
 
Excuse me for wanting what I want, and not what Nikon's bean counters think would be most profitable. What do I know anyway? I'm just a customer standing here with money in hand...
Yes it’s quite amazing to see the responses from those owning a Z9, Z8, or a Zf to those who are waiting for Nikon to update the other bodies. It’s as if those who are content owning the only three new Nikon bodies are hoping to keep it at that three body lineup.
As they say, “just get a Z8” :-|
The consensus here seems to be that the Z90 isn't happening - in fact there will never be another new DX camera. That just seems weird to me.
And like I said earlier: paying $3200 to end up with fewer pixels than I have now is not a compelling upgrade. Surely there are some people at Nikon who agree.
Considering all the other benefits of a Z8 vs a Z50, the couple of pixels argument seems a little weak
$800usd vs $3500 USD is the biggest argument.

I'd love a d500 mirrorless but would be equally happy with d7xxx replacement also, would only have to match the Canon R7. I don't think it's to much ask really..
The Z50 is a D7xxx replacement. A Z-mount D500 equivalent - if Nikon were to develop one - would be priced closer to $2,500 and be worth every penny. That's a thousand less than the Z8 at current pricing.

A kilobuck isn't chump change. It's a significant cost savings. But spending the extra $1K does open the door to higher performance thresholds in noise, resolution and image quality that some find worth the investment.

Given the history of the D300/D500 and the current state of the dedicated digital still imaging market, anyone who continues waiting for a Z900 is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The rock is if - and it's a big one - Nikon develops and releases such a beast, history tells us 8 or 9 years may pass before they'll update or even refreshes it. Early D300 adopters spent a handful of years bemoaning Nikon's weak attempts to roll out so-called replacements. (I'm lookin' at you, D7xxx series.) Many had moved on to other platforms by the time the D500 made it's unexpected appearance in January 2016.

The hard place is that we know Nikon won't develop any APS-C glass for such a body; at least, none that allows a user to take full advantage of its potential in the worlds of sports, wildlife, and fast action. Right now this minute, Nikon offers the best selection of lenses for those genres of any manufacturer...along with camera bodies that can take full advantage of their potential.

Z900 (or Z90 or whatever Nikon would call it) buyers already know which lens or lenses they'd pair with it. That cost is known. The question is this: is $1,000 in savings vs. a Z8 enough to continue waiting a year - probably longer - to make a purchase?

The answer may be, yes. That's a totally legitimate position to take. Suppose that year becomes two, or three...or never? That kilobuck gets smaller v every day. What are the options among offerings by other brands? I personally find that landscape pretty weak.

The X-H2S arguably comes closest to matching what we envision a Z900 to be. The gotcha with that body is that Fujifilm's native X-mount lens selection for wildlife and birds is limited precisely to one lens: the 150-600mm f/5.6-8. While sharp and relatively portable, it's not very good in low light. It's 75mm diameter entrance pupil is the smallest of any major brand.

Canon has the R7, which is clearly a step below what a Z900 would be in performance. Candidly, the Canon lens lineup isn't compelling. The 200-800mm f6.3-9 is interesting but, again, not a top low-light contender. It's 89mm entrance pupil matches the 200-500's. That's not bad but it's also not something that should compel a person to switch brands.

Sony is, well...Sony. You couldn't pay me enough to commit to that system. That's a personal thing. More objectively, they've got one lens (200-600mm f/5.6-8) that's very good. It's at least the equal of the Nikkor 180-600. But Sony doesn't and won't have a 400mm f/4.5, a 600mm PF or 800mm PF anytime soon...if ever.

Sure, there are third party lenses that can be paired with competitor's bodies. But why invest in a system only to put third party glass on it? It's the glass that matters and Nikon's got the glass. They've also got a full-frame option that's within reach. It's a steeper price to pay, no doubt.

But it's right there.
 

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