I wouldn't read anything into the preciseness or such language given it's just a rumoured spec likely passed from hand to hand. No doubt the truth will come out very soon.If it’s a stacked sensor he would have used “堆栈式” which is the term for stacked.
From the Nikon CN Z9 product page.
So it’s just a fast “normal” sensor. Maybe Nikon being a follower also means they can learn from the mistakes by Sony and Canon.
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Z6 III now rumoured to be the "high speed" model coming in Q1 2024
- Thread starter nightowlnz
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Mackiesback
Forum Pro
OK, gonna get a little nitpicky here. Apologies in advance.All valid points.
Canon upped their MP count in part due to poor receipt of their initial 20mp R6 offering… certainly not enough for me, but half the influencers out there tried to convince themselves and us that it didn’t make a huge difference… that depends on the user. 24 is not enough for me now on FF. 26mp on ASPC (Fuji) can be as getting out to 1200mm on ASPC is not that challenging.
My hope for a higher MP Sensor for the Z6iii is two-fold, one (selfishly) I would like it, and most likely won’t leave my A7IV for less, secondly, it would future proof the platform better and draw newer users. Especially in light of an A7V which likely will have more than 30mp’s simply because it’s often Sony’s modus operandi. New users could care less of “high ISO performance”, “slow readout”, or “rolling shutter”… they have no idea what it even means. They see “24mp” vs. “30mp”, etc. Of course if Nikon can still keep the $2000 price-point… that did have a big impact on why I bought the Z6II vs. the A7IV initially, it was the lack of glass and poor AF that had my finally trade it for the Sony.
Nikon is doing well, but did not make the top 3 for sales in Japan this year (with ZF sales, that may change for next year).
Both the Z8 and Z9 are phenomenal products, but also both larger than the Z6II, Z7, A7IV, A1, R5, R6ii, all Fuji’s etc. I’m are large guy with a background with large DSLR’s and I would rather not have that large a body now, especially with the size of most Nikon glass (Plus they are $$$$).
The direction Nikon goes will certainly be dependent on who/what their intended target wants. For me as a mostly stills shooter, Hybrid specs are not such a big factor, nor is rolling shutter even. With 6 kids and all our activity and sports related shooting, the 30mp slower readout of the A7iv sensor does everything I need, but I am a Prosumer not a Pro… which seems to be a large segment of the $2k-$2.5k market at the moment.
I wish there were a camera with 40mp, 20mp crop mode, Canon’s menus, Sony’s glass eco-system and customization, Nikon’s build, ergs, and color science, etc. etc..
Amazing to have such choices today. I was revisiting all my D200 photos from Glacier NP last weekend and though 12mp was just fine then, I may have to try enhancing the resolution on a few.
There is less and less uniquely compelling about the Sony eco-system with 3rd Party glass expanding to Z, Godox now available for Z, etc. Nikon needs to nail this particular camera, it’s similar to what the Civic is to Honda and fewer people are going to jump into a Z8/9. I thought the ZF was pure genius on Nikon’s part. Show the world they are hip and test out the Z6III AF System simultaneously.
1. There have been no credible rumors from anywhere that the Z6iii would be a 30+ MP camera. It's all wishful thinking forum speak. They can use the Z7 for that.
2. Why do sales "in Japan" always seem to come up? This is a global product for a global market and Japan is a unique market in terms of buying trends. I don't find their sales very relevant at all thinking on a global scale. Nikon is in the top three globally.
3. "New users"....LOL. What are those? Do new users spend $2500 for a camera these days and NOT know what high ISO performance is? I kinda doubt that.
4. In terms of sales, the Accord has been Honda's best seller for decades, only recently taken over by the CRV. I believe the Z6ii properly executed would be Nikon's best seller.
Unfortunately, at least from a resolution standpoint, I don't think the new Z6 will be the camera you want. Hopefully they will do something creative with the Z7 that would better suit what you are looking for. I am sure you are not alone in your quest.
Cheers!
So you believe that the impressively fast sensors (being a non stacked desing) found in the R5, R8 and R6 II are "mistakes"? And would even put them on the same level as Sony with their much slower sensors? Alright, let me fetch some popcorn.If it’s a stacked sensor he would have used “堆栈式” which is the term for stacked.
From the Nikon CN Z9 product page.
So it’s just a fast “normal” sensor. Maybe Nikon being a follower also means they can learn from the mistakes by Sony and Canon.
Or what would you consider a "mistake" in a camera like the R6 II? The R6 II was released in 2022 btw, so quite old already, by the time the Z6 III will be finally available the R6 III might be around the corner. :-D
Handiworks
Senior Member
”Nitpicky” appreciated, thanks for the warning ;D.OK, gonna get a little nitpicky here. Apologies in advance.All valid points.
Canon upped their MP count in part due to poor receipt of their initial 20mp R6 offering… certainly not enough for me, but half the influencers out there tried to convince themselves and us that it didn’t make a huge difference… that depends on the user. 24 is not enough for me now on FF. 26mp on ASPC (Fuji) can be as getting out to 1200mm on ASPC is not that challenging.
My hope for a higher MP Sensor for the Z6iii is two-fold, one (selfishly) I would like it, and most likely won’t leave my A7IV for less, secondly, it would future proof the platform better and draw newer users. Especially in light of an A7V which likely will have more than 30mp’s simply because it’s often Sony’s modus operandi. New users could care less of “high ISO performance”, “slow readout”, or “rolling shutter”… they have no idea what it even means. They see “24mp” vs. “30mp”, etc. Of course if Nikon can still keep the $2000 price-point… that did have a big impact on why I bought the Z6II vs. the A7IV initially, it was the lack of glass and poor AF that had my finally trade it for the Sony.
Nikon is doing well, but did not make the top 3 for sales in Japan this year (with ZF sales, that may change for next year).
Both the Z8 and Z9 are phenomenal products, but also both larger than the Z6II, Z7, A7IV, A1, R5, R6ii, all Fuji’s etc. I’m are large guy with a background with large DSLR’s and I would rather not have that large a body now, especially with the size of most Nikon glass (Plus they are $$$$).
The direction Nikon goes will certainly be dependent on who/what their intended target wants. For me as a mostly stills shooter, Hybrid specs are not such a big factor, nor is rolling shutter even. With 6 kids and all our activity and sports related shooting, the 30mp slower readout of the A7iv sensor does everything I need, but I am a Prosumer not a Pro… which seems to be a large segment of the $2k-$2.5k market at the moment.
I wish there were a camera with 40mp, 20mp crop mode, Canon’s menus, Sony’s glass eco-system and customization, Nikon’s build, ergs, and color science, etc. etc.
Amazing to have such choices today. I was revisiting all my D200 photos from Glacier NP last weekend and though 12mp was just fine then, I may have to try enhancing the resolution on a few.
There is less and less uniquely compelling about the Sony eco-system with 3rd Party glass expanding to Z, Godox now available for Z, etc. Nikon needs to nail this particular camera, it’s similar to what the Civic is to Honda and fewer people are going to jump into a Z8/9. I thought the ZF was pure genius on Nikon’s part. Show the world they are hip and test out the Z6III AF System simultaneously.
True, again, this is just my personal wish.
From my perspective, because Japan is Nikon’s home-turf. Nikon is perhaps the most Japanese-minded of all the major Japanese photography-centered company’s. Having been to Japan a dozen times, I see it in their marketing, stratagem, corporate demeanor (I’m certainly no expert though). I take into account the same backdrop when working with clients from different regions or even States here in the US. It’s just a factoring agent, but very interesting that Olympus is #3 in Japan (If Olympus were #3 at BH Photo, American companies would take notice).
Agreed,,, and I’d rather it be a CRV!
I hope Nikon doesn’t take into account any of my thoughts, there are far sharper individuals out there for them to consult with lol. Again, all 1st world “problems”, it’s great to have such great choices. I sold all my DSLR kit back when the Z7, A7III, and R1 hit the stores to see where it would be best to invest, it’s been cool watching the landscape reel from the mirrorless mafia’s flipping everything on it’s head. AI may do the same… I may have to get back into film lol.
Realistically, a stacked sensor with 2.5ms readout would be a bit over the top for a $2500ish camera.If it’s a stacked sensor he would have used “堆栈式” which is the term for stacked.
From the Nikon CN Z9 product page.
So it’s just a fast “normal” sensor. Maybe Nikon being a follower also means they can learn from the mistakes by Sony and Canon.
Something in line with the R6II or a bit faster is probably more likely, and would be fine and below 10ms would be fantastic.
A faster readout will probably be beneficial for AF speed/accuracy as well.
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Yea of course nothing's official until it's official. When signs are saying it's not a stacked sensor, I'd like to believe it's not, until proven otherwise. It's not hard to accelerate the old Z6 sensor. It was hella slow.I wouldn't read anything into the preciseness or such language given it's just a rumoured spec likely passed from hand to hand. No doubt the truth will come out very soon.If it’s a stacked sensor he would have used “堆栈式” which is the term for stacked.
From the Nikon CN Z9 product page.
So it’s just a fast “normal” sensor. Maybe Nikon being a follower also means they can learn from the mistakes by Sony and Canon.
LTheWafflePWN
Senior Member
I agree that the Z6/Z6ii sensor readout left a lot to be desired. I'll admit though that part of me just wants this sensor to be actually new, or 'stacked' instead of unstacked BSI.Yea of course nothing's official until it's official. When signs are saying it's not a stacked sensor, I'd like to believe it's not, until proven otherwise. It's not hard to accelerate the old Z6 sensor. It was hella slow.I wouldn't read anything into the preciseness or such language given it's just a rumoured spec likely passed from hand to hand. No doubt the truth will come out very soon.If it’s a stacked sensor he would have used “堆栈式” which is the term for stacked.
From the Nikon CN Z9 product page.
So it’s just a fast “normal” sensor. Maybe Nikon being a follower also means they can learn from the mistakes by Sony and Canon.
If the readout is similar/comparable to the R6II, a camera from 2022... then I guess I'm missing the killer feature than makes this camera better or more innovative than the competition. We're all assuming this camera comes out this year (2024), and I think it's been hinted at a number of times now that it's staying in the 24MP range (not 30+MP), so it doesn't compete in that category against the A7IV (2021), and with Sony's every 3-4 year cycle the A7V is bound to be out this year or next.....
I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around why someone would buy this camera over an R6II or A7IV, with the rumored specs as they are. I mean everything looks a little better than the Z6ii, but is that the only bar that's being cleared?
Not trying to be overly negative or derogatory, but I too believe the Z6_ line is a very, very important line for Nikon. Say this gets released 2024 and is competitive (but not necessarily better than) the R6II and A7IV, but then the A7V and/or R6III comes out 2025, aren't we right back to where we started (wishing a Z6ii compared better against the R6ii and A7IV[V])?
D
Dibyendu Majumdar
Guest
A few posts below that guy said Z6 III was 33MP?
I agree that the Z6/Z6ii sensor readout left a lot to be desired. I'll admit though that part of me just wants this sensor to be actually new, or 'stacked' instead of unstacked BSI.Yea of course nothing's official until it's official. When signs are saying it's not a stacked sensor, I'd like to believe it's not, until proven otherwise. It's not hard to accelerate the old Z6 sensor. It was hella slow.I wouldn't read anything into the preciseness or such language given it's just a rumoured spec likely passed from hand to hand. No doubt the truth will come out very soon.If it’s a stacked sensor he would have used “堆栈式” which is the term for stacked.
From the Nikon CN Z9 product page.
So it’s just a fast “normal” sensor. Maybe Nikon being a follower also means they can learn from the mistakes by Sony and Canon.
If the readout is similar/comparable to the R6II, a camera from 2022... then I guess I'm missing the killer feature than makes this camera better or more innovative than the competition. We're all assuming this camera comes out this year (2024), and I think it's been hinted at a number of times now that it's staying in the 24MP range (not 30+MP), so it doesn't compete in that category against the A7IV (2021), and with Sony's every 3-4 year cycle the A7V is bound to be out this year or next.....
I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around why someone would buy this camera over an R6II or A7IV, with the rumored specs as they are. I mean everything looks a little better than the Z6ii, but is that the only bar that's being cleared?
Not trying to be overly negative or derogatory, but I too believe the Z6_ line is a very, very important line for Nikon. Say this gets released 2024 and is competitive (but not necessarily better than) the R6II and A7IV, but then the A7V and/or R6III comes out 2025, aren't we right back to where we started (wishing a Z6ii compared better against the R6ii and A7IV[V])?
Supposedly people with Nikon lenses who want to upgrade their Z6 or Z6ii. If they are still in the Nikon camp, they will be happy with anything closer to R6ii performance...
Nikon won't make a Z6iii with better specs than Z8, but at 10ms readout it will still be better than R6ii, if they can get there...not so sure about that.
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Handiworks
Senior Member
My sentiments precisely. I’d like to see Nikon ahead of the “curve”.
Mackiesback
Forum Pro
Maybe someone already in the Nikon ecosystem looking to upgrade to a more capable camera? We saw excellent sales of the Zf based mostly on the fact that finally we have something more capable than the 5 year old Z6. Imagine a Z6iii even more capable than that, regardless of what Canon does.I agree that the Z6/Z6ii sensor readout left a lot to be desired. I'll admit though that part of me just wants this sensor to be actually new, or 'stacked' instead of unstacked BSI.Yea of course nothing's official until it's official. When signs are saying it's not a stacked sensor, I'd like to believe it's not, until proven otherwise. It's not hard to accelerate the old Z6 sensor. It was hella slow.I wouldn't read anything into the preciseness or such language given it's just a rumoured spec likely passed from hand to hand. No doubt the truth will come out very soon.If it’s a stacked sensor he would have used “堆栈式” which is the term for stacked.
From the Nikon CN Z9 product page.
So it’s just a fast “normal” sensor. Maybe Nikon being a follower also means they can learn from the mistakes by Sony and Canon.
If the readout is similar/comparable to the R6II, a camera from 2022... then I guess I'm missing the killer feature than makes this camera better or more innovative than the competition. We're all assuming this camera comes out this year (2024), and I think it's been hinted at a number of times now that it's staying in the 24MP range (not 30+MP), so it doesn't compete in that category against the A7IV (2021), and with Sony's every 3-4 year cycle the A7V is bound to be out this year or next.....
I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around why someone would buy this camera over an R6II or A7IV, with the rumored specs as they are. I mean everything looks a little better than the Z6ii, but is that the only bar that's being cleared?
I guess if the goal is simply measuring stats, we will just run through this cycle repeatedly. I don't think Nikon needs to have a couple extra MPs or a couple extra frames per second or you get the point to be competitive in this class, and just maybe simply being competitive is plenty good enough. Nikon has loyal customers for many reasons. Some say ergonomics, some say the files and their colors, some say the fantastic lenses, and they are all here even suffering through class trailing AF, imagine what being competitive in all categories will bring.
I imagine less than 1% of Nikon shooters run to other brands chasing specs, or would hold off buying a new competitive Z6iii based on what Sony or Canon might do later this year or next.
I don't think Nikon needs a camera in this category to be class leading with a 2 year cushion. I think they can experience growth by simply having a competitive camera in this class simply because they never had one before.
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LTheWafflePWN
Senior Member
I suppose that's fair enough. If the only bar that Nikon is looking to clear is 'be better than the z6ii', then they're probably going to clear that pretty easily. I mean, the Z6ii cleared the 'better than Z6' bar pretty easily too.
I hear what you're saying, but I don't think this really checks out. The Z6ii is a plenty great camera as it is right now depending on what your metrics are, yet it seems like everyone and their brother is looking forward to getting a new Z6iii. I mean, the Z6ii is competitive in some areas, especially price, but not many seem to be too content with this.
I agree with all of the ancillary reasons you've mentioned about loyalty to Nikon. I personally identify with preferring the ergonomics, Nikon's color profiles are something that I find very easy to work with in post processing, and I do indeed love their lenses. Although I primarily use a Z8 now, I still have and use a Z7ii for a second body. I still think the photos that camera takes are great, its ergonomics are Nikon ergonomics, the Z lenses that camera takes are great, makes it competitive to Nikon shooters. But competitive to R5 shooters? A7RV shooters? I don't think the Z7ii competes against these. The Z8 does and I think the Z8 is all the more compelling for its class leading competitiveness. Not just for Nikon shooters, but for photographers looking to get serious in any system at all.
That's the thing, forget class leading even, I am trying to imagine Nikon being competitive in all categories with a Z6iii, but is putting the Zf in the body of a Z6ii making that happen? Because this is what it looks like is going to happen according to these rumors.
That might be fair. I think it's much more than 1% of shooters that switch between brands over time though, I think market share should point to that.
I object to them 'never' having a competitive camera in this segment, but moving past that; "growth" in terms of attracting new people into the Nikon ecosystem, or "growth" by making Nikon shooters pay Nikon more money by upgrading from Z Dx, Z5 or Z6 cameras? I think Nikon will make money regardless, so that takes care of the latter.
The former then, if the Z6iii is only competitive (but not class leading) against other brands for about a year, that's and then the next 3 or so after that while we wait for a Z6iv the Z6iii lags behind what an R6iii and A7V can do... I'm hesitant to call that a victory.
Ultimately I prefer the higher resolution bodies, so I'm not likely the target audience for the Z6iii in the first place. That could be why I'm not seeing things as you do, honestly. If the current Z6ii shooters are happy with a Zf in a Z6ii body (keeping the Z6ii card slots too), then I suppose its fine and Nikon succeeded in that goal. I'm still not sure that I could really comprehend the release of such a Z6iii though.
Mackiesback
Forum Pro
I am not convinced that is what we will get, TBH. That would be a disappointment to many
Well......autofocus. It become a big thing. They have never fully been there in this segment, and it was pounced on early. These cameras are not for everybody for that sole reason, really.
Well, they will sell plenty to existing Nikon shooters to be sure, and their sold off used equipment could go to people looking to try Nikon at an affordable entry level, potentially.
I have seen people here and elsewhere consider Nikon as well as Canon and Sony, and not choose Nikon because of the autofocus. Being competitive in that one category alone, IMO, will attract that type of people who in the past have chosen other systems because of it. And there seem to be plenty of them. They don't have to be class leading in AF, just have a level where it becomes a non-issue. Don't give people a reason for crossing Nikon off the list, because Nikon holds up more than well in other categories.
As a member firmly in this category, we would like something better than a reskinned Zf. I think that is what we will get. Doesn't have to be cutting edge, but much better than the first two versions.
LTheWafflePWN
Senior Member
Okay, then I think we're on the same page then. Some might disagree, but I think a Zf is already pretty competitive against something like an R6ii or A7IV. If we're all wanting the Z6iii to be better than the Zf, then I think we're all in agreement.
nightowlnz
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Each to their own, I'm currently in this boat as a Fuji user looking to try something else. I have an X-T4 but not warmed to the "retro" controls and want something with a decent grip (I use a SmallRig grip, which helps a bit).
I won't bore everyone with the Fuji options, but I have considered them and have decided they're just not quite enticing me to upgrade. Here in NZ their prices (of cameras and lenses) have also been creeping upwards.
So, considering the full-frame options as you mentioned:
- A7IV: I don't really enjoy the Sony camera experience and ergonomics, technically excellent machines, but just not my cup of tea.
- R6II: almost bought one, pretty much ticks all the boxes for me - but overall prefer Nikon's design and ergonomics, plus Canon's (good) RF glass is quite pricey.
Otherwise, I like the Nikon design and ergonomics, the interface, and lens options where you can still get things like weather sealing without re-mortgaging the house (at least compared to Canon RF).
Ultimately, as I'm in no rush - it seems best to wait and see what form the Z6III will take.
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Not really, if Thom Hogan is correct:
"The Z8 has a stacked image sensor with a 1/270 effective electronic shutter. The Zf is still using the older Z6 image sensor, which is not stacked and has a far slower 1/15 effective electronic shutter."
https://www.zsystemuser.com/nikon-z-system-news-and/one-way-the-zf-is-different.html
1/15 s means 67ms readout speed, which is much slower than R6ii which is reasonably fast at 14ms (Z8/Z9 is only ≈ 4ms).
At 67ms readout speed rolling shutter will be apparent and I wouldn't use Zf:s electronic shutter for action shots as you risk warping and distortion.
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LTheWafflePWN
Senior Member
For the aspect of sheer readout speed, you are correct, the R6ii is faster. However, if you're shooting with the mechanical shutter, the readout isn't necessarily as relevant. Technically the Zf's (and Z6ii's) 14fps mechanical shutter burst rate is better than the R6ii (12 fps mechanical) and the A7IV (10 fps mechanical).
Of course, you'd tell me that the R6ii does 40 fps electronic, and it does so very impressively for not being a stacked sensor. Behind the R6ii is C30 mode on the Zf which allows for 30 fps electronic, but only JPEG (and, likely a lot of warping). The A7IV only does 10 fps no matter what though, and the readout speed of the A7IV is just as slow as the Zf.
Other features that might make the Zf competitive against what's currently on the market are things like the 8 stop IBIS unit with 'focus point VR', and pixel shift, to replace things like the higher resolution of an A7IV or the faster readout of the R6ii. All of the aforementioned cameras "only" do 4k60p video, so they're about all somewhat on par there.
Given the above, I'd still claim the feature-set Zf is competitive to the current R6ii and A7IV, but the Zf didn't come out in 2021 or 2022 like the others. I've come full circle into saying that if a Z6iii was just a reskinned Zf, it might make some current Nikon shooters happy for the immediate future, and while the R6ii and A7IV are still out. But I don't think a reskinned Zf is something I'd be excited to see after an R6iii or A7V, and for the next 3 or so years on Nikon's roster after those releases. I think we're in agreement on that, hopefully.
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NikonBiologist
Leading Member
I agree that the Z6/Z6ii sensor readout left a lot to be desired. I'll admit though that part of me just wants this sensor to be actually new, or 'stacked' instead of unstacked BSI.Yea of course nothing's official until it's official. When signs are saying it's not a stacked sensor, I'd like to believe it's not, until proven otherwise. It's not hard to accelerate the old Z6 sensor. It was hella slow.I wouldn't read anything into the preciseness or such language given it's just a rumoured spec likely passed from hand to hand. No doubt the truth will come out very soon.If it’s a stacked sensor he would have used “堆栈式” which is the term for stacked.
From the Nikon CN Z9 product page.
So it’s just a fast “normal” sensor. Maybe Nikon being a follower also means they can learn from the mistakes by Sony and Canon.
If the readout is similar/comparable to the R6II, a camera from 2022... then I guess I'm missing the killer feature than makes this camera better or more innovative than the competition. We're all assuming this camera comes out this year (2024), and I think it's been hinted at a number of times now that it's staying in the 24MP range (not 30+MP), so it doesn't compete in that category against the A7IV (2021), and with Sony's every 3-4 year cycle the A7V is bound to be out this year or next.....
I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around why someone would buy this camera over an R6II or A7IV, with the rumored specs as they are. I mean everything looks a little better than the Z6ii, but is that the only bar that's being cleared?
Not trying to be overly negative or derogatory, but I too believe the Z6_ line is a very, very important line for Nikon. Say this gets released 2024 and is competitive (but not necessarily better than) the R6II and A7IV, but then the A7V and/or R6III comes out 2025, aren't we right back to where we started (wishing a Z6ii compared better against the R6ii and A7IV[V])?
Supposedly people with Nikon lenses who want to upgrade their Z6 or Z6ii. If they are still in the Nikon camp, they will be happy with anything closer to R6ii performance...
Nikon won't make a Z6iii with better specs than Z8, but at 10ms readout it will still be better than R6ii, if they can get there...not so sure about that.
As an OG z6 user I’d be thrilled with 10ms readout. I wouldn’t expect it to be faster than z8 when it’s $1500 or more less. Dual card slots, improved AF, all the goodies of the zf and faster readout—sign me and many others up.
...without the AF "pod," AF-area lock, pop-up flash, and column of dual function buttons on the back... I don't have a problem with a slightly larger build IF it solves some UI problems. The ZF (and Zfc) is larger than a Z6/Z7, but created more problems changing settings.
I needed a few more Fn buttons on the Z8 as it was. The only simple solution is if we could re-map the multi-function pad as you can with nearly every other camera. Being limited as it is makes it 100% redundant with the joystick too.
I'm more technical than most, and I'm NOT fine with menu diving, dual extended banks, or user modes that don't save key settings.
I also need the monitor to tilt down more than 45 degrees for shooting overhead. I'm flexible on the articulating screen, but it is nice to flip it over for protection as I rarely use it.
The Z50 is still my favorite Z, and I can't wait for that to be updated. The competition's APS-C sensors are still rather dated.
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