This is a follow up to my question about using a Z 7ii or a Z 8 for birds in flight. It sounds like the Z 8, Z 9 is the only option offered by Nikon. Is this the same issue with Sony and Canon? Are only their high-end, very expensive camera bodies capable of capturing reliable shots of birds in flight? For example, does the Sony A7R V, or the Canon EOS R7 have better auto-focus than the Z 7 ii? Is this an issue than can, but won’t, be remedied by a firmware update?
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Nikon auto-focus compared to Sony/Canon
- Thread starter nergsrof
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If you look through the weekly threads you will see MANY good bird photos taken with the non Z8/Z9 Z's, it is just harder with lower hit rates. Lower hit rates than some Nikon DSLR's even. Only you can determine if it is good enough for your needs. There is a good reason they are on sale for hundreds off and have depreciated so much. Which probably got your interest and GAS going.
Even older affordable Canon (R) and Sony ML (A7III and A7C) cameras do better than Expeed6 Z's when it comes to BIF and even basic subject tracking. Nikon's AF-C does not do as well as their DSLR's when subjects aren't moving briefly.
Those of us who purchased the Z6II or Z7II were waiting for firmware 2.0, which wan't officially rumored, or for ANY features to be trickled down from the Z9 for that matter, and they never came. There have been minor improvements, bug fixes, and linear focusing for some lenses.
There are YouTube videos comparing them to other cameras, and even comparing the three major brand's flagships against each other.
wilberforce_1
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The Z 8 or Z 9 are currently the Nikon mirrorless cameras to get for BIF, which is one of the most equipment-challenging types of photography.
A caution about switching brands: it is a bit like switching into a faster lane on a crowded freeway: as soon as you switch lanes, the lane you were previously in speeds up. The brands are continually leap-frogging each other with each camera (and lens) release.
A caution about switching brands: it is a bit like switching into a faster lane on a crowded freeway: as soon as you switch lanes, the lane you were previously in speeds up. The brands are continually leap-frogging each other with each camera (and lens) release.
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Leonard Shepherd
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Apart from the Zf with apparently near Z8 & Z9 AF ability - these are the only bodies which make BIF shots as potentially easy as with the best bodies for BIF from Canon and Sony.
Slightly of topic - most could take portraits before eye AF - or even AF - existed.
The best cameras without good technique tend not to produce outstanding images.
LennyLevino
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The Canon R50 (now $699 with kit lens) has autofocus on par with Z8/Z9. Some people (like Jared Polin) even claim it is better.
nightowlnz
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It’s incredibly unlikely that Nikon can improve the older models AF much more, it’s become evident the new processor plays a large part in the Z8/Z9 performance and it sounds like the Zf performs quite well too. So we’ll just have to wait for the Z6III or whatever comes next to see further improvement.
As others have pointed out Sony and Canon spread their AF tech out across their model range so you don’t necessarily have to buy the most expensive models to get good performance. Nikon is currently lop-sided but should be fixing that soon as they refresh other models.
As others have pointed out Sony and Canon spread their AF tech out across their model range so you don’t necessarily have to buy the most expensive models to get good performance. Nikon is currently lop-sided but should be fixing that soon as they refresh other models.
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Yes. Both Sony and Canon are ahead of Nikon in the AF race, and they introduced their latest processors (Bionz XR and Digic X, respectively) more than a year ahead of Nikon's Expeed7. Both of them have now introduced a wide range of models with the new processors. Nikon has comparable technology in the Expeed7 but it is only in the Z9, Z8, and Zf so far.
However Nikon will be refreshing the rest of their model line over the next year or two, so if you're not in a hurry the Expeed7 will appear across all of Nikon's newest models.
FYI I bought the Canon R7 on release in June 2022 and it does have superior AF to the Expeed6 models. I would prefer to shoot only Nikon but it's unknown if Nikon will ever introduce a comparable advanced APS-C model, so I am glad I bought it when I did.
No. It requires more advanced hardware. The capabilities of the Expeed6 are maxed out at this point.
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This page has direct comparison of many cameras specifically for BiF: https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/best/mirrorless-cameras-for-birds-in-flight/#cameras
Vince P
Veteran Member
The Z7ii is an older camera and is bettered by later designs. It requires a diffent technique but can do pretty well when compared to it's contemporaries and used properly. Mirrorless comparisons carry out objective testing for Bird in flight. The Z7 (Not even mk ii) got more keepers than Canon R5 OM-1 A7RIV and A7III. It was just behind the R6. Not to mention ahead of the D500 DSLR.
The Best Mirrorless Cameras for Birds in Flight Ranked - Mirrorless Comparison
A few years ago, our reader Alfredo suggested an idea for an article. Since we test the autofocus performance of many cameras at the same red kite feeding stations, why not publish a list of all the cameras we use with their keeper rate for birds in flight? I liked ... Read more
mirrorlesscomparison.com
If buying now absolutely the other brands have the edge but I imagine a ZF purely on AF will be the best bang for buck but not otherwise ideal for Wildlife BIF.
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Check out what Morten Hilmer is doing with Z8/Z9
Morten Hilmer
Nature | Wildlife Photography | Adventure | Conservation | Daily Life Nature Lover from Denmark. See you out there... [email protected]
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I have Z6 and D500 and I have used Z7. I can confirm that Z6 and Z7 AF is not on par with D500 for BIF. D500 AF for fast moving objects is much better, not to mention that D500 has some AF oprtions that are not matched in Z6/Z7.
Richard Dutton
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Curious about what BIF actually means since it is often used as an example of the most challenging subject for an AF system.
Sure trying to capture the erratic and fast flight of say swifts or swallows is going to challenge many peoples’ field craft as much as it challenges an AF system. Same goes for flight with a near background of hedges / woods etc.
The other end of the scale is birds flying in straight lines against a clear sky. I used to be able to do that with a film SLR and long MF lenses and I am not now or ever had been a nature photographer.
Sure trying to capture the erratic and fast flight of say swifts or swallows is going to challenge many peoples’ field craft as much as it challenges an AF system. Same goes for flight with a near background of hedges / woods etc.
The other end of the scale is birds flying in straight lines against a clear sky. I used to be able to do that with a film SLR and long MF lenses and I am not now or ever had been a nature photographer.
Vince P
Veteran Member
No offence but if the camera can achieve the results for mirrorless comparisons in controlled objective tests. (Mirrorless comparisons previously had the D500 as their best camera, until the A9) then the camera is not the barrier. I also have had or have all the cameras you mention and the Z7ii is as good if not better for me than D500 but I don't do objective controlled testing so rely on others. I certainly wouldn't presume to confirm based on my use.
However when I first got the Z6 and Z7 I would always take the D850 D500 for fast moving subjects, wildlife BIF as I couldn't get the hang of it. It was only when I came across users who had gone down the same path and came out the other side that I persevered. It took a long time to change the way, I used the AF systems before I realised the Z7 could get the job done just as well just in a completely different way.
I look at it that the Z7ii has different options not fewer.
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It seems that Z cameras are tested with different lenses compared to D500. Performance might vary based on the used lenses alone. On my Z6 and D500 I use exactly the same lenses, with FTZ on Z6 and I do achieve better result with D500 for BIF. Though if I can afford some of the new Z lenses like 100-400 or 180-600 performance of my Z6 can change.
BirdShooter7
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My experience using Nikon and Sony is fairly limited so I’ll hold any comments about them. What I can say is that Canon has surprisingly been very generous when it comes to AF performance across their product line. Inexpensive bodies like the R10, R7 and R8 have comparable AF performance to the pricy R5 and R3. I just wish Canon offered the telephoto options that Nikon is.
areallygrumpyoldsod
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This test had the Z9 with FW 3.0 -- we are now at FW 4.10 which has change the field for Birds/BIF on the Z9.
thisisbenji
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Even if the A7RV has slightly better AF than the Z8, I think my choice for BIF would still be the Z8. AF aside, the A7RV has a max frame rate of 7-10 FPS and still experiences viewfinder black out. It might be precise, but dang is that slow compared to the Z8.
When I jumped from the Z6II to the Z8, the biggest thing that actually made a difference for me was the insane frames per second and lack of view finder blackout.
I see you also mentioned the Canon R7, I think that probably compares more to the Nikon Zf.
When I jumped from the Z6II to the Z8, the biggest thing that actually made a difference for me was the insane frames per second and lack of view finder blackout.
I see you also mentioned the Canon R7, I think that probably compares more to the Nikon Zf.
Paul Pasco
Forum Pro
Yes! That is why it is important to really get to know your equipment's strengths and weaknesses and learn to live with it. Otherwise you are constantly throwing money away.
Umm, right - when last did anyone leapfrog Sony in the autofocus or camera dept. ?
A little bit of wishful thinking perhaps.
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