2023 big year for Fuji?

to carry on the dialing a bit...

John Gellings wrote:

gdanmitchell wrote:

John Gellings wrote:

"Have been using..." is a critical piece here. The important consideration is how many will be using...

When the XPro was the "flagship" camera — remember that? — it was _the_ high end object of desire in the line, and it was the most capable, full-featured camera. If you wanted the best camera that Fujifilm made, you got the XPro1 and, arguably, the XPro2 (though that changed before long).

Well, when the X-Pro1 was released, you had two choices... X100 or X-Pro1. The X-Pro2 was the first of the 24mp models to be released. The X-T model was considered better for some people when released.

Yup. That's part of my point. Before the XT, there was nothing "better" than the XPro. After the XT models took off, Fujifilm began shrinking the scope of the market appeal of the XPro line — rather than targeting at "best camera" buyers, they narrowed it to, more or less, street photographers. (BTW, I am the latter, and that's why I got the XPro2.)

But since that time a lot has changed. Many of us who used to be hesitant about putting all of our eggs in the EVF-only basket felt that the hybrid OVF was pretty important back then... but have now learned that EVF cameras work great.

The appeal of the OVF has diminished radically. In addition, the XPro line has been displaced as the flagship, originally by the XT models and now by the XH2 models. With both of those in the mix, there are even fewer potential buyers for the XPro.

There are still some people who prefer the shape, VF on the side, the design, the feel, etc. AND some people really still like the OVF. Fuji gets this or they would have never made the camera in the first place. Fuji has stated that it is an important camera for them even if it isn't a big seller.

Fair points, but let's look at this a bit since it does not overall contradict my point. Clearly "some people... prefer" the XPro concept still — or else you would not be writing. My point isn't that no one likes it but that the portion of the Fujifilm market that will choose it continues to diminish, and even among those who originally bought it other options look better to more and more of us.

When it comes to the ergonomic stuff, I agree that it is an issue, and I even prefer things like the non-centered VF. (Works well for me as a right-eye dominant person, though less well for left-eye dominant folks.) I'm happy with the appearance of old-school rangefinder-style cameras, though I've used enough different camera types over the decades that I'm just as comfortable with other designs.

Indeeds, "some people really still like the OVF," but again my point was that the number of such folks has declined as the quality of EVF cameras has increased (they are now dominant with the shift to mirrorless) and those who were hesitant (as I was) now regard them as being at least as good as OVFs.

I think that, from a number of perspectives, the XPro concept has been a pretty remarkable one. I still think it is a very well-designed camera. I just think that this design is no longer as compelling to buyers as it once was, and given the high-end competition in the Fujifilm line-up (XT5, XH2, and XH2s) there is less and less of a market for it.

In other words, the market segment to which the XPro appeals has shrunk. A lot.

Maybe, maybe not. I would say Fuji's user base has grown allowing for more models... but the people who prefer the X-Pro series are still interested.

I'm a prime example. I still have the XPro2 that I used for half of my photography since that camera was introduced. But I recently moved from it to the XT5. The only thing I lost was the OVF option. Five years ago, that would have been an issue. Today it is not, and I'm absolutely fine with the EVF-only camera.

Well, yeah, until the X-Pro4 comes and you sell that X-T5.

Not going to happen. I'm not an upgrade-every-new-cycle kind of photographer. I tend to move to new models pretty slowly and deliberately, and not get sucked into the Camera of the Month stuff.

(My other gear is Canon, and I continue to use a DSLR model even though the company switched to mirrorless, and I have no immediate intention to switch.)

Unlike the XPro3, the X100v remains a highly popular niche camera that doesn't compete directly against anything else in the Fujifilm line.

Every single camera Fuji makes competes with its other cameras. That does not mean there will not be an X-Pro4.

Your first statement is true. But your second statement does not make sense. It isn't the fact that the brand's cameras compete against one another, it is the extent to which a model can succeed within the brand's ecosystem and against other brands.

My point is that we may well be in a too-many-models situation at the high end with Fujifilm, and among those cameras the one that is least likely to maintain market success is the XPro. That doesn't mean the XPro is a bad camera (it isn't!) — it is just a logical consideration of how the line-up works.

In any case, what I write and what you write is largely speculative. We'll see what happens. It will be fun to revisit this in a year or so.